tightgroup tiger
Member
I have 5 lbs of Power Pistol that I will probably never use, unless I use up my 15lbs of BE-86. To bad you don't live closer, I'd give you a couple pounds of Power Pistol to play with.
Alliant
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tightgroup tiger
Member
I think he has it confused with Power Pistol in that post, may be a typo, We may be throwing to much at him at one time unless I missed something to.
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Crazy Horse
Member
The reason I ruled it out was as BBarn indicated Issues with 45acp and velocity variation. I'm looking for a powder that works well with both.
The article tested 45acp with FMJ loads, which I'll be using Lead rounds. The Sport Pistol article and website indicate it is made for coated bullets which is what I use at the range.
Walkalong, have you used Sport Pistol with coated 230gr 45acp bullets? I would like to get ~800 fps.
TIA
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Crazy Horse
Member
THX.
I overlooked it as I was looking for the specific firearm used. 5inch barrel is nice and long. which for 45acp I have a 5 inch 1911, but for 9mm, I have a 4.7 inch barrel. So velocity would only be slightly lower.
I nomally reload rounds at around 1050 FPS indicated load, but as the barrels I use are shorter, I probably more realistically hover at ~1000 fps.
fxvr5
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The standard deviations in the article look average. Why are you concerned about velocity variation? Are you loading for power factor? BBarn also doesn't indicate what numbers are, and maybe some shooters complain if the SDs are not single digit, so who knows what the comment means. At least the article posts numbers.
Group size in 9mm and 45 look nice for 15-shot groups. If you're looking for accuracy, this powder might work for you.
I don't see any 45 FMJ loads. They are all JHP.
Ej3
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My recent experience with 45 ACP and Sport Pistol with 230 gr polycoated RN bullets, lots of fps variation, but still pretty accurate.
Original post and follow-up testing. Getting 800 fps is no problem.
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Crazy Horse
Member
You are right. I don't typically load for the power factor plus it was developed with coated bullets in mind. Neither Basspro nor Academy had it, but I did find it in Midway.
How clean is the powder? On cases that is after they are fired. I've gotten spoiled with WST here recently,
How clean is the powder? On cases that is after they are fired. I've gotten spoiled with WST here recently,
The author of the Shooting Times article reported good results using Sport Pistol in the 45 Auto, with good accuracy and SDs below 20. Others have reported 45 Auto SDs in the 30s and 40s, which is a bit disappointing.
Personally, I've used a small amount of Sport Pistol in the 45 Auto. Results have been mixed, and I haven't ruled it out for use in the 45 Auto.
Personally, I've used a small amount of Sport Pistol in the 45 Auto. Results have been mixed, and I haven't ruled it out for use in the 45 Auto.
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Ej3
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Mine were a bit dirty on the outside, but just soot that wipes off easily. No permanent discoloration.
5.4 gr of Sport Pistol with 230 gr polycoated RN bullets at a 1.25" COL averaged 805 fps on a 90*F day, with ES of 27 & SD of 10. And was pretty accurate for me.
lordpaxman
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I say it’s great stuff!! Several have commented that Sport Pistol is an N320 equivalent, and, it’s very close.
@Crazy Horse, do yourself a favor and at least try Sport Pistol. Power Pistol is a good powder, but the flash and bang is a bit obnoxious. SP works well for me in 9 and .45. So well that it’s one of my competition loads. I can get 9 minor easily with SP, it meters really well, burns clean and groups are well within acceptable limits. In 45 you can make major without any problems. I’ve used it with lead, coated, plated and jacketed, but usually don’t load just lead. My 45’s SDs were within my acceptable limit. Good luck!
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Crazy Horse
Member
Those cases look like the one's I use when I load with CFE. I always figured that it would be sooty with all powders (used TG, Bullseye, and W231) and didn't understand it when folks said "burns clean." Now after using WST, I understand what they mean. The problem with WST is that it's very messy when compared to the other powders I've used.
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Crazy Horse
Member
So, my order of Power Pistol came in. I loaded rounds using 5.6gr using RMR 124gr plated RM bullets as well as RMR 124gr FMJ RN. Awesome powder. I have to agree, the powder is not flashy, but yeah, the bang. It is loud.
I will say it is not as clean as WST, but it is much cleaner than CFE pistol.
The other difference I noticed is that Power Pistol is so black, it almost looks blue. Lastly, it isn't as messy compared to the fluffy WST.
I liked the way it performed and overall very happy with it. I'd like to thank all for the recommendations. I also acquired some BE-86 and will be trying that in the near future.
Below is an 8 1/2 x 11 target that I shot using the RMR FMJ RN @ 124gr seated to 1.120. I used my S&W Compact 2.0 9mm
THX Again.
CH
I will say it is not as clean as WST, but it is much cleaner than CFE pistol.
The other difference I noticed is that Power Pistol is so black, it almost looks blue. Lastly, it isn't as messy compared to the fluffy WST.
I liked the way it performed and overall very happy with it. I'd like to thank all for the recommendations. I also acquired some BE-86 and will be trying that in the near future.
Below is an 8 1/2 x 11 target that I shot using the RMR FMJ RN @ 124gr seated to 1.120. I used my S&W Compact 2.0 9mm
THX Again.
CH
Charlie98
Member
I loaded some test loads last night with the RMR 124grn plated FMJ... using Unique, BE-86, and W244. I'm hoping this turns out to be a good bullet in my Kahrs.
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Crazy Horse
Member
Charlie98,
I really like RMR ammo, I purchased the plated ammo earlier in the year. I load it with the same amount of powder as the RMR FMJ RN bullets. No issues and accuracy was great. I have a good supply and have just ordered another 1k FMJ bullets. Unfortunately RMR as with most other bullet makers are experiencing delays due to increased demand.
This requires maintaining stock and ordering ahead. Don't know when this will end, but I've at least got some reloading supplies to last a good long while. I never went overboard in purchasing like some folks do-good on them. However, I have been able to maintain a good amount of reloading supplies.
Good luck.
CH
Just for clarity for future readers, RMR offers Plated bullets and in-house Jacketed bullets (FMJ)...as well as in-house jacketed flat nose (FN) and hollow point (JHP) bullets...but they don't offer a bullet which is both plated and jacketed
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Crazy Horse
Member
Thank You. I meant to put RMR PRN 124gr. As far as the other offerings, the only one I would not recommend is the matchwinner 147 FN bullets. After trying numerous times, I was only able to get it to function properly on my Canik TP9SFx. As far as all the other projectiles you mentioned, yes, they are excellent offerings from RMR. Recommend you order in a timely manner is they have been behind since the COVID issue came up back in Feb-Mar.
Thanks again for clarifying.
CH
Charlie98
Member
FMJ typically refers to the bullet profile... which is why I put 'plated' in front of it... but Crazy is probably more correct as PRN (Plated Round Nose.) You could split hairs... the copper plating IS a metal jacket, but I understand the differences. I will sally forth under the PRN banner...
FMJ, which has been around forever, has always meant jacketed, and of course, round nose, also called "ball" ammo, and I have always used plated round nose or plated RN or PltdRN etc for a plated bullet of that profile.
Sorry, but FMJ stands for Full Metal Jacket
The M16 shot 55 gr FMJ bullets. They sure weren't a round nose.
Charlie98
Member
A '9mm FMJ' bullet is, generically speaking, a round nose bullet... even though it mentions nothing about the bullet shape. a 5.56mm FMJ bullet is, generically speaking, is a spire point bullet, not a round nose bullet... even though it mentions nothing about the bullet shape. You can split hairs all day long.
If you really want to get silly about it... a typical 5.56mm 'FMJ' bullet is NOT a full metal jacketed bullet, because, typically, the base is exposed lead... a plated 'FMJ' would more accurately meet that description.
I already acknowledged that PRN is a better descriptor for a plated 'FMJ' style bullet... It makes sense and does differentiate between a traditional jacketed 'FMJ' bullet.
Just for Fun:
A full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet is a small-arms projectile consisting of a soft core (often lead) encased in an outer shell ("jacket") of harder metal, such as gilding metal, cupronickel, or, less commonly, a steel alloy. A bullet jacket generally allows for higher muzzle velocities than bare lead without depositing significant amounts of metal in the bore. It also prevents damage to bores from steel or armor-piercing core materials. In military nomenclature, it is often labeled ball ammunition.
The bullet was invented in 1882 by Swiss Colonel Eduard Rubin while he was working for the Swiss Federal Ammunition Factory and Research Center, which developed ammunition for the Swiss military.[1][2][3][4]
The use of full metal jacketing in military ammunition came about in part because of the need for improved feeding characteristics in small arms that used internal mechanical manipulation of the cartridge in order to chamber rounds as opposed to externally hand-reloading single-shot firearms.[citation needed] The harder metal used in bullet jackets was less prone to deformation than softer exposed lead, which improved feeding. It is sometimes thought that military use of FMJ ammunition was the result of The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibiting the use in international warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body.[citation needed] However, jacketed bullets had been in use since at least 1882, over a decade prior to the Hague Convention.
leftytsgc
A full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet is a small-arms projectile consisting of a soft core (often lead) encased in an outer shell ("jacket") of harder metal, such as gilding metal, cupronickel, or, less commonly, a steel alloy. A bullet jacket generally allows for higher muzzle velocities than bare lead without depositing significant amounts of metal in the bore. It also prevents damage to bores from steel or armor-piercing core materials. In military nomenclature, it is often labeled ball ammunition.
The bullet was invented in 1882 by Swiss Colonel Eduard Rubin while he was working for the Swiss Federal Ammunition Factory and Research Center, which developed ammunition for the Swiss military.[1][2][3][4]
The use of full metal jacketing in military ammunition came about in part because of the need for improved feeding characteristics in small arms that used internal mechanical manipulation of the cartridge in order to chamber rounds as opposed to externally hand-reloading single-shot firearms.[citation needed] The harder metal used in bullet jackets was less prone to deformation than softer exposed lead, which improved feeding. It is sometimes thought that military use of FMJ ammunition was the result of The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibiting the use in international warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body.[citation needed] However, jacketed bullets had been in use since at least 1882, over a decade prior to the Hague Convention.
leftytsgc
That sentence is proof of the point that "FMJ" does not refer to the bullet profile.
I discovered that this misunderstanding is more common than I thought when working with a new reloader and his mentioning that he was going to order more FMJ and his look of puzzlement when I asked him, "Which profile?" Because all the bullets he had seen on sites showed a RN bullet, he was under the mistaken impression that all FMJ bullets were RN.
It is common when buying ammo (cartridges) to say you want to buy FMJ; referring to ammo loaded with a jacketed RN bullet. When posting/discussing reloading discreet bullets FMJ does not commonly refer to the bullet profile. Bullet profiles for handgun bullets are Round Nose (RN), Hollow Point (HP), Semi-wadcutter (SWC), and Wadcutter (WC). Classic construction are Lead (swaged or cast), Plated (chemically applied over a lead core via electroplating), or Jacketed (lead core formed inside a metal jacket; commonly copper or steel)
All jacketed bullets have exposed lead...the RN on the bottom, the HP,and the less common soft point, at the tip...as that is where the core is inserted into the jacket. The term "Full" in FMJ is colloquial and not literal...much like we use the term Ball ammo (it isn't round) or .38 caliber (it is .357")
Adding to the confusion are Total Metal Jacketed (TMJ) bullets...which is a marketing term for plated bullets
Yep, and has for a very long time.
Charlie98
Member
All that is quite true... back in the Good Old Days, when there wasn't the variety of bullets we have now, there wasn't as much confusion. You mentioned TMJ bullets, and I never knew until recently they were plated... I was always scratching my head wondering 'how did they do that?' with a traditional jacket. And now there are thin plated bullets, thicker plated bullets, powder coated bullets.... and who knows what they will come up with next? Anyone remember Nyclad?
After this discussion, I've had to go back into my reloading notes to change 'PFMJ' to 'PRN' to designate plated bullets, and clean up the rest of my notes based on the bullets I've loaded.
I feel a little sorry for the handloading data providers... you could very easily take something like '115grn RN' data, and have 5 different types of bullets with the same shape, all with different ballistic characteristics based on their construction.
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