Losing Faith in the 1911. Help

Old Dog said:

With no "true 1911" experience, then why post in the thread?

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Because I had something to say. Isn't that the reason everyone posts? (Rhetorical)

Guess I got lucky, my Citadel 1911s have never had an issue. Guess I saved about $2,500.

Buy good magazines. The ones that come with the guns are generally not that good. I use Wilson & Tripp primarily and none of my 1911s have issues. When I get a new one, I throw the factory mags in a box and they are never used...

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Good Advice, Right There! You hold onto the factory mags in case you decide to sell off the gun! The only exception was with my first SW1911 which was one of the original ones that came from S&W with Wilson 47D mags, I kept the Wilsons & sold off the gun with a couple CMC Shooting Stars.

I have owneda 3" Stainless Custom and a full size Target by Kimber as well as the Para Ord Warthog and have NEVER had any issues except the coating on the PA.

Sounds like a mag issue and an extractor, rather than selling it off you should have invsted $7 to attempt to fix it.

In regards to the factory SA mags....When, I bought my Loaded it came with a discount code for up to six more factory mags at a discounted price. I bought six. I have had zero issues with any of my SA mags.

Thing is, I want to have a government model as my main defensive pistol. It's a beautiful gun that I shoot very well and accurately. If I could just get a reliable one, it would be my "go to" handgun.

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I wanted the same thing for several years, but kept having or observing similar bad experiences; when it wasn't a common stoppage, it was a catastrophic failure from MIM parts. One day I realized I could spend a fraction of the money on a wonder nine with over twice the rounds at half the weight and no finicky break-in period, and the spell was broken. I now own one 1911, relegated to occasional range use.

Fisherman12,

I was reading about the Springfield Armory Range Officer in the latest issue of The American Rifleman when it occurred to me the your problem may be with the cartridge, not the gun. The article describes how mild the recoil is and how accurate the R.O. is in 9mm. So if it is the 1911 platform you are wanting, not the 45 acp, the 9mm chambering is worth a look.

Gun Smith

I have a 2003 Springfield loaded and it keeps on ticking. Why not buy something in the middle of the pack (Colt XSE) and then find a local gunsmith that is reputable with 1911's and let hime fine tune it for you. Set the trigger, put in custom springs etc and then use it . I would't sell a car just because it needed a tune up, or have it customized to your liking. Once i got my first 1911, I haven't bought another poly since. Not that I don't like them , it's just the feel of metal that turns me on.

JMO

I'm starting to think there is a conspiracy between manufacturers and gunsmiths if people really are spending $2500 to fix a $1500 gun. I somehow managed to build one from a bare frame, in my basement, for under $600 and it eats everything.....

Wilson combat builds a reliable 1911 but its still too heavy and does not hold a lot of ammo. I have several 1911 pistols but do not carry them, 490 dollar glock or m@ p shoots every time

Buy good magazines. The ones that come with the guns are generally not that good. I use Wilson & Tripp primarily and none of my 1911s have issues. When I get a new one, I throw the factory mags in a box and they are never used...

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This.
I'd just add to stay away 8rnd mags to.

If you need 100% reliability carry a revolver.

Many people do that for that reason. It's quite common.

Springfield will fix it

I have a new Range Officer with about 600 rounds through it that would sometimes jam after firing the last round in a magazine. Springfield service repaired the pistol, paid for shipping both ways and returned the pistol in just over one week. If I were you, I would give Springfield a chance to fix your problem.
- Mike

I grew up shooting a 1911 that participated in the Battle of the Bulge. I cannot remember ever having a failure of any kind. My older brother has it now and we have found that it does seem to have a tight chamber, even with the rifling almost worn away, as it will not reliably chamber some reloads that easily pass the plunk test in my Series 80. The Series 80 has never had a problem either through several thousand rounds of reloads of ball, hollow point and semi wad cutters (mostly reloads). I had a Hipoint that also fired flawlessly until it got run over. It didn't work at all after that but still sold it for $75 due to their warranty program. I couldn't in good faith send it back to them after what I did to it. I could never CCW such a large gun like a 45 as I very rarely wear anything but shorts & tees year round.

Thing is, I want to have a government model as my main defensive pistol. It's a beautiful gun that I shoot very well and accurately. If I could just get a reliable one, it would be my "go to" handgun.

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Boy, this kind of goes with that other thread of carrying a particular gun/caliber because of personal intangibles. I think above all else, a gun MUST be reliable/functional if it were to be used as a defensive weapon.

The 1911 design is NOT inherently unreliable, as long as you get one that rattles and feed it only ball ammo.

The problem is that we have company after company trying to make that design into something its not. The 1911 can't run in the same races as a Glock, XDm, or Beretta in self defense, though it makes for a fine Race-gun. It sounds like sacrilege, but I am not trolling. If you had a Glock that could only run with ball ammo, how many gun people would say you shouldn't use it for SD because better options are available? How about that niche market SD gun - Boberg XR series? How many of you out there would depend your life on it? It's cool looking and has an innovative design. It also comes with a freaking list of usable ammo?! That design also sometimes rips bullets from the case.

A worn 1911 still looks 100% better, feels better, and has a better history than a Glock or M&P, but what it isn't is a SD gun for most people. Because unless you are willing to tweak it until it is 100% or spend $2K to $3K so that someone else had already tweaked it, no one should rely on it for SD when there are much better options out there.

BTW, there's no arguing an opinion. There are some who will have a stroke reading this while there are others who will be nodding their heads reading this.

Sending a gun back to the factory can be good or bad. Sometimes even a good company sends out a gun that needs a little tweaking and sometimes sending it back to a company that just flat out made a bad gun isn't going to help. If you are in a major area, there's always a good 1911 smith around. He can tell you if it is worth tweaking or just get rid of it. It's always good to get an outsiders opinion.

In regards to the factory SA mags....When, I bought my Loaded it came with a discount code for up to six more factory mags at a discounted price. I bought six. I have had zero issues with any of my SA mags.

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This^^^

If your 1911 needs anything other then SA factory magazines to run, your gun is at fault.

Onward Allusion said:

The 1911 design is NOT inherently unreliable, as long as you get one that rattles and feed it only ball ammo.

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Utter rubbish!! A properly built 1911 will work reliably with all commercial ammunition and a host of reloads. I have 1911s that work perfectly with SWC, JHP (185gr, 230gr), RNFP and MC bullets. Those 1911s are extremely well fitted with no rattle. As others have mentioned, the problem with 1911s is that their manufacture isn't tightly controlled. Only GLOCK makes GLOCKs, only SIG makes SIGs so it's much easier to keep those products within a tightly defined set of parameters. How many companies make GLOCK magazines or SIG magazines for that matter? Now compare that to how many companies make 1911 magazines.

Originally Posted by Onward Allusion
The 1911 design is NOT inherently unreliable, as long as you get one that rattles and feed it only ball ammo.

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Another myth that just won't go away.

Can you just imagine the line of trucks headed back to the five WW2 contractors if the US government had been told that the pistols need to be broken in with 500 rounds before they'd be reliable?

And new USGI pistols weren't rattle-trap loose when they were new.

And I have several unaltered USGI pistols dating from 1913 to 1945 that can't tell the difference between hardball...hollowpoints...and even cast 200-grain semiwadcutters...and they'll do it with the USGI "hardball" type magazines.

The 1911 pistol was designed to function. If it's built to spec, and fed halfway decent ammunition from a proper magazine...it will function. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.

Assuming that the frame ramp and barrel ramp is to spec, the magazine is the usual cause of feeding/RTB issues...at about 90%. Wish I had a dollar for every problem child that I've "fixed" by doing no more than handing the gun's owner a few of my magazines. They've usually been mystified to discover that their high-end "tactical" magazines were causing all their headaches.

For intermittent return to battery problems...look first at the extractor. That's where the bug usually is...again at about 90%.

And there's more to the extractor than tension alone. If everything is to spec...including the extractor...you can set the tension and drop it in. If not...then it's gonna need some attention.

If the pistol hangs up part-way out of battery...check to see how much of the tensioning wall is showing in the breech area. About one in five pistols manufactured since Y2K have too much...called excessive deflection. With that in play, you can remove tension until the thing won't pull a case out of the chamber without solving your RTB problem. And you can bevel the lower edge until it won't hold a case long enough to snack the ejector...with the same results. In fact...more recently...excessive extractor deflection is just about tied with the magazine for being at the root of all RTB problems.

The picture below illustrates excessive deflection. Here, there's about twice as much extractor in the breech than there should be.
It shows evidence of "tuning" without resolving the problem. It took all of five minutes to resolve, using a safe-sided rail file and a dial caliper.

From Onward Allusion:

The 1911 design is NOT inherently unreliable, as long as you get one that rattles and feed it only ball ammo.

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Completely untrue. Meaning the part about the ball ammo being the only ammo to feed it. The bit about the 1911 being a reliable gun in general is true.

Folks who believe this have a problem because they have to explain how it is that so many millions of 1911 platform guns work well for their users with everything from LSWC target loads to modern JHP defensive loads. They have to explain away the old advice of choosing ammo that works for you and the gun. They have to explain away that a $400. out the box Norinco can run with no major interruptions for hundreds of rounds. They can't explain these things so they ignore them and keep repeating that 1911s only work with ball ammo.

A worn 1911 still looks 100% better, feels better, and has a better history than a Glock or M&P, but what it isn't is a SD gun for most people. Because unless you are willing to tweak it until it is 100% or spend $2K to $3K so that someone else had already tweaked it, no one should rely on it for SD when there are much better options out there.

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Again the fella has to exaggerate to make his point. The main point he's selling is that a few million owners of 1911s are either abysmally ignorant or lying to themselves and others about their guns. He insists, as above, that only a $1500. gun that has $2K-3K of work done on it is reliable for self defense. To believe this you have to accept that owners of 1911s are either ignorant, liers, or deceiving themselves. That's a big pill to swallow.

tipoc

1911Tuner said:

The 1911 pistol was designed to function. If it's built to spec, and fed halfway decent ammunition from a proper magazine...it will function. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.

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This is my experience...all of the 1911's I have shot (not a lot...half a dozen) were "Plain Jane" guns and had nothing extraordinary done to them. No fancy parts, no tuning, no polishing, springs...plain old right out of the box.

Never had a failure that I remember in the old days back when all the guys were shooting GI guns and such. Hollow points, hardball, and even lead oddball rounds in hand loads. No problem. I wonder why all the trouble or perceived need for "fancy" now?

VooDoo

Vodoun da Vinci said:

This is my experience...all of the 1911's I have shot (not a lot...half a dozen) were "Plain Jane" guns and had nothing extraordinary done to them. No fancy parts, no tuning, no polishing, springs...plain old right out of the box.

Never had a failure that I remember in the old days back when all the guys were shooting GI guns and such. Hollow points, hardball, and even lead oddball rounds in hand loads. No problem. I wonder why all the trouble or perceived need for "fancy" now?

VooDoo

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Now wouldn't that be something, that several myths were perpetuated that the firearm was unreliable unless you did X, Y, and Z to it, and thus they created a solution to a non-existent problem and then sold it. Thus all of the high end and fairly expensive firearms come to market. Could many have fallen for the idea that if it costs more it must be better? And in the process they have rendered a firearm that is essential out of spec. I don't know, I am just thinking out loud here.

I can tell this is going to get even better as it goes along.

As far as 1911s, IMO 500 round break-in period is ridiculous. 500 rounds(10 boxes) of 45ACP is about $200.

I am with many, for the money you spend on a firearm (especially a 1911), it should run flawless out of the box.

Never had a failure that I remember in the old days back when all the guys were shooting GI guns and such. Hollow points, hardball, and even lead oddball rounds in hand loads. No problem. I wonder why all the trouble or perceived need for "fancy" now?

VooDoo

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Largely because in the old days, Colt was the only game in town for a new 1911 pistol. When the resurgence in interest came, Springfield jumped in, and they marketed a good pistol.

Then, everybody wanted a piece of the pie, and they seemed to make up the specs as they went.

And they're still at it.