Is Federal’s New 30 Super Carry a 32 ACP Magnum?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jesus Christ . . .

see posts 37 and 39 in this thread.

You mean this?

https://blogger.googleusercontent.c...FkeKusv-C784W2qfv8GXtSDsDL3QwhQhUONofVKw=s596


Ballistics:

9mm;
103 grain at 1340 fps
115 grain at 1180 fps

30SC;
100 grain at 1350 fps
115 grain at 1160 fps

Who's data is that exactly, because Federal is claiming (as I said) a 100gr 30 SC at 1250fps. Not 1350fps.

What ammunition specifically does the data in the table represent?
 
Last edited:
According to defensive pundits, the argument has been that .45/.40/9mm all have essentially the same terminal performance, so the 9mm wins based on capacity and controllability. If the pundits are intellectually honest, the same argument could be applied to the .30 SC if the claims of similar terminal effectiveness are validated. That what makes this interesting from a bystander role.

Capacity, controllability, and price/availability for practice. The new round may best 9mm slightly in capacity, break even in controllability, but it will most likely be more expensive and harder to find, as well as now being far behind 9mm in the number of options available. Even 15 years ago there were a lot fewer 9mm guns available, making other cartridges more compelling from a platform point of view. Now there’s that much more “9mm inertia” to overcome in the marketplace, plus the undeniable fact that 9mm is (right now) the only pistol cartridge even remotely available and affordable.
 
Jesus Christ . . .

see posts 37 and 39 in this thread.

According to the only article where someone has actually shot the 30SC in a S&W EZ with a 3.6 inch barrel the 100 grain HST did 1205 FPS and the 115 grain Gold Dot did 1095.

Lucky gunner labs shows 9mm out of a 3.5 inch barrel M&Pc shooting 124 grain HST at 1135 and a 115 Gold Dot at 1143.

So yes, the 30SC will have less recoil.
 
So the main advantage is capacity and they think 10+1will offer them a leg up the most popular 9mm that offer 12+1 or 13+1 offerings. Makes sense…
 
According to the only article where someone has actually shot the 30SC in a S&W EZ with a 3.6 inch barrel the 100 grain HST did 1205 FPS and the 115 grain Gold Dot did 1095.

Lucky gunner labs shows 9mm out of a 3.5 inch barrel M&Pc shooting 124 grain HST at 1135 and a 115 Gold Dot at 1143.

So yes, the 30SC will have less recoil.

I'm happy to be corrected.

I don't know the source of the data I posted except that it originated at that website. And it was the only ballistic data available for a couple of days until other sources were (finally) posted recently. It's good to have more data.
 
Capacity, controllability, and price/availability for practice. The new round may best 9mm slightly in capacity, break even in controllability, but it will most likely be more expensive and harder to find, .

This is why I reload.

Granted, these days are difficult but things should eventually improve and I'd stock up on cases and other components.
 
Random thought:

Assumption: 30 Super Carry meets all the FBI terminal testing requirements. (still to be demonstrated by independent testing)

All the reasons we use to justify 9mm dominance over 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and similar for self defense would be just as valid to justify 30 Super Carry replacing 9mm.

30 Super Carry will have higher capacity, less recoil, and (assuming similar market share as 9mm) be cheaper to buy and reload ammunition for due to less materials being consumed per round.

If it matters I don't own a 9mm and probably wont buy a 30 Super Carry either...
 
All the reasons we use to justify 9mm dominance over 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and similar for self defense would be just as valid to justify 30 Super Carry replacing 9mm.
Yup. Save for one (possibly): military contracts and transfers from old stores to civilian law enforcement make the total cost of ownership for Federal and applicable State agencies of 9mm issue weapons more nearly practical than any new/different cartridge. I am not 100% sure how much DOD goods end up in LEO stores but I have read in the past some administrations encouraged such transfers and other have discouraged it, mostly for political purposes. Now, if the FBI goes with the 30SC, all bets are off.
Anyway, it's a perfectly valid point.
 
Random thought:

Assumption: 30 Super Carry meets all the FBI terminal testing requirements. (still to be demonstrated by independent testing)

All the reasons we use to justify 9mm dominance over 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and similar for self defense would be just as valid to justify 30 Super Carry replacing 9mm.

30 Super Carry will have higher capacity, less recoil, and (assuming similar market share as 9mm) be cheaper to buy and reload ammunition for due to less materials being consumed per round.

If it matters I don't own a 9mm and probably wont buy a 30 Super Carry either...

9mm dominance over 357sig/40s&w is more about logistics than the performance of the cartridge itself. A combination of political factors and cheap practice ammo. All the too much recoil... and faster follow up shots stuff was just people trying to convince themselves into going 9mm useing marketing BS talking points. As good as 45acp is its kind of a dinosaur cartridge now. Any new 45 designed pistol should be based around 45super or hotter +p loads. Then you get better performance while still haveing your 45acp standard load for practice. Cartridge size and capacity is less of an issue these days with polymer frames. It was a bigger factor when designs were metal frames with grip panels screwed on. These days double stack polys are very thin in almost any calliber unless its gat a thick plastic magazine. Some are to thin and people have to put Hogues on them to fill the hand better.

I might go for a 30 super in a smaller scale 1911 or Coonan style gun and someone like Buffalo Bore comes up with a copper round that penetrates better or as good as 7.62x25. If it ends up like 327 federal though I am not interested. Better off just going hot 38 if I want a super round. I have enough guns as is that are hard to find ammo and variety of load for.
 
If anyone wants to sell their obsolete 9mm ammo, I will take one for the team and give you a good price say $0.18/round. Hold your thanks, I'm just doing this out of the goodness of my heart so that you all can put your money towards 30 Super Carry ammo.

It's a big ask of me, I'm not looking for attaboys, but I'm willing to do it.
 
It does bring up the question though… at what point does the size of the hole not matter any more? Extensive research seems to show that .40 and .45 have just about the same effectiveness. People justified stepping down to .35-.36 caliber (9mm) because modern hollowpoints could make up the difference, plus lower recoil which does lead to faster followups and perhaps better subsequent shot placement. Bonus in a little more capacity.

Now we’re talking about stepping down -again- to .312, with another added capacity bonus, and roughly the same recoil. But at some point the terminal effectiveness of a hollow point will have to start shrinking just due to the decrease in bore diameter, right?
 
What do you mean "we" gunboarder?
My sense of the gun boards is of a large majority who think it unnecessary or ineffective plus a substantial minority who think it could be a direct substitute in guns originally for .32 or .380, plus the traditionalists who want nothing in the diameter but a "Modern" 7.62 Tokarev. They are not going to sell many to We Experts.
 
Another random thought:

If 30 Super Carry really takes off we will "need" an AR conversion kit to drop into 300 BO or 308 ARs for conversion to 30 Super Carry. Think like the Ciener kits to convert 223/556 guns to 22 LR but for 30 caliber guns to 30 Super Carry. Given the pressure its going to have to be more sophisticated than a blowback action but given the working pressure f 30 Super Carry the performance should be reasonable good.
 
Another random thought:

If 30 Super Carry really takes off we will "need" an AR conversion kit to drop into 300 BO or 308 ARs for conversion to 30 Super Carry. Think like the Ciener kits to convert 223/556 guns to 22 LR but for 30 caliber guns to 30 Super Carry. Given the pressure its going to have to be more sophisticated than a blowback action but given the working pressure f 30 Super Carry the performance should be reasonable good.

From my unscientific testing yesterday, Glock magazines will work with slightly narrower feed lips and a new follower designed for the 30SC. And if the pressures are the same or close to 9mm then a new barrel and bolt for the current pistol caliber uppers is all that is needed for AR's
 
From my unscientific testing yesterday, Glock magazines will work with slightly narrower feed lips and a new follower designed for the 30SC. And if the pressures are the same or close to 9mm then a new barrel and bolt for the current pistol caliber uppers is all that is needed for AR's

No doubt that will happen but I want conversion kits so I can shoot 30 Super Carry in my existing 300 BO and other existing 30 caliber rifles.

I wonder how obnoxious it would be to put a 51T mount and my SND-6 suppressor on a sub-compact 30 Super Carry handgun... :rofl:
 
From my unscientific testing yesterday, Glock magazines will work with slightly narrower feed lips and a new follower designed for the 30SC. And if the pressures are the same or close to 9mm then a new barrel and bolt for the current pistol caliber uppers is all that is needed for AR's

@mcb is talking about shooting a 30SC through the bore of a 300BLK or 308Win. So it would be similar to the CMMG 22 conversion kits for the 556 where there is a chamber of the rifle case attached to the front of the bolt in this case a 300BLK or 308Win that receives the 30SC cartridge and fires it through the stock 300BLK or 308Win barrel. As @mcb mentions some work would need to be done to handle the increased thrust generated by the 30SC as compared to the relatively simplistic nature of the 22lr conversion bolts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcb
All the too much recoil... and faster follow up shots stuff was just people trying to convince themselves into going 9mm useing marketing BS talking points.
Your basis for that assertion?

BTW, I would not use the term "follow-up shots" in describing repeated hits on target in defensive shooting.
 
It does bring up the question though… at what point does the size of the hole not matter any more? Extensive research seems to show that .40 and .45 have just about the same effectiveness. People justified stepping down to .35-.36 caliber (9mm) because modern hollowpoints could make up the difference, plus lower recoil which does lead to faster followups and perhaps better subsequent shot placement. Bonus in a little more capacity.

Now we’re talking about stepping down -again- to .312, with another added capacity bonus, and roughly the same recoil. But at some point the terminal effectiveness of a hollow point will have to start shrinking just due to the decrease in bore diameter, right?
This is a core question I'm having with this. Every time I've heard the capacity and shot placement argument it doesn't have a floor on diameter. Just meeting the penetration and expansion standards of the FBI. Kind of highlights how ill guided any open ended argument can be and the nuance is important. As a customer base we kind of decided that 5.7mm diameter is too small. I only say kind of because the guns where so dang expensive and a "working man's" priced gun hasn't existed until ammo was difficult to source. The more I think about it the less I want this in a pocket sized gun and the more I want it in something scaled correctly I'd appendix carry. Shaving the fraction of an inch in width might not seem like much but I bet that carry method I'd notice really quickly.
 
My Keltec PMR 30 has twice the capacity, penetrates more and weighs less than the S&W EZ 30SC, it must be better.
 
@mcb is talking about shooting a 30SC through the bore of a 300BLK or 308Win. So it would be similar to the CMMG 22 conversion kits for the 556 where there is a chamber of the rifle case attached to the front of the bolt in this case a 300BLK or 308Win that receives the 30SC cartridge and fires it through the stock 300BLK or 308Win barrel. As @mcb mentions some work would need to be done to handle the increased thrust generated by the 30SC as compared to the relatively simplistic nature of the 22lr conversion bolts.

I fully understand what he is asking for. That will take a totally new design since no one has made anything like that before. A high pressure pistol caliber is quite a bit different than rimfire.
 
This is a core question I'm having with this. Every time I've heard the capacity and shot placement argument it doesn't have a floor on diameter. Just meeting the penetration and expansion standards of the FBI. Kind of highlights how ill guided any open ended argument can be and the nuance is important. As a customer base we kind of decided that 5.7mm diameter is too small. I only say kind of because the guns where so dang expensive and a "working man's" priced gun hasn't existed until ammo was difficult to source. The more I think about it the less I want this in a pocket sized gun and the more I want it in something scaled correctly I'd appendix carry. Shaving the fraction of an inch in width might not seem like much but I bet that carry method I'd notice really quickly.

Whenever I feel like a pistol is getting to thick for appendix carry I take it as a sign I need to skip some meal time and hit the track.
 
Another issue I see with a 30SC conversion bolt designed similar to a rimfire conversion bolt is the over length difference between 9mm/30SC and 22lr. One will have to account for the longer cartridge and address the need for strong springs to handle the recoil.

The easiest method I see from a machinist/tool and die maker standpoint would be a separate chamber adapter and a bolt system similar to the CMMG radial delayed blowback system.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top