Am I missing something without a 30.06?
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Craig,
That's the great thing about we Americans. We have the luxury of preference. While I am not a black powder shooter, I love lever guns also. And your opinion or preference to like one over another is completely justifiable. Not just in your eyes, but mine also.
However, I do not believe any of the members, myself included, are "worshiping" the 30-06. We simply recognize and respect it for what it is; an extremely versatile cartridge with great historical significance. As stated by Mike1234567, in it's factory form, it is the vanilla ice cream of rifle cartridges. And to a reloader, it's got almost all the other flavorful toppings available.
That's the great thing about we Americans. We have the luxury of preference. While I am not a black powder shooter, I love lever guns also. And your opinion or preference to like one over another is completely justifiable. Not just in your eyes, but mine also.
However, I do not believe any of the members, myself included, are "worshiping" the 30-06. We simply recognize and respect it for what it is; an extremely versatile cartridge with great historical significance. As stated by Mike1234567, in it's factory form, it is the vanilla ice cream of rifle cartridges. And to a reloader, it's got almost all the other flavorful toppings available.
Craig, I know you didn't say it was ineffective, but you were suggesting that it's popularity didn't mean it was s good choice. My point is that it's popularity is a direct result of it's effectiveness, and it's ability to do a wide range of tasks quite well.
As I pointed out earlier, in the same rifle .308 means only 1/2" and maybe 6 ounces saved. Not enough to matter in my opinion, and a mild tradeoff to gain the ability to use heavier projectiles if desired.
As I pointed out earlier, in the same rifle .308 means only 1/2" and maybe 6 ounces saved. Not enough to matter in my opinion, and a mild tradeoff to gain the ability to use heavier projectiles if desired.
LRShooting
Member
Huh? I never said it had flaws. I said there was better options if one would want to have more than 1 gun. Like I said, 30-06 would be the gun to have if you only had one gun. Its great all around. However, like others said, its the jack of all trades, but not the best at any of them. So if you had 2 guns, why wouldn't you select 2 more suitable cartriges if you shot varmits and moose? As far as economics, it cost me 50 cents a bullet to reload for match components. Its literally impossible to do for 30-06 if using like components except for the cases because the powder charge, if kept as a percentage of case capacity equal, is higher. Also, cases can be found as low as 125$ a thousand for once fired NATO and should last 9 more rounds so 1.3 cents per case. I also found .308 when I couldn't find 30-06, so that issue could be regional.
I never once denied its abilities, and I don't think of cartridges as old or new, or magnums and non magnums. Those aren't even issues in my world, they are simply words used to describe. I will admit, 30-06 is a great all around gun, as put in my first post. It just wouldn't be my choice if I jumped up to other calibers. Regardless, thats what I get for not agreeing with a 30-06 as best round on a thread that asks if your missing something without a 30-06 lol.
Nom de Forum
Member
Craig,
No worshiping here for the .30-06, just appreciation for capability proven by a century+ of accomplishment. I am about the last gun guy that could be accurately described as sentimental about any particular cartridge that I use. I have a very "Roman" attitude about the deadly tools I use. I do however have a sentimental attitude for some firearms associated with good times with family and historical events.
No worshiping here for the .30-06, just appreciation for capability proven by a century+ of accomplishment. I am about the last gun guy that could be accurately described as sentimental about any particular cartridge that I use. I have a very "Roman" attitude about the deadly tools I use. I do however have a sentimental attitude for some firearms associated with good times with family and historical events.
LRShooting
Member
That actually makes perfect since when applied to any application almost..... We do like newer things (exotic). I almost wonder if it isn't just our whole generation that just wants to try everything new and not hold on too things. I honestly think that could be due to so many options being available and not being in a economic crisis.But Vanilla is such a popular flavor...liked by most and available many places. Most youngster like exotic flavors for some reason .
I don't have a .30-'06 and don't think I am missing something. Others have pointed out the .308 will do most of what the .30-'06 will do, my 6.5x55 will do most of what a .308 will do, with less blast and recoil (it matters when you're pushing 60). So far I've killed 10 animals with it from wild hogs to cow elk, all DRT with factory ammo.
.45 ACP is another story, I've got a bunch of them.
.45 ACP is another story, I've got a bunch of them.
I bought this as a barreled action, then found a stock, then found rings and bases, and then, put on a spare scope.
Did I need a 30-06 for sake of it being a 30-06? No. I bought a barreled action that happened to be a 30-06, for the action. I'll shoot it some, and work up some loads, and maybe even hunt with it. I can appreciate it for what it is. It shoots Berger VLD 168 gr less than an inch at 160 yds.
Does anyone need more than one rifle or only a handful of calibers? Or, a specific caliber? Not at all; but one can come to appreciate the limits, uses, and experiences of the difference between them.
And yes, that solid pad doesn't do much for the felt recoil....
Did I need a 30-06 for sake of it being a 30-06? No. I bought a barreled action that happened to be a 30-06, for the action. I'll shoot it some, and work up some loads, and maybe even hunt with it. I can appreciate it for what it is. It shoots Berger VLD 168 gr less than an inch at 160 yds.
Does anyone need more than one rifle or only a handful of calibers? Or, a specific caliber? Not at all; but one can come to appreciate the limits, uses, and experiences of the difference between them.
And yes, that solid pad doesn't do much for the felt recoil....
Cocked & Locked
Member
Nice rifle!
DRYHUMOR,
+1 on the beautiful rifle. Does it matter to me if it's an '06 or a 260 or a 300WM? Nope. I appreciate it for the asthetics, not the chambering.
LRShooting,
That fact may indeed be regional. And from a long range, match shooting, price, perspective (mainly due to powder charge) the 308 may have a couple cents over the '06....may. And dang it, I'm not knocking the 308, or any cartridge for that matter. I don't care if its factory non-magnums, Weatherby mags, Ackley Improveds, Lazzaroni's, WM, WSM, WSSM, RUM's, RSAUM's or any other wildcat cartridge. Mine (our) point is defending fictitious, presumed, inadequacies of one of the greatest, and most popular hunting cartridges of all time. How long does a round have to not just survive, but thrive, to earn respect. Many of the above mentioned cartridges will fall by the wayside. They will be replaced with something newer and mildly more flavorful. That seems to be the trend nowadays. And then only reloaders will be concerned with them. But NONE of them will ever have the history of the '06. And the '06 will still be here. Still putting down antelope, deer, elk, moose, cats, and bear, every year.
+1 on the beautiful rifle. Does it matter to me if it's an '06 or a 260 or a 300WM? Nope. I appreciate it for the asthetics, not the chambering.
LRShooting,
That fact may indeed be regional. And from a long range, match shooting, price, perspective (mainly due to powder charge) the 308 may have a couple cents over the '06....may. And dang it, I'm not knocking the 308, or any cartridge for that matter. I don't care if its factory non-magnums, Weatherby mags, Ackley Improveds, Lazzaroni's, WM, WSM, WSSM, RUM's, RSAUM's or any other wildcat cartridge. Mine (our) point is defending fictitious, presumed, inadequacies of one of the greatest, and most popular hunting cartridges of all time. How long does a round have to not just survive, but thrive, to earn respect. Many of the above mentioned cartridges will fall by the wayside. They will be replaced with something newer and mildly more flavorful. That seems to be the trend nowadays. And then only reloaders will be concerned with them. But NONE of them will ever have the history of the '06. And the '06 will still be here. Still putting down antelope, deer, elk, moose, cats, and bear, every year.
savanahsdad
Member
ok .. 7.62X63
even better if you neck it down to .277 sorry, some days I just can't help myself
savanahsdad
Member
Eb1,
While we were talking about rifle cartridges, I cannot disagree with you. It is truly one of those guns that has all the bases covered pretty well. ~150 yards it's perfectly capable of taking anything on this continent. With a pump 12 with the proper barrel and slugs and 00 as backup, I would feel very comfortable walking anywhere dangerous critters roam.
I like j1's signature a lot. "The 30-06 is never a mistake".....So true.
While we were talking about rifle cartridges, I cannot disagree with you. It is truly one of those guns that has all the bases covered pretty well. ~150 yards it's perfectly capable of taking anything on this continent. With a pump 12 with the proper barrel and slugs and 00 as backup, I would feel very comfortable walking anywhere dangerous critters roam.
I like j1's signature a lot. "The 30-06 is never a mistake".....So true.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I wouldn't. Shotgun slugs are not the Hammer of Thor that people think they are.
Inebriated
Member
Well then go tell that to all the predators that mistakenly fell to a shotgun.
We get it, Craig, you've got everything figured out and all things popular are a lie and don't work. Your work here is done.
savanahsdad
Member
no you didn't say "other" but Jack O'conner had a few favorites, the 270win being written about the most and others not so much , but where you slipped that post in one might think you meant O'Conner's favorite was the 30-06 , I had to read it twice to see that was not what you meant , the "as well" at the end is what threw me , ,, any way I'm sure he is , I have 4 of his beloved 270's
savanahsdad
Member
savanahsdad,
I know Jack had a few favorites. But when the name Jack O'connor is mention, (most) people instantly think 270. And I wasn't trying to get extra (celebrity) support for the '06. But I can see how it appeared that way.
CraigC,
Please, oh please will you start an informative thread so all us uneducated folk can be learned on what guns are good? I so don't want to be in the dark ages any more. And seeing as how your a "Contributing Member" with over 10,000 posts, you must omnipotent when it comes to all things firearms. Last time I checked the the real Thor's Hammer would be the 950 JDJ. So don't go anywhere without that gun guys. You'll be in grave danger. Only the real Thor's Hammer can keep you safe.
Disclamer: No offense to any other "Contributing Members" or any other member with more than 10,000 posts intended.
I know Jack had a few favorites. But when the name Jack O'connor is mention, (most) people instantly think 270. And I wasn't trying to get extra (celebrity) support for the '06. But I can see how it appeared that way.
CraigC,
Please, oh please will you start an informative thread so all us uneducated folk can be learned on what guns are good? I so don't want to be in the dark ages any more. And seeing as how your a "Contributing Member" with over 10,000 posts, you must omnipotent when it comes to all things firearms. Last time I checked the the real Thor's Hammer would be the 950 JDJ. So don't go anywhere without that gun guys. You'll be in grave danger. Only the real Thor's Hammer can keep you safe.
Disclamer: No offense to any other "Contributing Members" or any other member with more than 10,000 posts intended.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Here's a hint, there is a very good reason why nobody uses a shotgun with slugs in Africa. While that massive three quarter inch bore is impressive to the eye, slugs don't have what it takes for deep penetration on heavy game. There is no magic.
There's no reason to get personal or defensive. There's also no reason for this discussion to degrade into a free-for-all. I didn't spit on your dog or talk about your momma. We don't all have to like the same thing and yes, believe it or not, some people still believe in myths.
There's a reason why big, dangerous critters are stopped by big, heavy rifles and not shotguns. There's a reason why they use .375's, .450/.400's, .416's, .404's, .458's, .470's and .500's. Not only do those cartridges utilize large diameter bullets but they are also heavy for their caliber. Yes, a slug will stomp a deer pretty good but they lack the sectional density that is usually required for deep penetration on heavy game. People seem to freak out when I bring up sectional density, as if I'm trying to fool them with a magic trick but SD is simply the easiest way to compare heavy bullets to one another. It is very well proven what cartridges work best on the heaviest of game. The one thing they all have in common is that they use toughly constructed, large diameter bullets but that isn't enough. They must also be heavy for their diameter and the number we use to determine that is sectional density. I'm sorry but it is not an earth shattering revelation that a shotgun slug with a sectional density from .117 (1oz Foster) to a best of .233 (Dixie Terminator) is not going to penetrate as well as a .450/.400 slinging a 400gr with an SD of .338, the .416Rigby slinging a 400gr with an SD of .330 or a .458 slinging a 500gr with an SD of .350.
In penetration testing, shotgun slugs penetrate how we should expect them to. Comparable to handgun bullets of comparable SD and velocity. They just make a bigger hole.
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