One possibility I haven't seen considered is that the 30SC may/could be the start of a new cartridge line - head dimensions - and if it takes off could engender new cartridges. As I'm singularly focused on a 380 replacement, maybe the designers have in mind a 30SC "Kurz" (Short) - that would prevent the current 30SC from disastrously feeding into the shorter chamber.
Any opinions on the .30 Super Carry cartridge
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RetiredUSNChief
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I'm not enthusiastic that this will take off into something.
A .30 SC is .312" in diameter (7.925 mm), weighing in at 100 gr. That's smaller than a 9mm in diameter and significantly lighter.
And before we get into velocity and energy, all that is going realistically buy you is hole punching ability, as it's essentially on par with a 9mm.
Well, I suppose an increased capacity, given that the OAL is equivalent to a 9mm while being smaller in diameter.
But there's more to a bullet's performance than punching a hole, though that's arguably a very important one. Mass is important too, for reasons that can't be made up simply by velocity.
Also, consider that you can only get so much performance out of a pistol round because "physics". And practicality. Dropping bullet diameter and mass down requires other changes which only begin to make up for the differences in performance...and won't equal many, regardless of what you do.
I don't see what benefits the .30 SC gives that is really any better than what's already available out there in the market. And what benefits it does provide are marginal at best.
That said...I say "have at it" to anybody who wants something in .30 SC. Shooting is fun, whatever it is.
A .30 SC is .312" in diameter (7.925 mm), weighing in at 100 gr. That's smaller than a 9mm in diameter and significantly lighter.
And before we get into velocity and energy, all that is going realistically buy you is hole punching ability, as it's essentially on par with a 9mm.
Well, I suppose an increased capacity, given that the OAL is equivalent to a 9mm while being smaller in diameter.
But there's more to a bullet's performance than punching a hole, though that's arguably a very important one. Mass is important too, for reasons that can't be made up simply by velocity.
Also, consider that you can only get so much performance out of a pistol round because "physics". And practicality. Dropping bullet diameter and mass down requires other changes which only begin to make up for the differences in performance...and won't equal many, regardless of what you do.
I don't see what benefits the .30 SC gives that is really any better than what's already available out there in the market. And what benefits it does provide are marginal at best.
That said...I say "have at it" to anybody who wants something in .30 SC. Shooting is fun, whatever it is.
Not much, I agree, but that was also the case for the 30-40 Krag, the .45 Auto, and the 7.62x51. In each case they moved toward a higher pressure cartridge. The 30SC is higher pressure. It kind of puts me in mind of the changeover from the M-14 to the M-16 - the basic load changed from 100 rounds to 220 rounds. Right now the only real advantage of the 30SC is an increase in round count.
Yes, and the velocity is higher.
What might that be, except for knocking down pins?
Mass and velocityy are significant contributors, along with bullet shape and construction, to penetration. And theory aside, the penetration of the .30 SC is pretty impressive.
iI my choice of handgun, it enables greater capacity, which otherwise would require greater width.
Every performance increase in anything is "marginal"; what is important is the size of the margin. The one-round increase from a five shot revolver to a six shot revolver may seem insignificant intuitively, but a little analysis tells us that it can be pretty important.
someguy2800
Member
No personal experience but apparently I'm not allowed to like it. I found out on the internet.
Jim Watson
Member
At one time Colt advertised the Detective Special with "That all important shot, the sixth one." Take THAT S&W Chief's Special.
Yes, I remember that.
I also remember "20% more capacity', though the increase in the probability of the defender's sucess in a shooting encounter can be a markedly higher than 20%.
westernrover
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30 SC is the child of 10% gel and the FBI standard. Ballisticians figured out how to get 12-18" and dependable expansion from 9x19mm hollowpoint projectiles. Certain influential authorities like Buford Boone made popular the theory that achieving that is the only meaningful criteria for handgun terminal ballistic performance. Engineers challenged themselves to accomplish the same with 30 SC and they succeeded. The bottom line (for the believers in the theory) is that 30 SC can do 12-18" with expansion in 10% gel and therefore it is as good as any other cartridge in terms of terminal ballistics. It has obvious advantages in dimensional size for magazine capacity and obvious disadvantages in popularity and therefore economy of scale. Any concern about the terminal performance would have to come from an alternate theory to the 10% gel standard and those other theories are presently reduced to the fringes of internet dissidents.
Dont have that answer as I’ve never tried. As I said previously, it needs to be in more platforms before I would try it.
I would put it differently.
Any concern about the effectiveness of the .30 SC would have to come from shortcomings in real world performance.
I tend to doubt that any such information is likely to materialize any time soon, because the load is intended for civilian carry; we would not expect to see much in the way of actual performance data.
The question was rhetorical.. The reviews say that the recoil is approximately the same. That means that the9 mm size freames should hold up just fine.
Is the recoil approximately the same, though? Most of the loads I read about have approx. 350fpe, while the Federal Punch appears to have around 300fpe. On a percentage basis that would be a significant reduction of energy and commensurately lower recoil.
Recoil is a function of momentum, not recoil.
I have not multiplied the bullet weights by the repecive velocities.
Okay. That may be more reasonable than the formulas that derive fpe - in that, they overuse use velocity by using it to derive both initial impulse and then again for fpe.
I'd still like to try it with Punch ammunition compared to the hotter loads.
Newton. Velocity and mass define energy and momentum.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
To avoid apples and oranges here, the .30 SC is a pistol cartridge, not a rifle cartridge.
The distinction being that rifles can far more easily be designed and manufactured with significantly more performance with respect to terminal ballistics than for a pistol. Again, physics. So I didn't wish to compare the development of this round with that of rifle rounds.
Now...if they came up with a really cool looking pistol that esthetically appealed to me? I might buy one. But not for the round itself.
The distinction being that rifles can far more easily be designed and manufactured with significantly more performance with respect to terminal ballistics than for a pistol. Again, physics. So I didn't wish to compare the development of this round with that of rifle rounds.
Now...if they came up with a really cool looking pistol that esthetically appealed to me? I might buy one. But not for the round itself.
I'll probably buy one of these. The 380 locally is about $459, the 9mm about $500, the online price of the 30SC is about $280. 380 ammo is full price, I have enough 9mm to last so no extra cost for that, and 30SC ammo is a little discounted, though I doubt the Federal Punch ammo has flash-suppressed powder, so I'll need some HST or similar.
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