Where does the idea that if you aren't dirt poor you have no business hunting come from? People with money don't also need to eat? If you don't have the time/land to raise your own animals hunting provides a convenient way to obtain meat that isn't a walking chemical plant. Quite unlike the meat at your local grocery store. Whether I made $10,000 a year or $10,000,000 a year I still don't want to consume anything that has rolled off the factory farm assembly line.
Love guns but have never/would never hunt?
- Thread starter Hanzo581
- Start date
- Status
Where does the idea that if you aren't dirt poor you have no business hunting come from? People with money don't also need to eat? If you don't have the time/land to raise your own animals hunting provides a convenient way to obtain meat that isn't a walking chemical plant. Quite unlike the meat at your local grocery store. Whether I made $10,000 a year or $10,000,000 a year I still don't want to consume anything that has rolled off the factory farm assembly line.
bhk
Member
Some pretty Walt Disney "Bambi" feelings being expressed here. Spend much time in the woods and you will realize nature is all about life and death. Lots of death. With or without man being involved. You can pretend it doesn't exist, but that does not change the fact. Ethical hunters are not 'destroying' anything that will not be dying soon anyway, usually in a much crueler fashion. And LOTS more of the same species are being born each year. The resourse is a renewable one. No ethical hunter I know would support hunting any species in a manner that adversely affects the resource, unless that resource is in some kind of overpopulated status.
Yep, fancy rifles give us an advantage other predators don't get. Yet, most deer hunters still come home empty handed. We are also careful to enforce seasons and bag limits to protect the resource. Many of us also bow hunt, further increasing the challenge.
I have a degree in biology, live in the woods, and work in the field daily. I see deer, turkeys, and a great variety of other wildlife almost every day. A true joy, really. But I also see the effects of predation, disease, and weather on wildlife. Nothing I see make me feel anything but good about hunting. It is not about the killing, but about the natural processes involved.
I guess a lot of our opinions on hunting depend on our backgrounds and where we live/work. I certainly do not see anything wrong with not hunting. Just don't pretent something didn't die in order for you to eat. If you want to be further away from that process than a hunter, fine. It is all about choices. Please, though, don't interfere with my choice to gather my own meat.
Yep, fancy rifles give us an advantage other predators don't get. Yet, most deer hunters still come home empty handed. We are also careful to enforce seasons and bag limits to protect the resource. Many of us also bow hunt, further increasing the challenge.
I have a degree in biology, live in the woods, and work in the field daily. I see deer, turkeys, and a great variety of other wildlife almost every day. A true joy, really. But I also see the effects of predation, disease, and weather on wildlife. Nothing I see make me feel anything but good about hunting. It is not about the killing, but about the natural processes involved.
I guess a lot of our opinions on hunting depend on our backgrounds and where we live/work. I certainly do not see anything wrong with not hunting. Just don't pretent something didn't die in order for you to eat. If you want to be further away from that process than a hunter, fine. It is all about choices. Please, though, don't interfere with my choice to gather my own meat.
grumpy66
Member
Mother Nature tends to control the wildlife population pretty well.
During dry times, prey animals don't get enough vegitation so they don't breed as much.
Predatory critters don't get enough prey, don't breed, ect.
The only animal on this planet that is not affected by environmental conditions and breeds unchecked is humans.
I started appreciating guns out of a military/historic perspective. I have many long guns, but have never gone hunting. The idea of it intrigues me, but the thought of not killing the game animal quickly keeps me away. I would feel terribly if I made a bad shot and the animal ran off with it's intestines hanging out. I also don't have the stomach for field dressing the animal. If my family was starving, I would do what I had to do however.
I have no problem with people hunting for food. As long as they eat their kill, or give the meat to someone, more power to them. What I don't care for is people shooting animals just for target practice. I see no need to shoot squirrels and such for no reason. I also think prairie dog hunting is cruel. I know all about their holes, but that is how nature created them.
The hunting that I could never do is coyote hunting. I understand they can be a nuisance, but they are too much like dogs to me. They can even breed with dogs. I could never kill one unless it was attacking my family or my pets. If they were bothering livestock, I would try to scare them away.
I have no problem with people hunting for food. As long as they eat their kill, or give the meat to someone, more power to them. What I don't care for is people shooting animals just for target practice. I see no need to shoot squirrels and such for no reason. I also think prairie dog hunting is cruel. I know all about their holes, but that is how nature created them.
The hunting that I could never do is coyote hunting. I understand they can be a nuisance, but they are too much like dogs to me. They can even breed with dogs. I could never kill one unless it was attacking my family or my pets. If they were bothering livestock, I would try to scare them away.
Last edited:
Nushif
Member
Oh yeah. and I do think most of the people here expressing these "Bambi" feelings are full aware that they stem mainly from the proverbial heart and not the brain. That does not make it any easier for me to shoot Bambi, though.
And to a certain degree I am ok with that. I like to think my fuzzy-heartedness adds a touch of humanity to my existence. I certainly will not be judging anyone negatively who is aware of their hangups and accepts them as such.
And that is not limited to just hunting and the second amendment, either.
And to a certain degree I am ok with that. I like to think my fuzzy-heartedness adds a touch of humanity to my existence. I certainly will not be judging anyone negatively who is aware of their hangups and accepts them as such.
And that is not limited to just hunting and the second amendment, either.
Loosedhorse
member
We are, if you look at things evolutionarily, a bifoveate predator. Top of the food chain. Hunting is what we do, an essential part of who we are.
If we love nature, we should consider loving our own nature, too. If instead we are supposed to be better than our nature, then we should manage the nature around us into a better state as well. And hunting (legal, licensed, ecologically sound hunting) is an important part of that management.
I have no problem with those who choose not to hunt...only with those who think hunting wrong, unnatural, or hypocritical. Especially if that means they would take the choice to hunt away from others.
So...he deserves to get old, be ousted from the herd by younger males, wear down his last molars, and starve to death until taken down by "natural" predators, predators who are unconcerned with clean kills and like to eat their prey alive...
Or deserves to be killed by the motorist who's one cup of coffee shy of being alert?
I have a trophy bull that I saved from all that. Feel pretty good about it; did him an enormous favor!
Last edited:
bhk
Member
Don't know much about big game species population biology, do you? What you say holds some water with small game, but not deer, elk, etc. except in the few areas of the country with very healthy wolf/lion populations and a habitat with limited crops. One local grain farmer I know loses an estimated 25 acres of corn per year to deer. Don't think he and other farmers will support large increases in the deer population. Not a single creature in this part of the country (or most of the country) can effectively control deer except man now that the other predators are effectively gone. Yep, they would eventually die back AFTER all the corn and soybeans are eaten. Not a good deal. Then even the vegans wouldn't have anything to eat! Heck, even the Audubon Society holds controlled deer hunts on its properties to prevent habitat degredation.
For some good reading, look up the historic Kiabab Plateau deer studies from the first part of the 1900's.
I know some people that so object to hunting they would rather hire professional shooters to kill deer than have 'regular' folks get some pleasure from hunting. Can you imagine the amount of money it would take to hire professionals to shoot the 400,000 plus deer that need to be harvested in my state alone in order to maintain a stable deer population. As things presently exist, hunters are PAYING millions of dollars a year for this opportunity.
Don't hunt if you don't want to. I totally undertand that. Just understand why it is a biologically sound tool in wildlife management.
Last edited:
rogerjames
member
This is how I hope my grandfather and dog will end their lives.
Are you suggesting that you should end this process early? If you do... I'm sure you won't mind my response... ya betta DUCK
This is an accident... not deserved or intended. As is not the child that slips and falls in a pool. Better for you to shoot them than drown by accident?
Whatever helps ya get through the day
grumpy66
Member
bhk,
Does it say anywhere in my post that I oppose hunting?
I am an avid hunter of deer, elk, hogs, coyotes, rabbits, etc.
The point I was trying to get at is, the nutural selection that occurs during hard times with animals.
His farm is not the natural habitat for the deer, it is a man-made food plot.
And just why are the other predators gone??? MAN.
As I said, the only animal on this planet that goes unchecked and is not in balance with nature is the human animal.
Does it say anywhere in my post that I oppose hunting?
I am an avid hunter of deer, elk, hogs, coyotes, rabbits, etc.
The point I was trying to get at is, the nutural selection that occurs during hard times with animals.
His farm is not the natural habitat for the deer, it is a man-made food plot.
And just why are the other predators gone??? MAN.
As I said, the only animal on this planet that goes unchecked and is not in balance with nature is the human animal.
bhk
Member
Ok, I misundertood your previous post. Sorry. We are actually pretty close in our thinking. Have a great evening!
I like to hunt & I like guns., I think it is good to be in touch with the process of where our food comes from. It has been a while back but I read once that hunters in Georgia harvest 40% of the deer herd every year. This just keeps the population at the same level. Can you imagine how overrun this state would be with deer if no one hunted. I do my best to be as ethical as possible with how I hunt. If you don't have a good shot let it walk. Some times it can be nerve wracking waiting for the right opportunity though.
thefamcnaj
Member
I'm with the op on this one. I love guns, all guns. Handguns, shotguns, rifles but I don't hunt. I wasn't raised around it so I guess I was never pointed in that direction. I'm glad there are people who hunt though because I love deer meat, but I know I just couldn't field dress an animal. I don't feel like hunting is wrong in any way and if my kids were hungry I'd figure out how to do it.
LOL... I also got a kick out of the "cute" bears too.
Esp since a bear encounter was the one time in my life I just knew I was going to die. Luckily it only "killed" our Mountain Bikes which equated to one hell of a hike to the nearest ski resort and then a long wait for a ride back to our vehicle..
Every year I am in a non-lethal war with deer. As they eventually find a way to circumvent my garden security. They are a pest to me. Although I have no interest in killing them as they are so pathetically small and I enjoy seeing the herd in my pastures (Used to large Rockies Mulies not Texas Jackalopes.) So I put up with the lil thieves even though I am a hunter, more than a paper shooter..
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
This thread has been a very interesting read and I'm quite surprised at low many shooters do not hunt. What is sad is how many shooters have a very skewed perception of hunting that is nowhere near the reality. Not the least of which are all the references to "sport hunting". Please, fellow shooters, educate yourselves on this stuff before repeating more of what you heard on the 6:00 news.
Hunting ain't about killing. Period. If you think differently then you do not understand. Rcmodel's post summed it up nicely.
For those who speak negatively of "catch and release", if it weren't for catch and release, there would be very, very few freshwater fish in this country. The folks who eat everything that bites their hook will have seen to that.
Hunting ain't about killing. Period. If you think differently then you do not understand. Rcmodel's post summed it up nicely.
For those who speak negatively of "catch and release", if it weren't for catch and release, there would be very, very few freshwater fish in this country. The folks who eat everything that bites their hook will have seen to that.
Yes, I agree, you obviously don't understand and probably never will.
MCMXIautomatic
Member
I don't hunt, but I want to learn how to do it. I took a hunters safety class when I was 16, but I never knew anyone who could actually take me into the field and teach me. It's Ironic, since I live in Wyoming and hunting is one of our great pastimes.
Having lived in Cheyenne my whole life, I've pretty much lived the life of a city boy, so I never had any real exposure to hunting. My dad could never stomach the idea of shooting an animal and field dressing it. My grandpa used to hunt sometimes but unfortunately he died when I was two years old.
But it's never too late to learn, right? It's a good skill to have, and I'd like to experience the outdoors in a more meaningful way.
Having lived in Cheyenne my whole life, I've pretty much lived the life of a city boy, so I never had any real exposure to hunting. My dad could never stomach the idea of shooting an animal and field dressing it. My grandpa used to hunt sometimes but unfortunately he died when I was two years old.
But it's never too late to learn, right? It's a good skill to have, and I'd like to experience the outdoors in a more meaningful way.
Bud Tugly
Member
Like it or not, nature is all about competition to the death. Even in the plant world the species that can choke out it's competitors by being stronger or more efficient thrives while the weak fail.
Humans are a part of that process. Our growing population and expanding development into formerly natural land destroys wildlife and wild plant species by eliminating habitat. You participate in that just by being alive on this planet.
If you oppose hunting but eat meat, have you ever seen where that grocery store steak or chicken comes from? Most of it from cattle raised in feed lots and poultry raised confined to cages where the animals never see the sunlight or breathe clean air and have zero chance of survival. After being fattened, they are killed, gutted, and dismembered by an assembly line process.
The animal that is hunted in the wild is born free and survives by its own resources in fierce competition, which is the way things have always been. If it's smarter, faster, or more alert than its predators it will live long, otherwise it dies. If I end its life as a hunter, at least that animal had a chance, unlike the animals raised for food.
Humans are a part of that process. Our growing population and expanding development into formerly natural land destroys wildlife and wild plant species by eliminating habitat. You participate in that just by being alive on this planet.
If you oppose hunting but eat meat, have you ever seen where that grocery store steak or chicken comes from? Most of it from cattle raised in feed lots and poultry raised confined to cages where the animals never see the sunlight or breathe clean air and have zero chance of survival. After being fattened, they are killed, gutted, and dismembered by an assembly line process.
The animal that is hunted in the wild is born free and survives by its own resources in fierce competition, which is the way things have always been. If it's smarter, faster, or more alert than its predators it will live long, otherwise it dies. If I end its life as a hunter, at least that animal had a chance, unlike the animals raised for food.
Last edited:
buck460XVR
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 10,087
This is just my personal opinion but...
I hear a lot of "hunting folks" that share their "love of nature" as an integral part of the hunting experience... all the while... intending to kill or destroy a portion of that nature.
I am sure many are able to separate the two, but to me personally, this seems a little hypocritical.
Kind of hard for me to say that I cherish the rainforests, but work as a logger. Easy for me to say that I enjoy "sitting amongst them in the early morning"... but then participate in their demise
The reason there is any significant numbers of game animals left in the world is because of hunters. They are the true conversationalists. Monies from their licenses, plus their private donations and their involvement with independent groups and clubs is what helps promote the continuation of most of our native species. It is also hunters that reintroduced many species into areas they previously had been eradicated. Teddy Roosevelt was a big time hunter and look what he did for conservation and the acquisition of public lands for all to enjoy, even non-hunters. Hunters control animal numbers so they don't stress their environment and don't suffer needlessly. Don't matter how cute you think deer are, uncontrolled, they can become like rats to grain farmers. Uncontrolled numbers of them along our highways and not only will many of them die a horrific death, so will a lot of motorists. Uncontrolled numbers in State and National forests can and will destroy and eliminate many important native species from the ecosystem. Anyone that does not understand this is living in fantasy world. As far as the rain forests, it's the informed and knowledgeable loggers that are conserving them. When loggers are done in an area, it is them that replant and reforest it, not gun forum posters. Loggers are the last ones that want to see all the trees gone, again, if one does not know this, they have their head in the sand.
Last edited:
FoghornLeghorn
member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2011
- Messages
- 14
Boom! Match point and pwned!
The anti hunting "run Bambi it's man" types are too narrow minded to understand what hunting does for wild animals.
They should see areas with high concentrations of deer where there's no hunting allowed. Food supplies are short and animals die of starvation and disease. Not a pretty sight.
Without hunting, overpopulation is a problem and animals end up maimed and killed by cars.
Without hunting, there will be no government funding to care for natural resources since 100% of that money comes from hunting licenses, taxes on ammo, etc.
I'm amazed that after all this time, people can still be so ignorant. Hunting is absolutely necessary for the environment. Hunters gladly pay for the privilege of the outdoor experience, and if it weren't for them, the govt would be forced to hire professionals to thin the herds.
.
Last edited:
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I don't know, we do a pretty jam-up job of killing each other. Always have. Even spend billions of dollars every year trying to figure out how to do it more effectively.
Exactly!
While you're online, look it up and see who actually began the national park system. Who began the conservationist movement. A hunter. Make no mistake, if it were not for hunters, there would be no game management, there would be no game animals, there would be no habitat. Hunters and sportsmen do WAY MORE for conservation than anyone else ever will.
lobo9er
Member
Eating is apart of nature. All of nature consumes. For one to consume another has to be consumed. Just because one goes to the store and has another do the dirty work doesn't change anything. Hunting and cleaning what you are going to consume makes you have a better understanding of nature, IMHO of course. And IMHO, I think its more beutiful than commercial farming.
Mike1234567
member
True, that. I'll just repeat that I don't hunt because I don't have the stomach for it. But, if all rules of ethics and morality are properly followed, I have no issue with others who enjoy it. I've cut way back on my meat consumption but won't eliminate it altogether. So, yes, I let others do my dirty work. BTW, I'm looking for free range kosher meats because the animals are more humanely treated and killed plus it's healthier to consume.
The only hunting I really want to do is feral hog control, from a helicopter, with the 50rnd drum on my FAL.
If I lived in Arkansas with my family I would take deer meat, but that's different
in my mind from hunting for a huge trophy rack.
Getting the animal hooked on deer crack and then shooting from the seat of a 4wheeler, taking it out of the field on said 4wheeler to the truck is just not hunting. It is a good way to get clean meat for little money invested.
If I lived in Arkansas with my family I would take deer meat, but that's different
in my mind from hunting for a huge trophy rack.
Getting the animal hooked on deer crack and then shooting from the seat of a 4wheeler, taking it out of the field on said 4wheeler to the truck is just not hunting. It is a good way to get clean meat for little money invested.
Smokey in PHX
Member
I have several friends with guns that never would consider going hunting. They are not against hunting they just do not hunt. One in particular enjoys wild meat but he feels quite uncomfortable shooting an animal so he does not hunt.
- Status