Broken11b
Member
Did someone warn the OP that there would be hundreds of suggestions with almost no consensus?
Best home defense rifle?
- Thread starter stogiegila
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1-12 INF (M)
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Remington 870. Nobody is gonna stick around after hearing you pump that slide.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
It is pretty clearly a pistol caliber round. It basically has ballistics inferior to a .22 magnum out of a rifle length barrel and it performs like a pistol round in gel. Note that the expanded hollowpoints in that test reach the unexpanded diameter of a 9mm FMJ and penetrate less than 10" in gel. Even assuming you are willing to sacrifice some of the FBI recommended 12" minimum due to the different scenario (home defense vs. law enforcement needs), at some point you are going to get diminishing returns from a small wound channel and shallow penetration.
As to comparing it to a 5.56... the PS90 launches a 40gr VMAX at around 2,000fps. That is about 1,350fps slower than a .223 40gr VMAX out of a 16" barrel, which makes for a dramatically different effect.
RockyMtnTactical
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AR15 carbine
Zerodefect
member
My home defense options:
Colt le6920 (AR15)- Magpul furnature, Ambi safety, Bad lever, BCM large charging handle, Aimpoint ML3 in a Larue lt129 mount, diamondhead BUIS. 5.56 1/7
Works well, light recoil, a bit long.
FN PS90-Aimpoint ML3 in a Tros usa low mount, Side rails, laser, Surefire G2led light.
Super fast handleing (light and small, nimble), no recoil, reliable, but it needs custom ammo if you want to meet FBI recommended penetration in gel.
Glock 23 Too many mods to list. My CCW, so it's allways nearby I grab this or my 1911 before I reach for the above rifles.
Kimber CDP 5" 1911 I don't allways have the luxery of time to inspect bumps in the night. Don't have time to throw on my holster. The 1911, thanks to its safety can be stuffed in my belt a a moments notice, doing that with my Glock would swiss cheese me quickly. For example awnsering the door at night, need someplace to put that gun that I no longer need. IMO, my Glock is only safe in its holster.
Guns I've tried for home defense but will not use cause they don't work for me at all:
12 gauge shotty- overpen, heavy, too long, slow as tar, impossible to reload under stress.
Anything without full ambi controls.
Anything without a pistol grip (you can't shoot a M1 or Mini14 from the Supine position.
Anything that deosn't have sights that can be aimed with out glasses or contacts. Im near sighted, and may not be able to find my glasses, I can use an Aimpoint with out corrective lenses.
Anything that cannot accept a reddot Aimpoint or Eotech.
Colt le6920 (AR15)- Magpul furnature, Ambi safety, Bad lever, BCM large charging handle, Aimpoint ML3 in a Larue lt129 mount, diamondhead BUIS. 5.56 1/7
Works well, light recoil, a bit long.
FN PS90-Aimpoint ML3 in a Tros usa low mount, Side rails, laser, Surefire G2led light.
Super fast handleing (light and small, nimble), no recoil, reliable, but it needs custom ammo if you want to meet FBI recommended penetration in gel.
Glock 23 Too many mods to list. My CCW, so it's allways nearby I grab this or my 1911 before I reach for the above rifles.
Kimber CDP 5" 1911 I don't allways have the luxery of time to inspect bumps in the night. Don't have time to throw on my holster. The 1911, thanks to its safety can be stuffed in my belt a a moments notice, doing that with my Glock would swiss cheese me quickly. For example awnsering the door at night, need someplace to put that gun that I no longer need. IMO, my Glock is only safe in its holster.
Guns I've tried for home defense but will not use cause they don't work for me at all:
12 gauge shotty- overpen, heavy, too long, slow as tar, impossible to reload under stress.
Anything without full ambi controls.
Anything without a pistol grip (you can't shoot a M1 or Mini14 from the Supine position.
Anything that deosn't have sights that can be aimed with out glasses or contacts. Im near sighted, and may not be able to find my glasses, I can use an Aimpoint with out corrective lenses.
Anything that cannot accept a reddot Aimpoint or Eotech.
stogiegila
Member
Thanks for all the input everyone. I have a lot of researching to do. While I understand handgun calibers, I don't have a clue on rifle calibers. I definitely don't want something that will overpenetrate, and where I live in AZ, my handguns can take care of any critters other than the two legged kind for when the SHTF.
Since when is a shotgun a rifle? No one is asking which is the best HD shotgun.
I'd have to add another vote for a 16" AR. It's fairly small, lightweight, ergonomic, and handy. You don't have to spend a ton of money to get one. It has a lot of "extra" rounds available to dispense if needed. .223 is cheap enough to get in a good amount of practice with. You can customize the thing until the cows come home. If you need more than one round you don't have to operate a lever or a pump action....you just pull the trigger again. It's easy to teach someone else how to operate and someone who is recoil-sensitive won't be too offended by it. .223 is no joke either.
I wouldn't want to fire one in my bedroom with no hearing protection but that applies to any gun.
I'd have to add another vote for a 16" AR. It's fairly small, lightweight, ergonomic, and handy. You don't have to spend a ton of money to get one. It has a lot of "extra" rounds available to dispense if needed. .223 is cheap enough to get in a good amount of practice with. You can customize the thing until the cows come home. If you need more than one round you don't have to operate a lever or a pump action....you just pull the trigger again. It's easy to teach someone else how to operate and someone who is recoil-sensitive won't be too offended by it. .223 is no joke either.
I wouldn't want to fire one in my bedroom with no hearing protection but that applies to any gun.
Hammerhead6814
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Rifle? Hi-Point 995TS/4095TS. Or AK.
Why on earth would you use an AR? Being more expensive, with more costly ammo, and with sights for longer ranges than what homes have.
Seriously, who here has more than 25 yards length in a single room in their house? Your using a weapon designed for distance and good accuracy at said distance, in a scenario where there isn't much. At ranges under 100 yards anyone will tell you an AK has an advantage when it comes to energy. Plus mags are $10 if that. Ammo is less than .20 cents a round (practice people), and generally they're shorter than AR's.
Me, it's a Hi-Point. .40 S&W from a 16 and 1/2 inch barrel is like a 45-70 lite round. Under 50 yards of course. Plus it's accurate, cheap, ammo is cheap, mags are cheap, fits lights, and is light-weight. How does all of the above not fit a close-quarters rifle?
But of course, nothing scares someone ten feet away like the rack of an 870.
Where is this magical land? The land where you can buy .223 that's cheap? Don't say Cabelas. I was just there.
Why on earth would you use an AR? Being more expensive, with more costly ammo, and with sights for longer ranges than what homes have.
Seriously, who here has more than 25 yards length in a single room in their house? Your using a weapon designed for distance and good accuracy at said distance, in a scenario where there isn't much. At ranges under 100 yards anyone will tell you an AK has an advantage when it comes to energy. Plus mags are $10 if that. Ammo is less than .20 cents a round (practice people), and generally they're shorter than AR's.
Me, it's a Hi-Point. .40 S&W from a 16 and 1/2 inch barrel is like a 45-70 lite round. Under 50 yards of course. Plus it's accurate, cheap, ammo is cheap, mags are cheap, fits lights, and is light-weight. How does all of the above not fit a close-quarters rifle?
But of course, nothing scares someone ten feet away like the rack of an 870.
atomd said:
Where is this magical land? The land where you can buy .223 that's cheap? Don't say Cabelas. I was just there.
FMJMIKE
Member
M1 Carbine...........
Really if anyone seriously thinks about this topic, it's a no brainer. A high velocity rifle will go through several walls and potentiall strike an inncocent victim. A 12 gauge shotgun is the logical choice. In my Remington 870 police issue, I load this way 3 bird shot shells 1 00 shell, 2 more bird shot and last shell is another 00. Even at a short distance bird shot will do alot of damage, if the attacker is sill coming the 00 should put the agressor down dead with a chest or head shot.
For your shoulder problem, go to a shorten pistol grip assault type of stock. Any type of 12 ga. pump will do or a semi auto shotgun.
For those of you that suggested high velocity rifle rounds, how are you going to feel if you accidently kill a member of your family or a neighbor. You're still libel for their injuries/death, even if it's an accident!
For your shoulder problem, go to a shorten pistol grip assault type of stock. Any type of 12 ga. pump will do or a semi auto shotgun.
For those of you that suggested high velocity rifle rounds, how are you going to feel if you accidently kill a member of your family or a neighbor. You're still libel for their injuries/death, even if it's an accident!
KodiakBeer
member
Hello? He has a bad shoulder. Do you think shooting a 12 gauge with a pistol grip is going to be less stressful on his shoulder? Google up rotator cuff...
Zerodefect
member
00 buck or pistol rounds will penetrate far further than a 5.56 bullet.
Especially the lighter highspeed 5.56 rounds, walls tear small bullets apart and they lose energy quickly. If your worried about that, just select the proper ammo for your AR.
Especially the lighter highspeed 5.56 rounds, walls tear small bullets apart and they lose energy quickly. If your worried about that, just select the proper ammo for your AR.
Gritacular
Member
My yard is my home also. Problem:
Inside......pistol
both.........shotgun
outside.....rifle
.223 /5.56x45 are known for very managable recoil. I'm looking at a Kel-Tec SU-16c (same ammo and mags as AR's) right now. Some say there is less percieved recoil then on an AR type weapon, and it is lighter and cheaper than nearly all of them.
Inside......pistol
both.........shotgun
outside.....rifle
.223 /5.56x45 are known for very managable recoil. I'm looking at a Kel-Tec SU-16c (same ammo and mags as AR's) right now. Some say there is less percieved recoil then on an AR type weapon, and it is lighter and cheaper than nearly all of them.
Broken11b
Member
Once again, the 223 will penetrate less than most 12 gauge and handguns, Im getting tired of this myth showing up every time this category is brought up.
Gritacular
Member
"how are you going to feel if you accidently kill a member of your family or a neighbor. You're still libel for their injuries/death, even if it's an accident!"
Well if I don't write about it will it only be considered slander?
Sorry, could not resist.
Well if I don't write about it will it only be considered slander?
Sorry, could not resist.
This is very speculative as what may be best for me may not be best for you or anyone else for that matter. Members here will post what they feel is best based on their own prejudices and opinions, but hey that is what makes this place great. Me personally I use a Marlin 1894SS .44 mag launching a 240gr XTP-HP of love But I have no nearby neighbors or children to worry about. Since you have a bum shoulder I would take a serious look at the Marlin 1894 in .357 mag or if you can afford it possibly a AR type rifle. Recoil from both should be light enough so as not to bother your shoulder.
If a BG gets into my house however they have to worry about my early detection system first then me
But I have no nearby neighbors or children to worry about. Since you have a bum shoulder I would take a serious look at the Marlin 1894 in .357 mag or if you can afford it possibly a AR type rifle. Recoil from both should be light enough so as not to bother your shoulder.If a BG gets into my house however they have to worry about my early detection system first then me
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sv51macross
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Zerodefect, heron, Broken11b, remember that only applied to low-grain .223, full mil-spec 5.56x45 will do exactly what JTX is pontificating about. Bartholomew Roberts posted (post #28) a link to Hornady 40grn .223, which does what you indicate.
oneounceload
member
Sound deals with pressure - 223 runs, what? 52000psi? 38 runs just a LITTLE less...please
As to the comment that a 357 will hurt your ears..ABSOLUTELY it will...why I suggested a lever rifle in 38/357 - using +P from that, recoil is minimal as is blast and flash
Z-Michigan
Member
Ignorant gunstore BS, unworthy of this forum or most others.
The false claim that .223 penetrates excessively has already been addressed, fortunately.
The pistol caliber carbines are either not very effective (9/40/45) or have substantial recoil (.44 mag and up). The .357 mag could be an OK compromise but is no cheaper than .223 and will have more recoil and more penetration of building materials.
Zerodefect
member
True the heavy 5.56 rounds are a bit excessive if overpen is a worry. There are plenty of light rounds to chose from. I use the heavy stuff (not worried about overpen), so I can't recommend any.
Still 00 Buck is a rough choice. And birdshot is flat out wrong. Every round needs to be lethal. You can go down to #4 buck if you want. But I don't go lower than that. I don't get the birdshot bit. You might only get one chance to score a vital hit.
But I can't think of a time a BG was shot and the round went clear through him and seriously hurt another person. That is extremly rare. Just hit your target. I can do that alot quicker and from more improvised positions with an Ar than a shotty.
Racking an Ar sounds scary to. You can use a Noveske Krink Flaming Pig to reduce muzzel blast/ noise. It'll still be loud, but it directs that noise down range. It's not too good of a flash suppressor though. (hence the name)
Still 00 Buck is a rough choice. And birdshot is flat out wrong. Every round needs to be lethal. You can go down to #4 buck if you want. But I don't go lower than that. I don't get the birdshot bit. You might only get one chance to score a vital hit.
But I can't think of a time a BG was shot and the round went clear through him and seriously hurt another person. That is extremly rare. Just hit your target. I can do that alot quicker and from more improvised positions with an Ar than a shotty.
Racking an Ar sounds scary to. You can use a Noveske Krink Flaming Pig to reduce muzzel blast/ noise. It'll still be loud, but it directs that noise down range. It's not too good of a flash suppressor though. (hence the name)
Green Dragoon
Member
I think it depends on whether you live in a house in the middle of nowhere or an apartment with neighbors less then a foot away through a wall. If you live in a house where your neighbor is a mile away and AR/AK/SKS will work, personally a nice AR or FS 2000. If you live in an apartment a shotgun will do the job ,but you have to pick your loads carefully. Personally I depend on a 1911 in 45 and a DD M-4 and sleep very well.
KodiakBeer
member
Federal makes a .223 Nosler ballistic tip that would pretty much make hamburger out of an intruder, and if it goes out the door it'll turn into shrapnel on even window glass.
rDigital
Member
I'm a big fan of the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm with +P Pow'rball hollow points (glock mags).
I've also got an old Colt 20" AR that'll do the job as well. I think they're both good for the job.
I've also got an old Colt 20" AR that'll do the job as well. I think they're both good for the job.
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