OldCavSoldier
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My M642 (w/ factory-tuned action) with its M60 & M37 cousins
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642 Club Part Three
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Holster Comparison: Kramer vs. DeSantis Nemesis
Naturally, after getting my 642, finding a good pocket holster was a high priority. I did a lot of reading and web shopping, and settled on the Kramer and the DeSantis Nemesis as two top choices, and acquired one of each. After a month of carrying the two holsters, I've formed some distinct impressions and preferences, and thought I'd pass them along.
The Kramer looks and feels like a piece of fine sculpture in hard leather. A flat, wallet-like outer surface minimalizes printing. It fits the gun very snugly. In fact, it fits a bit *too* snugly. The revolver snaps into place with a positive action: the outside rim of leather just above/behind the cylinder kinda "locks" down, holding the revolver in. In a belt holster, this would be a great feature. In a pocket holster, not so much: sometimes the revolver doesn't want to come out, so the holster wants to come out of the pocket with it. With the holster's hard, slick outer finish, the only thing keeping it in the pocket is a hook or lip of leather projecting outward from the holster above where the hammer would be on a conventional snubbie. In fact, in one practice draw, the holster did come out along with the gun. Also, the stiff construction makes the revolver both look and feel a bit like a brick in your pocket. Finally, it's pricey: about $100.
The DeSantis is made from flexible, grippy fabric with a neoprene or neoprene-like outer coating. A flange of doubled fabric extends below (or, when it's in your pocket, beside) the trigger guard. This flange both increases resistance to pulling the holster out of the pocket, and helps keep the gun securely positioned (this is an issue with the large-pocket cargo shorts I use for yard work). The revolver slides in and out of the holster easily. Also, the flexible fabric is extremely comfortable, and it does a good job of softening the lines of the gun: printing is minimal. The flange design makes the holster quite wide. I can imagine that it wouldn't fit well in some trousers with narrow pockets, but this hasn't been a problem with any of the pants I wear. With the textured, grippy outer surface, the smooth inner surface, and the extending flange, I really think it would be impossible to accidently pull this holster out of the pocket when drawing. And, at $20, it's a good value.
Bottom line: I really wanted to like the Kramer. From my reading, I'd formed the impression that this is the Cadillac of pocket holsters, but it's a bit uncomfortable to carry and (far more important) I don't have 100% confidence that it will perform as needed when needed. With my gun and my wardrobe, the DeSantis beats the Kramer on every metric.
Naturally, after getting my 642, finding a good pocket holster was a high priority. I did a lot of reading and web shopping, and settled on the Kramer and the DeSantis Nemesis as two top choices, and acquired one of each. After a month of carrying the two holsters, I've formed some distinct impressions and preferences, and thought I'd pass them along.
The Kramer looks and feels like a piece of fine sculpture in hard leather. A flat, wallet-like outer surface minimalizes printing. It fits the gun very snugly. In fact, it fits a bit *too* snugly. The revolver snaps into place with a positive action: the outside rim of leather just above/behind the cylinder kinda "locks" down, holding the revolver in. In a belt holster, this would be a great feature. In a pocket holster, not so much: sometimes the revolver doesn't want to come out, so the holster wants to come out of the pocket with it. With the holster's hard, slick outer finish, the only thing keeping it in the pocket is a hook or lip of leather projecting outward from the holster above where the hammer would be on a conventional snubbie. In fact, in one practice draw, the holster did come out along with the gun. Also, the stiff construction makes the revolver both look and feel a bit like a brick in your pocket. Finally, it's pricey: about $100.
The DeSantis is made from flexible, grippy fabric with a neoprene or neoprene-like outer coating. A flange of doubled fabric extends below (or, when it's in your pocket, beside) the trigger guard. This flange both increases resistance to pulling the holster out of the pocket, and helps keep the gun securely positioned (this is an issue with the large-pocket cargo shorts I use for yard work). The revolver slides in and out of the holster easily. Also, the flexible fabric is extremely comfortable, and it does a good job of softening the lines of the gun: printing is minimal. The flange design makes the holster quite wide. I can imagine that it wouldn't fit well in some trousers with narrow pockets, but this hasn't been a problem with any of the pants I wear. With the textured, grippy outer surface, the smooth inner surface, and the extending flange, I really think it would be impossible to accidently pull this holster out of the pocket when drawing. And, at $20, it's a good value.
Bottom line: I really wanted to like the Kramer. From my reading, I'd formed the impression that this is the Cadillac of pocket holsters, but it's a bit uncomfortable to carry and (far more important) I don't have 100% confidence that it will perform as needed when needed. With my gun and my wardrobe, the DeSantis beats the Kramer on every metric.
rdrancher
Member
Thank you for the nice review on the two holsters.
I really don't understand the need for a form fitted holster for pocket use, such as the Kramer. I have leather from DM Bullard, although its rough-out. Like you, I really want to like it, but the only thing that keeps it in the pocket during a draw is a leather nub on the front top edge of the holster. Plus, it's not real comfortable, even after getting worn in pretty well.
I have a Nemesis, but it resides in my holster drawer most of the time since I sometimes carry a mid-seventies Charter Arms Undercover. It works fine with the 642, but the inside lip of the Nemesis catches the hammer spur on the Charter at times. I use a Mika almost daily. I also have an inexpensive Uncle Mikes for smallish pockets.
I really don't understand the need for a form fitted holster for pocket use, such as the Kramer. I have leather from DM Bullard, although its rough-out. Like you, I really want to like it, but the only thing that keeps it in the pocket during a draw is a leather nub on the front top edge of the holster. Plus, it's not real comfortable, even after getting worn in pretty well.
I have a Nemesis, but it resides in my holster drawer most of the time since I sometimes carry a mid-seventies Charter Arms Undercover. It works fine with the 642, but the inside lip of the Nemesis catches the hammer spur on the Charter at times. I use a Mika almost daily. I also have an inexpensive Uncle Mikes for smallish pockets.
>Thank you for the nice review on the two holsters.
You're welcome.
>I use a Mika almost daily.
Everyone seems to love the Mika... I'll have to try it as well.
I had planned -- still do, I guess -- to acquire a selection of the usual suspects (Kramer & DeSantis + Mika & Galco & Uncle Mike's), and do a "round up" kinda review. Except for the Kramer, they're all reasonably priced, and it would be nice be have a broad selection to fit whatever I'm wearing.
You're welcome.
>I use a Mika almost daily.
Everyone seems to love the Mika... I'll have to try it as well.
I had planned -- still do, I guess -- to acquire a selection of the usual suspects (Kramer & DeSantis + Mika & Galco & Uncle Mike's), and do a "round up" kinda review. Except for the Kramer, they're all reasonably priced, and it would be nice be have a broad selection to fit whatever I'm wearing.
DAdams
Member
Pocket Holsters
Mika Roundcut
Desantis Nemesis
The Mika is large enough that it easily falls away (while protecting the trigger from inadvertant access and entanglements) and also large enough that it stays in the pocket. It has some grippy material, but that is not the key to its operational success; it certainly doesn't hurt having it there.
My preferences in order of use. But since I got the Mika, nothing else comes close. I am not saying it is the end all because they all have shortcomings, the Mika just has the fewest.
http://www.thehighroad.org/search.php?searchid=8999387
If you run into something you like better I am all ears and open to suggestions.
Welcome to the Forum Bradgad....almost forgot my manners.
Mika Roundcut
Desantis Nemesis
The Mika is large enough that it easily falls away (while protecting the trigger from inadvertant access and entanglements) and also large enough that it stays in the pocket. It has some grippy material, but that is not the key to its operational success; it certainly doesn't hurt having it there.
My preferences in order of use. But since I got the Mika, nothing else comes close. I am not saying it is the end all because they all have shortcomings, the Mika just has the fewest.
http://www.thehighroad.org/search.php?searchid=8999387
If you run into something you like better I am all ears and open to suggestions.
Welcome to the Forum Bradgad....almost forgot my manners.
fiVe
Member
DAdams said:
True words. One of the best purchases I ever made.
My new 442/no-lock
Picked this up the other day, an easy gun to like, I haven't been to the range yet but am looking forward to it. I do have a question, in the S&W catalog the 442 & 642 are listed at the same price, but when it comes to the No-lock the 642 is listed at $100.00 (?) more, (I hope I am quoting the catalog correct), (I going from memory thats the second thing that goes), Thanks msn
Sweet
Picked this up the other day, an easy gun to like, I haven't been to the range yet but am looking forward to it. I do have a question, in the S&W catalog the 442 & 642 are listed at the same price, but when it comes to the No-lock the 642 is listed at $100.00 (?) more, (I hope I am quoting the catalog correct), (I going from memory thats the second thing that goes), Thanks msn
Sweet
rdrancher
Member
How 'bout a pic?
Thanks Gotigers. It's actually a no-lock -3 M38...so technically not a 642. I really, really like it. Sometime I will put more photos up to include the 642. My wife actually uses the 642. My SD card went bad so I need a new one before I can take more photos. The appendix carry is great, very concealable, fast, comfortable (I guess it works ok for skinny people, but not so good for fatties). In the photo above is a picture of a BSA scout belt that I would wear at scout camp. I liked the tooled leather, but I am used to gun belts so I sent it off to Rhome Desbian who added a thick inner layer to it while making the holster. It will last a life time and can double as a gun belt.
Sloman, mine does not have the pin on the hammer. I bought it a few years ago off of Gunbroker. I always wanted an M38 but wanted a newer one without the internal safety and shot +P (I don't know why I wanted the +P because I never shoot them) but anyway I found that one and the guy actually had two at a reasonable price - new. I wish I bought the other one. I do like the M38 and 442/642. My wife and daughters shoot them well and when my daughters reach the age of 21 they plan on packing one of them. They are a marvelous firearm and am astonished when my semi-auto packing friends scoff at them.
I stopped by my favorite local gun shop last weekend and they had a mega sale going so I picked up this brand new no lock beauty for $279!
Edit to add: 1000 dry fires, crack her open and clean. Install a new pair a shoes and she's ready for action.
Edit to add: 1000 dry fires, crack her open and clean. Install a new pair a shoes and she's ready for action.
rdrancher
Member
Now that's one heck of a deal!
DAdams
Member
Photo man
Good looking and whattadeal!
Good looking and whattadeal!
Wow...I disappear for a while, and this thing has exploded.
In reference to holsters, and trying to keep this post on topic, I picked up a Mika holster a while back. Unfortunately, I didn't have my permit until just recently, so I've only been carrying it for a little while. Excellent holster, IMHO.
The part that cracks me up about this particular piece, as opposed to the 4" 1911 I carried before, is that it's so light that I can forget that it's in my pocket; but when I take off my pants, if I'm not thinking about it, they drop like a rock due to the extra weight of the pistol.
In reference to holsters, and trying to keep this post on topic, I picked up a Mika holster a while back. Unfortunately, I didn't have my permit until just recently, so I've only been carrying it for a little while. Excellent holster, IMHO.
The part that cracks me up about this particular piece, as opposed to the 4" 1911 I carried before, is that it's so light that I can forget that it's in my pocket; but when I take off my pants, if I'm not thinking about it, they drop like a rock due to the extra weight of the pistol.
angel1216
Member
we've had a whole month of above 100F and counting
. My 442 is getting lots of carry time these days!
. My 442 is getting lots of carry time these days!
rdrancher
Member
I hear you angel!
It's been so hot and humid for so many days straight that my 642 and Mika spend most of the day in the console of my truck. The construction project I've been on for the month of July has required me to be onsite, eight hours+ everyday. I've been sweating like a wooly mammoth in the Sahara, and anything in the pockets causes more "soakage"!
It's been so hot and humid for so many days straight that my 642 and Mika spend most of the day in the console of my truck. The construction project I've been on for the month of July has required me to be onsite, eight hours+ everyday. I've been sweating like a wooly mammoth in the Sahara, and anything in the pockets causes more "soakage"!
I've had my 642-2 for 3 or 4 years. It hasn't been carried much until recently. I both attend school and work at a college which is illegal for carry in GA, though you can have it in your car. So I keep it there and when I stop somewhere while going to/from (somewhat common) I slip it into my pocket. It also sees duty in a Smartcarry for those nearly impossible to carry scenarios.
At first I carried the 135gr +P short barrel Speer Gold Dot but I only had one box...of which 5 rounds were given to a former co-workers. Those are gone. I now carry the Ranger 130gr bonded +P shown in the picture. The reloads are 125gr +P Gold Dots loaded by GA Arms.
I have 3 boxes of the Buffalo Bore 158gr +P LSWCHP arriving in a couple of days. I am also about to order a Safariland Comp1 speedloader as well as another box or three of carry ammo...which rounds specifically I have not yet decided.
At first I carried the 135gr +P short barrel Speer Gold Dot but I only had one box...of which 5 rounds were given to a former co-workers. Those are gone. I now carry the Ranger 130gr bonded +P shown in the picture. The reloads are 125gr +P Gold Dots loaded by GA Arms.
I have 3 boxes of the Buffalo Bore 158gr +P LSWCHP arriving in a couple of days. I am also about to order a Safariland Comp1 speedloader as well as another box or three of carry ammo...which rounds specifically I have not yet decided.
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