jcwit
member
I don't think I'd go so far as calling new shooters idiots, but you know for the average person buying a gas guzzler during a fuel shortage is definitely not the sharpest tack in the box.
Are you buying ammo at higher than market prices?
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I don't think I'd go so far as calling new shooters idiots, but you know for the average person buying a gas guzzler during a fuel shortage is definitely not the sharpest tack in the box.
larryh1108
Member
Well, we can agree to disagree on this statement. We've been thru many gas crunches and when gas is at an all time high (again), the gaz guzzlers sit and the prices get chopped to move them. Now, if you've been thru this before and always wanted that fancy gas eater then you are actually smarter for buying it during a gas crunch than when there is plenty of gas and demand.
I believe that if this .22LR shortage continues until next year, you'll see a large quantity of .22LR guns on the market for cheap prices. That will be the time to buy if you are looking for these types of guns. Buy them to use or buy them to speculate but the prices will be right.
Actually I didn't say that. That was directed at people that bought Wii consoles for $500 or paid $200 for a pair of basketball shoes.
I think anyone that buys anything at an absurd price unless that item is an absolute necessity of life is kind of leaning in that direction. Unless of course said person isn't worried about money. People who buy a Mazerati and pay cash aren't idiots. People who paid $1500 for a DPMS AR-15 last January or who pay $89 for a brick of Remington 22......
jcwit
member
Well in my mind I never had the inclination to buy the gas guzzler and make the Arabs more money. Money in the bank was definitely a bonus, and no monthly payments are a big advantage, but I realize most of the American people do not see it this way.
Mike1234567
member
My last post in this thread on this particular subject (selling my ammo).
Now, Duckdog: Why would I sell my ammo for less than I can buy it for? You're not going to buy any .22 LR for 4 cents/rd anywhere... maybe never again. It seems to me, if you really think I'm in a financial hurt, that you're trying to take advantage of my personal misfortune. IMHO, that's far colder than scalping.
I retract my offer to sell any ammo on THR. It's all going on GB.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well...sure. Or actually, they'll shoot up that prize and then buy more at a cheaper price and... well, what? They'll have paid too much for some ammo once. Or they keep it stockpiled. Again, so what? They paid "too much" for it, but there it sits, as good as it ever was for decades, at least. I think most people buying .22 right now are grumbling about the price (or cheering that WalMart had it in stock) but it doesn't really hurt them in any way. Shoot it, keep it, whatever.
Heck, a few years ago I paid WAY too much for gas for a while. And I was driving a huge gas-guzzling work truck at the time. And today ... so what? Do I feel "stuck with my prize?" Nah. It happened and life went on.
Will there be some folks who get STUCK with ammo they intended to "flip" and now can't make a lot of money on? Heck, probably. That's finance for you. Every investment is a risk. But the thing is, if they bought it for $20 a brick, they'll sell some of it for $50 a brick. They'll sell a lot of it for $40 a brick. Then as things loosen up they'll sell some of it for $30 a brick. Then whenever the prices finally go flat, they'll still be selling off the last of it for $20-25 a brick. That's not really a loss, you know. That's still a lot of net profit along the way, and even if they're totally STUCK with it, they break even.
The people they sold a few bricks to at $50/brick? They aren't exactly going to go commit seppuku over it. They got to shoot some when they wanted to. Or they've got some in the case for next time. They aren't going to starve or lose their houses over it. (Unless they're total idiots and would have done so anyway...)
Oh sure. They're working on it. They'll bring on production as they can. But as I pointed out, that takes a lot of time to get moving. And a LOOOOT of money. And a lot of market study to prove to themselves and their investors that this isn't just a panic bubble that's going to leave them with vast production capacity that they don't have buyers for, come 2016 or 2020. Remember, if a company invests $30 million in a new production facility, they're going to be paying that off for A WHILE. If this current demand bubble doesn't keep raging on, they stand to be paying the notes and taxes, and employees (for a while) on a production line that they don't even bother to run. Wanna kill a business fast? Make a tragically misguided investment of that magnitude.
I really just don't see it. All the positive benefits of millions of new gun owners and vast amounts of money infusing our favorite gun and ammo companies, and all the messages that sends to our political types, but we're somehow harming ourselves and our sport/passion/rights/future because ammo's gone up in price or is a little more difficult to locate for a year or so? Naaah. Don't stress it.
orionengnr
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A week ago, I stopped in at my LGS. She had just a couple 500-round boxes of Blazer .22LR. She offered me one, and I took it...and offered it to my friend and co-worker, who takes Boy Scouts out shooting whenever he has the range time and ammo.
That was $24 for 500 rounds...better than I've seen in a long time. He was happy to get it for that price, and he and his Scouts will burn it up this weekend.
And I'll get him some more as soon as I can. And my hat is off to my LGS for offering it to me and to Jim at that price. There are still some decent people left in this world.
That was $24 for 500 rounds...better than I've seen in a long time. He was happy to get it for that price, and he and his Scouts will burn it up this weekend.
And I'll get him some more as soon as I can. And my hat is off to my LGS for offering it to me and to Jim at that price. There are still some decent people left in this world.
Doubleobuck
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No I'm not buying any ammo
jcwit
member
None of us know for a fact that all these gun sales to millions of folks were/are in fact new gun owners. Nore do we know what the % is.
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Sure. But so what? Selling ammo is selling ammo. Money flowing like a river to gun and ammo manufacturers, wholesalers, distributors, retailers. I think that's great! I hope they're using it wisely, reinvesting it, doing deferred maintenance, expanding, improving, developing their distribution/logistics lines ... or heck, just getting rich for providing Americans with more guns and ammo! Hooray for it!
And YEAH, we do know that SOME of it is going to however many new shooters there are, because otherwise they wouldn't BE shooters (hence, shoot-ing).
And those new shooters are buying it for some price. Maybe they're buying it at $20 a brick from WalMart when they can find it. Maybe they're buying it at $50/brick off of GunBroker because they want it NOW. That doesn't HURT our sport.
You and I can't fathom such high prices for ammo. We're use to blowing through it by the brick. But the new folks coming into the scene only know this current reality. And they're joining it anyway! If prices come down to $30 a brick on average, they'll think things are AWESOME.
And YEAH, we do know that SOME of it is going to however many new shooters there are, because otherwise they wouldn't BE shooters (hence, shoot-ing).
And those new shooters are buying it for some price. Maybe they're buying it at $20 a brick from WalMart when they can find it. Maybe they're buying it at $50/brick off of GunBroker because they want it NOW. That doesn't HURT our sport.
You and I can't fathom such high prices for ammo. We're use to blowing through it by the brick. But the new folks coming into the scene only know this current reality. And they're joining it anyway! If prices come down to $30 a brick on average, they'll think things are AWESOME.
huntsman
Member
FWIW the original comment had nothing to do with new shooters but with folks who chase the latest shoe or stand in line for a game
Guilty. I never hoarded ammo before, but just the other day I was at Wal-mart early, saw 6 boxes of WWB 9mm. Bought 3, wandered around until a bit later after shift change and bought the other 3. Shooting one box this weekend, rest have been put up in an ammo can. They have plenty of .40, .45, 5.56/223, rarely 9mm, hardly ever .22. Haven't seen .38 or .357 in quite a while.
jcwit
member
Sam, as I've mentioned earlier one of the ranges I belong to sponsors our count 4-H shooting sports group, amounting to 800 members this year. We provide the firearms, ammo, range, and of course targets.
If it had not been for Federal and their program for junior shooter clubs and our group winning one of the 30 drawings it is very doubtful if it would have continued for this year and the next. But as luck, yes luck would have it, it was salvaged because we were one of 30 clubs across the U.S. to be fortunate enough to win the lottery.
Now explain to me and our members again how this madness is not hurting our sport, and future shooters. Make it simple as I'm obviously not the sharpest tack in the box either.LOL
If it had not been for Federal and their program for junior shooter clubs and our group winning one of the 30 drawings it is very doubtful if it would have continued for this year and the next. But as luck, yes luck would have it, it was salvaged because we were one of 30 clubs across the U.S. to be fortunate enough to win the lottery.
Now explain to me and our members again how this madness is not hurting our sport, and future shooters. Make it simple as I'm obviously not the sharpest tack in the box either.LOL
I am also very guilty.
And I know six guys in Las Vegas, four of whom voted for Harry Reid, that bought their first guns last year. Three bought handguns and three bought shotguns, all for SD. Four are married with children. And as far as I know none of them have had any exposure to firearms. All three who bought handguns have completed their CC permits. And one of them called me last week to get advice on a good deer gun for beginners.
So tell me, how is this madness not helping our sport?
jcwit
member
Six idiots, yes idiots as they voted for reid and one guy asking about a deer rifle for a junior is a whole lot different than 800 junior shooters, in one county. Yup 6 dudes out of a population of almost 600,000 is a real BIG help.
Population of Las Vegas alone is 6 times what the population of our entire county is.
Population of Las Vegas alone is 6 times what the population of our entire county is.
jcwit
member
Being as I'm obviously not the sharpest tack in the box, I have no idea. But I sure can see and recognize the problem or at least part of it.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Isn't it obvious? You have so many shooters out there buying ammo -- including all those folks coming to your club -- that clubs have to resort to extraordinary measures just to meet the ammo demand!
"Too many" people out there shooting (and buying ammo for whatever reason...eating it, I don't care) is a GREAT thing!
I guess you can wish and hope and long for the days when your club had tons of ammo and only a handful of participants to come shoot it, but I won't. One boom goes hand-in-hand with the other. All sides of the same coin.
And if you say you've seen no great corresponding increase in your numbers of participants, then yeah, I'm sorry things aren't easy for your regulars, but we're all in the same boat here (unless, of course, you hoarded up before hand and can share some out with them) -- and they got off very well through the foresight and generosity of Federal -- who is able to do that through the abundance of their profits from massive sales.
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
And why are you still doing the "poor dumb me" routine? It's fake and silly, and should be beneath you. I get that you don't agree, or at least see what I see the way I see it, but just say, "Hey, I don't understand, can you explain it better?" Or a simple, "I think you're wrong about that, and here's why..."
That's a whole lot more becoming than this, "Ohh, I'm a poor dumb slug without a clue in my empty head -- speak slow and use short words so I git it," business. It is off-putting.
That's a whole lot more becoming than this, "Ohh, I'm a poor dumb slug without a clue in my empty head -- speak slow and use short words so I git it," business. It is off-putting.
Please point out, specifically, who said that.
Especially the "prices are here to stay" part.
The price right now is what it is right now, but I don't recall anybody saying that $55 for a 525 round bulk box of Federal .22lr was "here to stay"
The problem is a lot of demand for the supply at this time.
Why is there so much demand? Because of the politicians. Because of an expanding cadre of shooters. Because of the politicians.
danez71
Member
How about trying to not answer a question with a question? Are you trying to have a meaningful conversation or are you just trying to turn this into a <deleted> to deflect away from actually providing any meaning input?
jcwit provided an example of a club full of kids wanting to learn to shoot.
Agsalaska provided a handful of adults that apparently never took interest until the panic that also happen to have a few kids that the adults may or may not be including.
+~50 (+1 for ea. kid in the club) to jcwit
+7.5 (+ .75 for ea. adult late comer & possible kid ) to agsalaska
Or maybe they don't buy it AT ALL.
Tons of people get into new hobbies only to realize they don't want to put in the commitment of funds to keep it going. Hence the reason why there are roughly 2.321 bazillion snow ski's, gym equipment, ping pong tables, mountain bikes etc etc. collecting dust in garages all of the nation.
That does ZERO for our sport or worst, hurt it because all they did was fuel the panic fire and leave.
Do you think these new shooter live in a vacuum?
Do you think they haven't been told by other longer terms shooter that prices were much lower before... that they should be coming down?
Do you think that these new shooters that joined THR and have seen these seemingly endless threads about the high price for the past YEAR+... and that some of them wished they knew this BEFORE they bought a gun and couldn't find ammo?
The end sum game here is that if new shooters cant get ammo or that ammo is prohibitively expensive, most of the new shooters will lose interest and not continue. It happens in every hobby/sport (as Sam1911 did).
Yes. I said hobby/sport. Most getting in now "because of the panic" were not particularly Pro 2A otherwise they more than likely would not have waited until a "panic". The exception mainly being people that were underage until the panic hit.
If people are shooting less, shooting ranges go out of business.. further making it difficult for new and existing shooters to further their journey. Gun shops start hurting and go out of business.
Typically, the most beneficial thing to come out of a shortage is increased supply capacity.
Since we haven't seen much of that, overall, the shortage is doing more harm that good no matter how many times our beloved armchair internet economists try to spin it...
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danez71
Member
I don't know if any of them are the one in this thread... and I don't want to figure it out... but....
There have been post on THR that 'basically' say these prices are here to stay.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I don't think anyone feels that more shooters is a bad thing.
I guess the breakdown is over whether A) there are tons of new shooters and they and the old shooters together are buying tons of ammo these days so we all have to pay higher prices because of pretty straightforward supply-and-demand, or B) there are some new shooters but a small group is buying up the vast majority of the ammo so the rest of us (old and new shooters alike) can't find any or have to pay even higher prices than we would if it was just ... well, like regular inflated demand.
Honestly, I don't think there's any real way to PROVE either view. I lean more toward the first version, but I certainly understand that there are some people just buying lots of ammo at every possible opportunity. Does it really matter in the end?
About half of us seem to be "doing our part" to end the shortage by not buying any .22 ammo for a year or more now. Is it helping? A lot of us seem to be buying some when we can find it because we're low, or because we don't want to be caught like this again. Is that somehow wrong? Should we abstain?
I guess the breakdown is over whether A) there are tons of new shooters and they and the old shooters together are buying tons of ammo these days so we all have to pay higher prices because of pretty straightforward supply-and-demand, or B) there are some new shooters but a small group is buying up the vast majority of the ammo so the rest of us (old and new shooters alike) can't find any or have to pay even higher prices than we would if it was just ... well, like regular inflated demand.
Honestly, I don't think there's any real way to PROVE either view. I lean more toward the first version, but I certainly understand that there are some people just buying lots of ammo at every possible opportunity. Does it really matter in the end?
About half of us seem to be "doing our part" to end the shortage by not buying any .22 ammo for a year or more now. Is it helping? A lot of us seem to be buying some when we can find it because we're low, or because we don't want to be caught like this again. Is that somehow wrong? Should we abstain?
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