Tactical "Scout" Rifle...

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kalashnikov

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
399
So, as always, I'm in the market for a new rifle. Doing alot of thinking. I thought of a fairly unique idea (at least to me). A tactical scout rifle, in a intermediate caliber. The CZ 527 sounds like a good number, with a forward mounted scout scope and 22in bbl, in either 7.62x39 or 6.5 Grendel. But I'm always open to suggestions and encourage them. Also what would be good glass for such a gun?
 
Define tactical for this context. Does that mean black, slathered with rails, covered with lights, lasers, and vertical grips?
 
What do you consider a intermediate caliber? I consider between .22 and .30 intermediate, but thats me. I am also considering an intermediate caliber scout rifle, my thoughts were leaning towards .243, or even 7mm-08. Also, what is said rifle going to be used for?
 
Last edited:
The trick will be getting the scope mount forward of the receiver for an IER scope. That's gonna require some custom gunsmithing.

Otherwise, I think the CZ 527 in 7.62x39mm is an excellent candidate for a Scout rifle. It's light, handy, has backup irons, fires a commonly available military caliber, and has a detachable magazine.

As to the glass, both Burris and Leupold make dedicated IER scopes around 2.7 power. Others have used pistol scopes with good effect as well.
 
Thinking the same

I thought the same thing so I bought the carbine in 7.62x39. Only I want to deer hunt in thicket. Haven't put a scout scope on it yet but if I find a mount extension I certainly will.
 
I do not think that the cartridge qualifies it within Scout parameters.
Click to expand...

I dunno. Didn't Jeff specify an intermediate cartridge that was commonly available all over the world? If that isn't the 7.62x39 then nothing is.
 
Referenced from steyrscout.org:
A Few Words on the Scout Rifle Concept

Since one must take care with one's speech it is appropriate that we address the issue of just what a "scout rifle" really is.

By the definition of the Scout Rifle Conferences held under the auspices of Jeff Cooper the scout rifle has been defined as a general purpose rifle suitable for taking targets of up to 400 kg (880 pounds) at ranges to the limit of the shooters visibility (nominally 300 meters) that meets the following criteria:

Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds ).
Length: 1 meter (39 inches)
Nominal barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches)
Sighting system: Typically a forward and low mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary. Iron sights of the ghost ring type, without a scope, also qualify, as does a low powered conventional position scope.
Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine and/or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary.
Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style.
Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm). Calibers such as 7 mm - 08 Remington (7 x 51 mm) or .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed.
Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory.
Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).

Rifles that do not meet all of these specifications are technically not "scout rifles." Thus rifles of this general design in calibers other than those stated above are not true scout rifles but actually "pseudo-scouts." However, even though Steyr Mannlicher (and now Savage) are making production rifles of this general type (as well as some wild variations) they are under no legal obligation not to call their deviations "scouts" as a marketing tool. Thus, the Steyr .376 Scout also known as (and probably better referred to as the ".376 Dragoon" although the factory dislikes the term) nor the .223 variation are true scout rifles. For that matter neither are the custom made scout-like rifles made up in .30-06, .375 H&H, or what ever caliber. However, there are many parts of the scout design that can be handily used on non-scout rifles.
Click to expand...

Hope that helps. I'm building a couple of scouts from Yugo Mauser actions. They're coming along nicely.
 
Let's see. The CZ 527 Carbine weighs in at 5.9 lbs sans scope and is 37.4 inches long. The barrel is 18.5 inches long. It fires a .30 caliber round, albeit at less velocity and weight than the .308. It comes with a detachable magazine.

Downside: it will require gunsmithing to mount an IER scope and a rear sight on the receiver.

Overall, it's looking pretty good from here.
 
The CZ was just a base idea (though I do want one regardless). Other rifles such as a old milsurp or something newer are just as good.

As far as the meaning of tactical in this usage it would mean something akin to a DMR though bolt action.

The caliber would be something about 7.62x39. Other would be 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 7-08, .260 Remington, 243 Winchester, 250 Humdinger, and maybe .30 carbine or .223 (penetration being the main reason why not).
 
I'd look at the Ruger Frontier rifle in .308. And if you do a search, there's a thread by a guy who fit a 10-round M1A magazine to his Frontier. That's about as "tactical" as you can get in a scout configuration, IMO.
 
Scout

Probably one of the most under-rated rifles out there now for this purpose is the Swiss K31. Light , accurate, ammo is still fairly cheap, and there are several different mounting systems for LER scopes, or offset scopes. Easier operation than a regular bolt gun, and can be operated almost as fast as a semi due to its pull bolt design. Can be fed loose, with stripper clip, or you can purchase additional magazines.
 
Wait a second...
A Tactical Rifle - Okay.
A Scout Rifle - Okay.
A Tactical Scout Rifle? So take your ordinary scout rifle, paint it black or camo, and add rails all over it and a forward pistol grip.
BRILLIANT!
 
Personally, I think CZ would make a killing if they were to take one of their lighter rifles, give it an 16-18" lightweight barrel, put a Weaver mount on the top (further forward, scout style), and gave it a lightweight stock. Chamber it in a .223, 7.62x39, and and 6.8 SPC, and give it a removeable mag, (even if only 3-5 shots) and they'd have a real winner - especially if it was under $600.
 
Get an AK type rifle, like an AK-103, and forward mount a scope on it. You'll have a decent, reliable rifle that is quick to maneuver using a .308 caliber bullet with fast follow-up shot capability. It may not meet Jeff Cooper's strict definition of a true scout rifle BUT it'll work good for most military type "scouting needs."
 
Cool concept on the Enfield... but doesn't that mount set the reflex sight too high for a decent cheek weld?
 
Yes, I had to add a padded cheek rest. The rifle now wears a Leupold 2X EIR. Makes a great little brush gun and I can hit 8" flash targets a long ways out from prone with handloads.
 
Here's my cheap photoshop rendition of my 'scout' rifle -

th_36365_m10_122_720lo.jpg

7.62x39 'M10' Australian Enfield.
 
Last edited:
"Let's see. The CZ 527 Carbine weighs in at 5.9 lbs sans scope and is 37.4 inches long. The barrel is 18.5 inches long. It fires a .30 caliber round, albeit at less velocity and weight than the .308. It comes with a detachable magazine.

Downside: it will require gunsmithing to mount an IER scope and a rear sight on the receiver.

Overall, it's looking pretty good from here."



You may want to read the parameters and concept again.


The small calibers, (and bore size does not make a round make power level)simply don't have the flexibilty to be a general purpose rifle. Range and power (300 yards, targets up to 880 lbs, such as an elk or horse size animal) are the concept.


A forward mounted scope is not a requirement. A scope is not a requirement, tho a low power regular mounted scope is a very good general purpose setup.


Sorry to sound so nit picky, but I stay silent thru so many posts that think that any gun with a forward mounted scope is a "scout". A scope of any kind isn't a requirment of a scout. A scout is a concept for a general purpose rifle. Small calibers aren't genetral purpose, so far the available autos don't make caliber and size/weight of the concept, and most "scout" proposals tend to be more specialized rifles. Scouts are "anti-specialization" by nature.


Rant off.
 
I don't see why there's not any room for a little fudging on the specs. I built a scout rifle to fit my needs like others an am happy with the results. A few ounces here and lack of something there really not a big deal if it fits your needs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Scout Rifles?
Replies
7
Views
723
TBeck
T
L
  • Locked
What scope for a "scout rifle"?
Replies
4
Views
609
Ian
I
Rockrivr1
  • Locked
Show off your Scout Rifle
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
129
Views
6K
Blkhrt13
Blkhrt13
M
  • Locked
Will someone please help me with the scout rifle concept?
2 3
Replies
74
Views
3K
Art Eatman
A
HKGuns
  • Locked
Please explain the "Scout Rifle"
2 3 4 5 6 7
Replies
161
Views
8K
CmpsdNoMore
C
Back
Top