CSPAN thread for Tuesday 03/02/04

I'm setting here grinning like an idiot.

I left work with smoke coming out of my ears because of the AWB/gunshow/gunlock/AP amendments. . .

I get home and find it was all a ploy! Thank you Larry Craig!

...and people will discover when the AWB sunsets that blood will neither run in the streets, or will the streets be 'flooded with bullet hoses.'

In trying to get some sense of perspective on this, I feel like a guy who's just been held up at knifepoint. I'm glad he only got my wallet. It could have been so much worse...

But OTOH, why should I be pleased that frivolous lawsuits can now still go forward?

Edited to add: Okay, who's the parliamentary genius? Craig, or the minions of evil? If Chuckie is telling the truth (big leap here) about this being the only chance in the near future to extend the AWB, then Craig et al are. Upon reflection, the AWB amendment got 52 votes. Why don't the devil-spawned grabbers bring it up as a standalone bill for consideration? Do they think they won't get the 52 votes, or are they afraid of a filibuster, requiring 60 votes for cloture?

just wrote CNN and told them their story was wrong

What would I do without you guys obsessively keeping everyone up to date on the truth ... you should all get jobs at the networks and cable news channels!

I feel so conflicted. Lawsuit liability is dead for now, but so is AWB renewal (again, for now...)

I heard on radio AWB was renewed falsely. media always seems to report falsely on something congress votes and passes an ammendment though it overall gets shot down.

I didnt have tv and internet till 1:30pm cause some idiot cut into a fiber line.

fox news also reported wrong as did abcnews radio. msnbc did as well I believe.

The local radio affiliate (AM 820 in Dallas-ABC) says in a strange twist the AWB passed but is now dead and "in the end we are left with nothing".

Their words. Scr-w ABC.

Since I started following this thread after lunch it and my blood pressure have gone up 200 posts or to about that in the BP department.

What a mess.

The voters have much work to do in Novenber to get shut of the office holders that voted for the prelim legislation. Let's not forget some senators have some explaining to do.

Moderate Republicans.......nothing is more scary!

S-

Check the NY Times - they have it right:

'WASHINGTON -- Senate Republicans scuttled an election-year bill to immunize the gun industry from lawsuits Tuesday after Democrats amended it to extend an assault weapons ban and require background checks on all buyers at private gun shows.'

Plus - check out Schumer's spin:

'While Democrats won't get the gun ban extension and the gun show legislation, they called the vote a success. "Look, everyone's between a rock and a hard place," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. "The immunity bill was a terrible bill. We're better off at the end of the day than we were at the beginning of the day." '

Ironbarr

Thank you for your kind words.

You will probably be sick of me before this election season has passed.

Between now and election 2004, will the Democrats like FineSwine and Shoetree use this AWB extension vote as a lever to warn Republicans against bringing up any bills the dems don't like.

I can just hear them now; "You bring that bill forward, and we will resurrect the AWB extension ammendment, for which we received 52 votes if you recall".

All gun owners in states who had one or more Senators vote for these ammendments, need to let these people know that you don't appreciate their attack on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, which they took a solemn oath to uphold and defend!

Maybe in 2004, we will replace some "Yeas" with "Nays". John Breaux, John Edwards, and that Fitzgerald dude, are all due to leave the Senate. What about John Kerry if he loses? Is he done as well? Massachussetts will probably just replace him with a Kennedy clone. Daschle may have a tough time of it as well. We must hope and work for more anti gunners to be replaced by pro Second Ammendment people.

If the Republican Senate leaders are going to keep taking dives, for their sake they'd better learn to fake it better. Or one of these days they'll find that the pool is dry. (Ok, mixed metaphor, but you know what I mean.)

This wasn't a fight they had to lose, they engineered this loss, with that unconstitutional "unanimous consent" agreement, (No quorum present to consent to anything.) and their failure to rule the amendments non-germane.

The Democrats would not have hesitated, when they controlled the chamber they didn't just walk all over the Republicans, they strapped on golf spikes first. And the Republicans are not so feckless that they couldn't have done it, if they had meant to win.

We got two things out of this exercise: The first is that list of 52 Senators. And the second is the knowlege that the Republican Senate leaders are our enemies, even if they don't have the guts to come out and publicly own up to it.

Could someone here please either post here, or a brand new thread about how each of the Senators voted on the poison pill amendments to S1805.
Then, I can cross-reference that with the list of 33 senators that are up for reelection come this November.

Specifically, the following poison amendments
Boxer trigger lock amendment
Reed/McCain gun show amendment
Feinswine AWB amendment

I know that Boxer is slated for reelection.

Don't forget Lincoln of Arkansas. Has to run for reelection this cycle, too. Does anyone know when the North Dakata Duo (Dorgan, Conrad) are due to face the electorate again?

I'm another new guy to The High Road due to the S1805 threads.

Many thanks to everyone who has posted on these s1805 threads to keep us all informed.

Maybe the Dems are taking the long term strategizing approach.

"We won't have to worry about a ban on assault weapons if we can drive the manufacturers out of business, or at least make the guns so costly that no one will want one in the first place".

Could they be that slick and smart? I wouldn't put it past them. They may be thinking that they got the best deal here, if this is their line of thinking.

Maybe the Dems are taking the long term strategizing approach.

Click to expand...

Yes and no. Yes they are taking the long term approach, but not by putting manufacturers out of business. Their new strategy has been revealed to all by Ted Kennedy. Start banning ammo.

Howdy, USAFNoDAk, Jeff_R, and other newcomers!

Welcome to The High Road. Stick around, browse the various areas here, ask questions and share knowledge of your own — another benefit of this ugly scene is that it's brought some more of you here. Relax and stay a while.

I think we should work for an amendment to the Constitution to secure for all time a right to keep and bear arms, so we don't have to keep going through this.

If the Republican Senate leaders are going to keep taking dives, for their sake they'd better learn to fake it better. Or one of these days they'll find that the pool is dry. (Ok, mixed metaphor, but you know what I mean.)

Click to expand...

THANK YOU Brett! I have been saying the same thing over and over again. Once cloture passed and the "Unanimous Consent" decree came about last week, we should all have known the outcome -- the bill was dead, and all of the amendments and debate was just a dog and pony show.

The Republican leadership did not HAVE to do this, but they decided to anyway. They sold out gun owners in a big way.

I am not sure exactly why they did -- maybe it will be clearer in the next week or so, but they certainly must THINK that they are going to get some payoff for this.

You can just be sure that whatever the reason, principle and upholding their oath of office to support the Constitution had nothing to do with it.

Thanks for the Welcome Note, Happy Bob.

I used to hang around and post on the old TFL forums, but then got away from it. I just found you guys the other day. Great Discovery on my part. I feel like I have been away from home for too long, and finally found my way back.

I can see them "Nationalizing" Colt, when Colt goes bankrupt after a lawsuit. Let Colt and other firearm manufacturers go under, then purchase their factory and equipment for a song, hire key workers on some contract vehicle, thus feeding the Federal contracting beast. We had national armories before for small arms, we could again. No sales to non-governmental entities since we wouldn't want the last existing US based gun maker in the world "interfering in the marketplace"-- the non-existant marketplace destroyed by liberal judges and sympathetic juries making punitive awards. Can't sue the government for (mis)using their arms, and even if you won they'd jack up taxes to cover the billl.

I don't think they were expecting a payoff, precisely. Rather, this wasn't something they wanted enough to piss off the Democrats. (Who they have to work with every day, after all.) They'd have to have stepped on some toes to win this one, and what for? Something WE cared about, but they don't give a bucket of warm spit about.

The gun maker protection part will be back. There are a number of ways to do it. Just depends on how hardball they want to get. There are upsides and downsides to each approach, but there ARE several approaches being worked on right now.

Click to expand...

For the love of all things holy I hope it's after October. This was ay to close, and our side would have to be stupid to try that again before the AWB sunsets. It is clear that there are too many republicans who would vote for it.

Um the Feinstein and Reed amendments were pre filed so they had to be voted on.

Am I wrong??