Am I missing something without a 30.06?

[savanahsdad]

Can't take credit for that link at all. It was posted by another member on another thread. But it does show the abilities of bullets even 31 years ago. Imagine what the '06 could do today with new custom loads. Would it be my first choice in brown bear territory? Probably not my first choice since I own a 1895 45-70 and I reload. But would/should I feel "under gunned" with my '06 in Alaska? Not a bit. Animals bite back in Oklahoma also. 500-600lb black bears aren't that uncommon. Neither are big cats. And I have personally seen a 407 lb wild boar with 5 1/2" cutters (it killed 2 of my friend's chase dogs and a catch dog). So we have critters here that "bite back".

The 7.62 EMU huh? Lol. Who knows. It might catch on.

45-70 for bear !!!!!! ? that report says you should have a 444marlin not a 45-70 however they do list a 44mag over a 300WM 180gr , hummmm I have five 44MAG"s I guess I don't need a 300WM and they only list a 44mag with a 7.5" barrel my shortest is 10.5 and 3 are rifles , (big grin) anyhow I agree ,I'd take the 45-70 but we would get beat up on that other thread for saying that didn't someone say "the 45-70 is pointless " lol

 

[Eb1]

Seeing as I watched my first few episodes of Yukon Men last night. Seems the AR 15 was the choice of the locals. And the .30-06 was the backup bolt rifle.

 

[Mike1234567]

I wonder if the quicker follow-up and increased magazine capacity of the .458 SOCOM, with 400-600gr bullets, makes it a better bear rifle than the .45-70.

 

[Nom de Forum]

45-70 for bear !!!!!! ? that report says you should have a 444marlin not a 45-70 however they do list a 44mag over a 300WM 180gr , hummmm I have five 44MAG"s I guess I don't need a 300WM and they only list a 44mag with a 7.5" barrel my shortest is 10.5 and 3 are rifles , (big grin) anyhow I agree ,I'd take the 45-70 but we would get beat up on that other thread for saying that didn't someone say "the 45-70 is pointless " lol

Clearly "The Report" was a somewhat flawed document from inception. It is not a report that rigorous adherence to the scientific method was used to prepare. It certainly had some value when published and retains some today; so use that and discard the rest. In comparison to all the other pseudo-scientific nonsense about stopping/knock-down power peddled by many of the great names in shooting over the last 100 years it is not that bad. The bottom line is a bullet of strong enough construction, with high sectional density, from a medium caliber rifle fired accurately is known to get the job done. The .30-06 has probably demonstrated this more times than any other rifle.

 

[stiab]

...they do list a 44mag over a 300WM 180gr...I guess I don't need a 300WM...

Actually, they both were rated at the very bottom of the list as poor performers for the purposes of this study, which had a very narrow and specific objective. Keep in mind the heading of the table is Short-range Ballistic Performance and the subject is protection from bears, not the general hunting of big game.

Here's a quote from the study about why the .300 Win Mag did not fair well at near point blank range:

"These high velocities with moderately heavy bullets resulted in striking energies that exceed the design level of the bullets, especially the heavier ones...Fragmentation was prevalent for these bullets, and weight losses were 60 percent or more. The 180-gr bullet in the .300 Winchester also had poor penetration and substantial weight loss, as well as relatively poor expansion, all of which contributed to its last place ranking."

 

[CraigC]

In this study http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf the 30-06 was one of the top performers against brown bears.

A useless, terribly outdated and limited test.....at best.

I never said it wouldn't do what folks believe it does. It just doesn't excel at anything except being popular. If all you want is one rifle, then it will do a good job at most things. However, most of us are not one rifle types and given a selection of at least three or four rifles, none need be a .30/06 to excel at their respective purposes. Smaller cartridges make better deer and medium game rifles and larger cartridges make better large game rifles. If you "need" 220gr loads, you probably need more rifle. It's too in-between, too much and not enough. Which is fine if you just want to walk into Walmart once in your life and walk out with a deer rifle. Just too plain vanilla for my tastes.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Just too plain vanilla for my tastes.

But Vanilla is such a popular flavor...liked by most and available many places. Most youngster like exotic flavors for some reason .

 

[Nom de Forum]

A useless, terribly outdated and limited test.....at best.

I never said it wouldn't do what folks believe it does. It just doesn't excel at anything except being popular. If all you want is one rifle, then it will do a good job at most things. However, most of us are not one rifle types and given a selection of at least three or four rifles, none need be a .30/06 to excel at their respective purposes. Smaller cartridges make better deer and medium game rifles and larger cartridges make better large game rifles. If you "need" 220gr loads, you probably need more rifle. It's too in-between, too much and not enough. Which is fine if you just want to walk into Walmart once in your life and walk out with a deer rifle. Just too plain vanilla for my tastes.

Completely understandable and rational conclusion for a multi-rifle owning hunter. Since you already own several rifles the addition of a .30-06 is just relatively inexpensive icing on the cake and that "Hunting Insurance Policy" I mentioned earlier. You may even find yourself wondering why you are spending so much time with the care and feeding of all those other rifles that are more specialized.

 

[Nom de Forum]

But Vanilla is such a popular flavor...liked by most and available many places.

Vanilla is also the most versatile flavor. It is much easier to tinker with vanilla ice cream to create an acceptable substitute for chocolate or strawberry ice cream than the other way around.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Seeing as I watched my first few episodes of Yukon Men last night. Seems the AR 15 was the choice of the locals. And the .30-06 was the backup bolt rifle.

The operative phrase being "the .30-06 was the backup bolt rifle". What if you have no backup or time for backup? I want to be the backup guy, you can be the AR15 guy. I also want to be the guy who can run and climb trees faster.

 

[BigBore44]

This thread was about the OP missing something without the '06. The answer is yes. He's missing a great cartridge from a historical, performance, availability, price, reloading potential, standpoint.

Is that study outdated? I'd say yes. We have come a long ways in 31 years. Would the 30-06 still be on the list given all the latest technology in bullet design? Better yet, would the "Forresty Department", contradict themselves and say the '06 was no longer acceptable in brown bear defense? Unless I've missed something, Brownies haven't spent the last 30+ years developing body armor technology. So the answer would be no.

But I'm still waiting to read what the bare minimum cartridge is for animals that bite back if the 30-06 shouldn't even be considered.

 

[BigBore44]

And it's kinda funny. Vanilla IS the most popular flavor. I saw that study 2 days ago.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Four years ago I asked a guy working behind the counter at Boondock Sporting Goods & Outfitters in Eagle River Alaska what was the most popular caliber rifle they sold.

His answer was .30-06. Was he right? I don't know. Is that the same answer today and would another employee have given the same answer? I don't know that either. Maybe it was just the first thing that came to his mind.

The Wal-Mart in Eagle River had many .30-06 rifles. But then again, lots .375's also.

An interesting link from Alaska Fish & Game regarding rifles & calibers... http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms

 

[BigBore44]

Cocked & Locked,
New study found. Thanks for posting that. I'm sure the late, great, Jack O'connor is smiling knowing his favorite cartridge is still capable as well.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I have a .30-06 bolt gun I have not shot since 2000. I have a combination gun in .30-06 that I have not yet shot. So, no, I'd say you are not missing anything.

Mike

 

[Nom de Forum]

Four years ago I asked a guy working behind the counter at Boondock Sporting Goods & Outfitters in Eagle River Alaska what was the most popular caliber rifle they sold.

His answer was .30-06. Was he right? I don't know. Is that the same answer today and would another employee have given the same answer? I don't know that either. Maybe it was just the first thing that came to his mind.

The Wal-Mart in Eagle River had many .30-06 rifles. But then again, lots .375's also.

An interesting link from Alaska Fish & Game regarding rifles & calibers... http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms

I am gratified that the Great State of Alaska agrees with my statement in post #103, "The bottom line is a bullet of strong enough construction, with high sectional density, from a medium caliber rifle fired accurately is known to get the job done."

 

[CraigC]

Popularity doesn't make something good. Just look at pop music.

An interesting link from Alaska Fish & Game regarding rifles & calibers...

All that article says is what I would hope most of us would say. That you're better off with a .30-06 you can shoot well than a .375 that you cannot. What it does not say is that the .30-06 is "just as good". A bigger hammer is still a bigger hammer.

You may even find yourself wondering why you are spending so much time with the care and feeding of all those other rifles that are more specialized.

I find myself wondering why I wouldn't want to.

Variety is the spice of life. I can't imagine wanting to hunt deer with a .30-06 when cartridges like the .260, 6.5x55, 7mm-08, .308 are better suited and recoil less. I don't expect its fans to understand or change their minds but folks should know that not everybody runs with the crowd.

PS, when I made the statement about critters that bite back, I wasn't talking about black bears and cougars.

 

[back40]

Pop music and guns are different in that guns don't gain popularity unless they do what you ask of them. There are very few popular, but ineffective guns.

Also, how is .308 better suited to deer hunting? The negligible difference in recoil doesn't come into play while hunting, and unless one is recoil sensitive, shouldn't hinder proper practice either.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Popularity doesn't make something good. Just look at pop music.

I find myself wondering why I wouldn't want to.

Variety is the spice of life. I can't imagine wanting to hunt deer with a .30-06 when cartridges like the .260, 6.5x55, 7mm-08, .308 are better suited and recoil less. I don't expect its fans to understand or change their minds but folks should know that not everybody runs with the crowd.

PS, when I made the statement about critters that bite back, I wasn't talking about black bears and cougars.

I agree: "Variety is the spice of life". After spending the first half of my life where that variety was primarily about different aspects of shooting, I am spending the second half on many completely different "spices". I am still very much interested in all things shooting but do far less of it and more importantly do it far more time efficiently with regard to proficiency and maintenance.

I do not see how any of the cartridges you listed are "better suited" other than in minor standard characteristics of trajectory and weight of platform. These two characteristics can be so nearly matched by an appropriate load and platform selection in .30-06 that they become insignificant. The same cannot be said about them when trying to match the performance of the -06 in heavier loadings.

I see nothing illogical with your choices for your needs or the desire for many to not "run with the crowd". At one time I was much like you in rifle choices and even more iconoclastic than I am now. Although I still very much enjoy discovering and exposing the clay feet of the idols of shooting. The only real thing to miss about the .30-06 is what so many have posted here. It is "the balance point", "the vanilla", "the One", for well handling most hunting situations when only one choice can be made. "A bigger hammer is still a bigger hammer" is true but not always desirable. Have you ever seen a War Hammer? The don't look anything like what is in Hollywood fantasies such a Conan the Barbarian. They are just big enough to have effective destructive mass while maintaining quick handling and prevent fatigue for the average knight. Kinda like a .30-06.

 

[Mike1234567]

I like vanilla... but I like various toppings. Most calibers offer many toppings.

I'm not a hunter but I'm sure I could easily get buy with a powerful .22 cal pellet rifle, .223 Rem, .308 Win and .458 SOCOM anywhere in the north American continent. Of course... this is from READING... not practical experience.

If I could have only ONE rifle for the entire NAC it would be a .30-06... again just from reading... and because it has the greatest "variety of toppings".

 

[Inebriated]

If you don't need a .30" 150-220gr bullet going down range at 3000-2700fps, then no, you don't need .30-06. Good all-around cartridge, great history, but if all you're shooting is white tail or smaller game, then you don't need it.

 

[BigBore44]

Ok Craig,
You weren't speaking of big cats and black bear. So you were only speaking of the biggest game that bites back. Not what was stated, but allowing someone to clarify is always benificial. But you state the 260, 6.5x55, 7mm-08, and 308 are better suited for deer. I'm not how the phrase "A bigger hammer is still a bigger hammer" applies to you caliber choice. The '06 fires "bigger hammers" than all of those other cartridges.

I do however agree that variety is wonderful. And I do not think you are in any way wrong for choosing other cartridges. There isn't anything wrong with any of those choices. Plenty capable for pronghorn, deer, elk, and, with a properly placed shot, moose. And there are many, many, cartridges just as capable as the few you mentioned. It would take all day to list them all. BUT, the 30-06, with it's plethora of options, not just in loads, but also rifle choices, is a testament to its versatility and popularity.

107 years of proven performance isn't a fad. It's a legacy. And a well deserved one at that.

 

[AABEN]

NO why buy a gun you will shoot paper with 2 times a year? Take that money buy more ammo so you can shoot more.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I think CraigC has some valid points from his perspective of being a multi-rifle owner. Here are some valid points from a multi-rifle owner, CraigB.


http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-30-06-still-americas-best/

 

[CraigC]

Pop music and guns are different in that guns don't gain popularity unless they do what you ask of them. There are very few popular, but ineffective guns.

I never said it was ineffective.

Also, how is .308 better suited to deer hunting? The negligible difference in recoil doesn't come into play while hunting, and unless one is recoil sensitive, shouldn't hinder proper practice either.

Less recoil, shorter, lighter rifles. Less of what you don't need. I have no problem with recoil or weight, I just prefer to trim the fat when it's unnecessary. The only significant advantage the .30-06 has over the .308 is with bullets over 180gr. IMHO, if you need more than that, you need more than the .30-06.

"A bigger hammer is still a bigger hammer" is true but not always desirable.

I was obviously referring to those situation where it is desirable.


Fact is, the .30-06's touted "versatility" is simply perception. There are plenty of other cartridges that cover the same ground and do just as well. The fact that there are over 100 posts in this thread, mostly worshiping the .30-06, is enough for me to disregard it. Just like the .357Mag in handguns. Over-hyped and over-rated. The magic exists only in the minds of their fans.

Personally, I don't have any kind of emotional tie to the `06. I might consider my perspective to be more objective, tainted only by my distaste for what is popular. I prefer blackpowder and leverguns anyway.