You Asked for it, You Got It; .30 Super Carry.

[fxvr5]

I really adore the .327Fed and .32H&R magnum cartridges.
Less powder, less lead, generally less recoil, greater accuracy than .9,.38,.357 handguns.

Greater accuracy? Based on - - - ?

 

[Old_Grouch]

There seems to be a belief that this .30 Super is going to be put into small LCP size pistols and I do not see that happening,

I don't see it happening either. The COL is the same as the 9mm. If 9mm won't fit neither will the .30
It can be narrower than the micro 9s but there would be no point to that. A small fraction of an inch narrower with the same capacity as the 9s would push it well into "who cares" territory.
I'm certain that this isn't meant to compete with .380/.32 pocket guns. It's far more likely to be marketed as higher capacity just as effective competitor to P365/Shield+ class of guns.

 

[Kleanbore]

When the .327 Federal Magnum came out, I was very enamored with the idea. I knew nothing about self defense, and I put too much importance on kinetic energy.

One of our long term members, now deceased, was far less than enthused. Nothing but a .32-20, he said, and no one would want to shoot .30 Carbine ammo in a pocket gun. I took a different route.

Our member GEM has one, and he prefers to shoot .32 H&R ammo in it.

This new one is not for me.

I carry a 9mm, but the .45 ACP is better in terms of sound pressure. I would not underestimate the importance of sound pressure.

 

[fxvr5]

I would not underestimate the importance of sound pressure.

The importance of sound pressure . . . in what?

 

[Jack Ryan]

I've been reading and hearing for a year or more about people wanting 9mm, 357, 44's, 223, 22's and just about EVERYTHING ELSE.

Never heard a peep from any one ASKING for another dinky under powered pocket gun and over priced ammo just for it.

 

[Ascot500]

Is the case straight walled or tapered?
Straight walled is better for us reloaders.

 

[mgmorden]

Is the case straight walled or tapered?
Straight walled is better for us reloaders.

From the posted diagram it looks to have a slight taper similar to the 9mm. I know that 9mm carbide dies basically just resize to the smallest diameter which is what I'd guess dies for this cartridge would do too.

 

[Walkalong]

…….One of our long term members, now deceased, was far less than enthused. Nothing but a .32-20, he said, and no one would want to shoot .30 Carbine ammo in a pocket gun. ….. .

Amen to that, and as someone has already posted, 50K PSI from a short barrel is going to be brutal

 

[BreechFace]

30 Carbine out of a Blackhawk is something to be witnessed at 40k psi, and that's only 5k psi more than 357 magnum.

In regards to the "30 Super Carry" we are talking 30% more pressure than a 357 magnum.

The more I think about and contemplate this round it makes less and less sense out of a handgun.

 

[Old_Grouch]

Chamber pressure in itself is irrelevant as long as the the barrel is built to sufficiently to contain it. .38 Special operates at 17,000 psi. .45 Colt at 14,000, The 17 HMR has a max of 26,000.
Certainly no one would claim that either the recoil or noise from the .17 is greater than that of the .38 or .45.

 

[fxvr5]

Revolvers have that nasty gap between the cylinder and barrel. That's where the pressure will be highest, because pressure peaks after the bullet has traveled about 1/2 inch. Pressure from the muzzle will be much lower.

Semi-autos don't have that pesky gap. Pressure has dropped considerably by the time the bullet exits the muzzle.

 

[Old_Grouch]

A Ruger MK IV shooting a .22 LR at 21,000 psi doesn't have the same recoil as a 1911 shooting a .45 ACP at 21,000 psi. No gap in either.
A S&W Model 63 (.22 LR) doesn't have more recoil than a Model 60 (.38 Spl) despite having nearly 25% higher chamber pressure.

Here's the link I posted earlier to a recoil calculator: https://shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

Here's the actual formula: E = 1/2 (Wg / 32.17) (Wb x MV + 4700 x Wp / 7000 x Wg)squared.
Where E = recoil Energy in ft. lbs., Wg = Weight of gun in pounds, Wb = Weight of bullet in grains, MV = Muzzle Velocity of bullet in feet-per-second, Wp = Weight of powder in grains. (the 4700 is the escape velocity of the powder gasses, 32.17 is the gravitational constant, and the 7000 is to make the answer come out in foot pounds and not grains)

Note that neither takes chamber pressure into account.

 

[BreechFace]

Chamber pressure in itself is irrelevant as long as the the barrel is built to sufficiently to contain it. .38 Special operates at 17,000 psi. .45 Colt at 14,000, The 17 HMR has a max of 26,000.
Certainly no one would claim that either the recoil or noise from the .17 is greater than that of the .38 or .45.

I would be willing to wager that an equal barrel length for each of the cartridges that the 17HMR will hurt your ears worse than a .38 or 45acp

my thoughts against the 30 Super Carry are not from a recoil standpoint but from a pressure hearing standpoint.

 

[reddog81]

If this had come out 5 years ago I could see interest, but the current crop micro 9mm's will be tough competition. I have a Sig P365 with 10, 12, 15 round magazines. It's tough to imagine a realistic scenario where I'd need more ammo. The grip on the Sig is small and on the verge of being too small. I don't need a smaller grip. And I certainly don't want something that has impossible to find ammo and is going to blast my eardrums if shot.

I predict a quick and relatively painless demise.

 

[Old_Grouch]

my thoughts against the 30 Super Carry are not from a recoil standpoint but from a pressure hearing standpoint.

That's certainly a valid concern.

 

[fxvr5]

here's some numbers from QuickLOAD

357 magnum, 158 grain Hor, JHP, H110 16.0 gr
Peak chamber pressure = 31,451 psi
muzzle pressure:
2" barrel = 23,714 psi
5" barrel = 9,586 psi
6” barrel = 7,900 psi

327 Federal, 100 grain Hor, JHP, A#9 11.8 gr
Peak chamber pressure = 39,978 psi
muzzle pressure:
2" barrel = 28,133 psi
5" barrel = 10,545 psi
6” barrel = 8,571 psi

9X23 Winch. 124 grain Hor, FMJ PF, Silhouette 8.6 gr
Peak chamber pressure = 50,744 psi
muzzle pressure:
2" barrel = 21,163 psi
5" barrel = 5,961 psi

Note that none of these peak chamber pressures are at max SAAMI pressure. The powders were selected based on published data. I had to reduce the 327 Federal charge for A#9 because it showed a excess pressure when at the published load weight of 12.7 gr (Hornady). I increased the 9X23 charge weight a little from the published data (8.4 gr) to start at a somewhat higher pressure, so it was about ~5,000 lower than max, similar to the 327 and 357 data.

These are QL’s predicted pressures. The could be way off, but I set them so the peak chamber pressure was lower than SAAMI max. The pressure estimate drop might be reasonable accurate, but who knows.

Even though the 9X23 starts with a much higher chamber pressure, it has less gas pressure from a 5” barrel than the muzzle of a 6” barrel* with 327 Federal or 357 Magnum.

Bottom line: chamber pressure does not predict muzzle pressure very well. The 30 Super Carry might be quieter compared to the 327 and 357.

* QL is funny with barrel length as it does not account for revolvers. That’s why I include the 6” data for the revolvers. Regardless, people might be exaggerating the noise from the 30 Super Carry. Especially since no one here has fired one.

 

[pairof44sp]

View attachment 1049911

And plenty of ammo is already in full production:

View attachment 1049912

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Federal video:

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Judging by my calculations, with a true double stacked service style full size handgun, you could fit 20 rounds of .30 SC in a flush fit conventional grip size.

In the past handful of years, using a magazine that extends an inch or two from the grip has become mainstream in Law Enforcement and Military circles. I know for a fact the United States Army and United States Air Force are using their new SIG Sauer M17 and M18 pistols with slightly extended 21 round capacity for 9x19mm NATO Luger rounds.

Using the same dimensions, you could stuff approx. 25 rounds into the same OAL magazine if utilizing .30 SC. The handgun would still not be unwieldy for uniformed or civilian open carry, yet capacity would be just excellent.

Ballistics gel results show excellent promise, with expansion diameters and penetration depths largely mimicking many standard pressure established 9x19mm NATO Luger duty loads, and the on-paper ballistics are quite impressive. Recoil is stated to be nicely controllable.

With service calibered handguns, controllability and getting more rounds on target as well as overall magazine capacity absolutely win the day. .30 SC looks 100% capable and highly effective, just as much as any other service caliber, and with the quicker recovery times and increased firepower it can allow exceptionally efficient shot placement and you can stay in the fight longer before having to reload.

If an outfit such as Glock, or SIG, releases a full-sized duty variant with the magazine capacities I mentioned (thereabouts) I would absolutely buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[mcb]

Federal video:

That video made me less likely not more likely to own this cartridge (an I like weird cartridges). That was a pretty bad promotional video IMHO.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

That video made me less likely not more likely to own this cartridge (an I like weird cartridges). That was a pretty bad promotional video IMHO.

I’ll kind of agree. The whole nonsense about police and military rounds being different for civilians etc. was just that, nonsense. Yet, I believe this cartridge itself holds great promise and it will be exciting to see how pricing and availability of rounds pans out as well as the offerings offered by the various manufacturers of firearms both in the United States of America as well as the greater world at large in general.

 

[Old_Grouch]

I'm certainly less interested than before seeing the video. Ballistically I'm sure it's fine but a 20% increase in mag capacity just doesn't impress me enough to take on another caliber.

 

[Walkalong]

Chamber pressure in itself is irrelevant as long as the the barrel is built to sufficiently to contain it.

Not when it comes to muzzle blast and noise level. I'd hate to shoot one inside without ear protection in a self defense situation.

 

[Old_Grouch]

Not when it comes to muzzle blast and noise level. I'd hate to shoot one inside without ear protection in a self defense situation.

I would hate to also, but my statement was "Chamber pressure in itself is irrelevant". A .22 LR has the same chamber pressure as a .45 ACP, but doesn't make the same boom. Why? Because there's a big difference in volume of gas produced. i.e. a factor besides pressure.
Ten sticks of dynamite make more noise than one.

 

[Kleanbore]

I would hate to also, but my statement was "Chamber pressure in itself is irrelevant". A .22 LR has the same chamber pressure as a .45 ACP, but doesn't make the same boom. Why? Because there's a big difference in volume of gas produced. i.e. a factor besides pressure.
Ten sticks of dynamite make more noise than one.

Excellent points--you beat me to it.

 

[zaitcev]

The most interesting outcome for me personally is the opportunity to make grips potentially slimmer by 10% (cartridge is 11% thinner, but of course the grip material stays the same). Although all the reviewers low-key it, the grips of the new double-stack micro-compacts are just a little thicker than those of the single stacks that they displaced. This is especially obvious when you compare Shield and Shield Plus. Now it's an opportunity to return to the old grip dimensions of Shield.

In addition... Unlike the 9mm, the bullets are always blunt. This opens an opportunity for a cutest little lever gun that Marlin can make under the new ownership. I know it's a crazy idea, but wouldn't that be cool?