10mm..: the new outdoorsman's choice.?

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Good question! There is a huge difference between a defensive outdoor handgun and a hunting handgun IMO.

A hunting handgun, I am the aggressor! I pick the time and place for the shot. I want a gun I can show t with hunting accuracy and carries a range me shot kill round. A Ruger Blackhawk in a big bore caliber is the gun I’m choosing.

In a defensive handgun, I am reacting to a threat, be it a bear, hog, cougar, or methhead. I’m wanting a semi automatic high cap gun I train with and shoot well. That’s where the 10MM
Makes sense!
Well said! I think the two activities can utilize the same handgun, or different handguns. I want something that is concealable while hiking as my primary threat is two legged but can be four legged. A hunting handgun may wear a scope and a longer barrel which would be my choice for hunting, not as easy to conceal.
 
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I think a serious defensive pistol is probably going to be different than what I hunt with. I am not likely to shoot anything beyond 50yds. If I have something threatening me or mine, and being aggressive, inside my comfort zone..... which I'm thinking is somewhere inside 25 yds or less.... the shooting could get real intense. Thats not where I want my single action blackhawk hunting revolver.
Having never been in any similar situation....I'm not sure what I would want to be carrying.
 
Good question! There is a huge difference between a defensive outdoor handgun and a hunting handgun IMO.

A hunting handgun, I am the aggressor! I pick the time and place for the shot. I want a gun I can shoot with hunting accuracy and carries a large caliber 1 shot kill round. A Ruger Blackhawk in a big bore caliber is the gun I’m choosing.

In a defensive handgun, I am reacting to a threat, be it a bear, hog, cougar, or methhead. I’m wanting a semi automatic high cap gun in a platform I train with and shoot well. That’s where the 10MM striker fired makes sense to me.

sorry for the typos

+1 Couldn't say it better myself.
 
You've authored many well-written and well thought-out posts over the years. Maybe you should consider writing a book or write for some gun magazines. I'm one who much appreciates your interesting and valuable insights.
I’m far less qualified to write about firearms than many of the real experts here. I’m just a simple guy who had to learn how to write clearly by working for many hard-ass bosses! LOL.

But I’m glad you find some benefit from my rambling. Appreciate your kind words.

Take care!
 
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I want to thank everyone for their responses to this thread and @Armored farmer for starting it. I carry a 41mag as my critter defense handgun and want to purchase a 44mag for hiking out west.
With the 10mm coming back into popularity (as mentioned in many threads) I have the itch to add one to the collection now the question is a - 1911 or a Glock????

Thanks to all you ENABLERS :D
 
I have the itch to add one to the collection now the question is a - 1911 or a Glock????
Like you, im wanting a fishing/hiking gun. I'm hung up between s&w 29 snub or a full size railed 1911 in .45acp or 10mm.

The glock will be cheaper and lighter weight.
A Springfield Armory 1911(ca n t remember the model) in 10mm is the shizzle.
 
Like you, im wanting a fishing/hiking gun. I'm hung up between s&w 29 snub or a full size railed 1911 in .45acp or 10mm.

The glock will be cheaper and lighter weight.
A Springfield Armory 1911(ca n t remember the model) in 10mm is the shizzle.
The S&W 69 is the 44 mag I'm looking at 4.25" or 2.75"???
I haven't looked at the catalog, but does Ruger make a 10mm on the 1911 platform?
 
Good question! There is a huge difference between a defensive outdoor handgun and a hunting handgun IMO.

A hunting handgun, I am the aggressor! I pick the time and place for the shot. I want a gun I can shoot with hunting accuracy and carries a large caliber 1 shot kill round. A Ruger Blackhawk in a big bore caliber is the gun I’m choosing.

In a defensive handgun, I am reacting to a threat, be it a bear, hog, cougar, or methhead. I’m wanting a semi automatic high cap gun in a platform I train with and shoot well. That’s where the 10MM striker fired makes sense to me.
Sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not sure what logic is used to come to this conclusion but it is diametrically opposed to conventional wisdom regarding dangerous game. When hunting, the critter is calm and caught unaware when the bullet strikes its target. They also typically don't know where it came from but their instinct is usually to run away, which means that by the time you see them again, they have bled out. On the flipside, a critter that has decided to go on the offensive is enraged and charged with adrenaline. It knows where you are, it knows what you are and it wants to kill you. It takes MORE to stop them, not less. This is why bolt action rifles are often used for hunting dangerous game but a double rifle is chosen for the approach or any other time a charge is imminent. Charges are stopped with big bore double rifles, not AK47's. Same logic applies to handguns. If I was hunting brown bear, I might choose a .44Mag as my primary but carry a .500 as backup. I would at the very least choose the same cartridge and the same load, using a platform more conducive to speed as my backup. Because when things go south, I want the greatest terminal effect I can put on target with each shot. This idea that the cumulative effect of a 15rd 10mm is as effective or more effective has no basis in reality. High capacity 10mm's need not apply.
 
I haven’t looked either, but if memory serves, yes. No rail though iirc.
Sig
Springfield Armory
Dan Wesson
Rock Island?
Also in the 10mm market.
I forgot about Rock Island Arms. There TAC series looks nice. I remember one of the sales people at Pekin Guns liked his RIA the best of all his 1911s.
 
Sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not sure what logic is used to come to this conclusion but it is diametrically opposed to conventional wisdom regarding dangerous game. When hunting, the critter is calm and caught unaware when the bullet strikes its target. They also typically don't know where it came from but their instinct is usually to run away, which means that by the time you see them again, they have bled out. On the flipside, a critter that has decided to go on the offensive is enraged and charged with adrenaline. It knows where you are, it knows what you are and it wants to kill you. It takes MORE to stop them, not less. This is why bolt action rifles are often used for hunting dangerous game but a double rifle is chosen for the approach or any other time a charge is imminent. Charges are stopped with big bore double rifles, not AK47's. Same logic applies to handguns. If I was hunting brown bear, I might choose a .44Mag as my primary but carry a .500 as backup. I would at the very least choose the same cartridge and the same load, using a platform more conducive to speed as my backup. Because when things go south, I want the greatest terminal effect I can put on target with each shot. This idea that the cumulative effect of a 15rd 10mm is as effective or more effective has no basis in reality. High capacity 10mm's need not apply.

It not about 15 rounds, it about enough rounds. 7 from a 9MM? 2 from a 10MM.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/al...k-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/#axzz75i8qRiZ6
 
I've been thinking a little more on this 10mm vs .44 mag argument recently.

The 10mm cannot come close to duplicating top end .44 mag loads. There's just no way. But is that 300gr hardcast at 1200fps (or whatever more you choose) necessary in all circumstances? I doubt it. We cannot use a ratio based off of calculated energy, to say that 2 rounds of 10mm is equal to 1 round of .44 mag (or some such). Nor can we say all shots will hit.

We also can't say that carry weight doesn't matter, or that the weight of the gun doesn't matter to recoil during shooting. It's no good having a lightweight gun that we fail to shoot well when we truly need it. And we cannot say 6 rounds is enough for all situations, or that there will be enough time to shoot even half that many in others.

What we can say is that, whatever we choose should be something we are well practiced with. And also that perhaps the situation we choose to put ourselves in might dictate what we choose to carry. I think there's room for a 10mm Glock in my safe. Which may not be what I choose for all my woods wandering, but could well prove preferential in certain instances.

But I'd suggest to anyone looking to load heavy hard hitting .44 mag, to buy a revolver that can handle it. And one that they too can handle, with those loads.
 
Since energy for self defense shootings is an irrelevant number according to Federal/Speer, then that same case must also hold true when it comes to big animals in the outdoors. So long as a 10mm can penetrate deep enough to get a CNS hit and get some expansion to cause damage I'm failing to see what makes .41 or .44 Mag a necessity.

There is quite a lack of scientific data concerning animals and understanding what would be a minimum amount of penetration necessary to be considered adequate for defense. With humans we know it's 12 inches in ballistic gel. Of course those who are speaking against 10mm here are likely more focused not on the minimum threshold needed for penetration, but how to get the maximum amount of penetration.

Until we know what the minimum is, we're really just throwing straw against the wind.
 
Since energy for self defense shootings is an irrelevant number according to Federal/Speer, then that same case must also hold true when it comes to big animals in the outdoors. So long as a 10mm can penetrate deep enough to get a CNS hit and get some expansion to cause damage I'm failing to see what makes .41 or .44 Mag a necessity.

There is quite a lack of scientific data concerning animals and understanding what would be a minimum amount of penetration necessary to be considered adequate for defense. With humans we know it's 12 inches in ballistic gel. Of course those who are speaking against 10mm here are likely more focused not on the minimum threshold needed for penetration, but how to get the maximum amount of penetration.

Until we know what the minimum is, we're really just throwing straw against the wind.

Sure. Except that handgun hunters (not me) have seen the difference in effectiveness of these cartridges with a variety of loads.

Ignorance is not a good excuse to throw your hands up and say it's okay to go with less not more. As one of the ignorant (who's never used a handgun to defend myself from anything), I'd argue the opposite is far more sensible.

When we talk about effectiveness of handgun cartridges for defense against wild animals, it's logical to assume that shots will likely be presented head on. Which puts the brain at the front, but it's a small target as most animals have much smaller brains than humans. So if we do not hit the brain, perhaps we do hit the spine? That sounds okay, except it's behind hair/fur and hide and bone, and the shot will not hit at anything close to 90 degrees. If we miss low, maybe we hit the heart or lungs? Also behind hair/fur, hide, possibly bone or cartilage, and also muscle. Penetration, it would appear to this inexperienced individual, is certainly key.

So for a given bullet weight, greater velocity is advantageous. For a given velocity, greater bullet weight is advantageous. If there is a question as to how effectively a given load can get adequate penetration through hair/fur, hide, bone, cartilage, and muscle, it would be prudent to err on the side of caution and take more gun rather than less.
 
Sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever. I'm not sure what logic is used to come to this conclusion but it is diametrically opposed to conventional wisdom regarding dangerous game. When hunting, the critter is calm and caught unaware when the bullet strikes its target. They also typically don't know where it came from but their instinct is usually to run away, which means that by the time you see them again, they have bled out. On the flipside, a critter that has decided to go on the offensive is enraged and charged with adrenaline. It knows where you are, it knows what you are and it wants to kill you. It takes MORE to stop them, not less. This is why bolt action rifles are often used for hunting dangerous game but a double rifle is chosen for the approach or any other time a charge is imminent. Charges are stopped with big bore double rifles, not AK47's. Same logic applies to handguns. If I was hunting brown bear, I might choose a .44Mag as my primary but carry a .500 as backup. I would at the very least choose the same cartridge and the same load, using a platform more conducive to speed as my backup. Because when things go south, I want the greatest terminal effect I can put on target with each shot. This idea that the cumulative effect of a 15rd 10mm is as effective or more effective has no basis in reality. High capacity 10mm's need not apply.

The logic and reality I used was based on the documented accounts of pistols stopping North American dangerous game attacks. I posted the 2018 article before. The most recent article below from Ammoland.com is a cumulative article, updating the 2018 article by the same author, Dean Weingarten. Mr. Weingarten has written on this subject for several years.

The 2021 article identifies 104 recorded cases of attacks, with three failures for a 97% effective stopping attacks. Many accounts involved big bore revolvers, but there were many semi-auto carry guns as well:

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/ha...-attacks-104-cases-97-effective/#axzz75isyW2Z

I’ve read lots of folks on the Internet say that folks have been killed by dangerous animals while carrying smaller handguns, but there really aren't many stories that back that assertion up. There were cases where the shooter missed or the gun wasn't loaded, like the guys in WY where the guide left his Glock 10MM on a tree. Bear attacked while guide is field dressing the animal, and client could not operate the handgun that was in condition 3 (loaded mag, empty chamber). That wasn’t the guns failure…
 
The logic and reality I used was based on the documented accounts of pistols stopping North American dangerous game attacks. I posted the 2018 article before. The most recent article below from Ammoland.com is a cumulative article, updating the 2018 article by the same author, Dean Weingarten. Mr. Weingarten has written on this subject for several years.

The 2021 article identifies 104 recorded cases of attacks, with three failures for a 97% effective stopping attacks. Many accounts involved big bore revolvers, but there were many semi-auto carry guns as well:

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/06/ha...-attacks-104-cases-97-effective/#axzz75isyW2Z

I’ve read lots of folks on the Internet say that folks have been killed by dangerous animals while carrying smaller handguns, but there really aren't many stories that back that assertion up. There were cases where the shooter missed or the gun wasn't loaded, like the guys in WY where the guide left his Glock 10MM on a tree. Bear attacked while guide is field dressing the animal, and client could not operate the handgun that was in condition 3 (loaded mag, empty chamber). That wasn’t the guns failure…

The way I see it, there's a big difference between finally/eventually stopping a bear with a gun (or bear spray for that matter) and stopping it before it mauls someone. I seem to recall an incident where a guy got attacked by a grizz, and he had a partially loaded Glock 10mm. Well, the gun jammed at some point, he got mauled a bit, got away, got chased, got mauled a bit more, shot the bear a bit more, and finally survived. It went something like that. I wonder if that is considered a success or not.
 
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Statistics like that have to be kept in perspective. Just like those from the FBI. Sorry but there is way too much applying self defense logic to the field by people who really aren't qualified. I would have to forget what I've learned about terminal ballistics from 35yrs of actually shooting critters with handguns to go along with it and I'm not going to do that. I'll take what I know and the collective knowledge of 100yrs of handgun hunting over statistical analysis every time. Not to mention the practices of those who have hunted dangerous game with rifles over the last 200yrs.
 
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