Blue state SHTF gun

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MiamiGrad

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So here’s the “hypothetical:” If one were a grad student in a gun unfriendly place like Chicago (or DC, etc.), was on a limited budget and wanted a SHTF personal defense handgun, which direction would you point this “hypothetical” person? Why so “hypothetical?” Because I wouldn’t want to ask any of you how best to break the law here banning handguns.

Say the person already has a Remington 870 under the bed to hold down the fort, but in putting together his grab-and-go emergency bag, he realizes it would be good to have something he could carry concealed on his person. He would have experience in doing this, having moved from Ohio, but left his good handgun (the first Ruger MkII with which he has a heartfelt sentimental attachment) with a trusted friend back there and loses his CCW as soon as he establishes a new residence in Illinois. He also, at one point, owned a Taurus PT92 and a Bersa Thunder (which he shot damn well and misses terribly, but traded straight-up for the 870 Wingmaster, which is legal here after registration).

It’s got to be a small pistol, because if the SHTF, Johnny Beatcop here isn’t going to look to kindly about the guy carrying an ALICE pack on his back and a 12-gauge pump in his hands. Since grad school is expensive, money is a concern. He doesn’t really have any money, but he’s thinking another $200-250 on the credit card is a tolerable amount to an already huge balance. Besides, if the SHTF and he’s (God forbid) forced to use it in self-defense, the firearm _will_ be confiscated. While he may prefer a 9mm or larger, the funds just aren’t there for what would be, essentially, an illegal firearm. Hi-Point is out. Blech.

So I think this person would best be served with either the Bersa Thunder .380 or a small .22lr autoloader. Because it’s more likely than not to be cold in a town like Chicago, the .380 would have more penetration of things like coats, but he’s proficient enough to get multiple rounds of .22 on a small target quickly, and it’s much cheaper to stockpile a couple hundred rounds of .22. He’s equally comfortable (and, frankly, quite good at) shooting both. Realistically, it would be stashed away with the emergency cache of water, food and emergency supplies with the hopes of using it very rarely.

Oh, and he’s going back to Ohio in a couple weeks for a wedding, where he could purchase said handgun without raising the suspicions of the Illinois State Police. Once he gets his Illinois driver’s license (in order to get his Firearm Owner’s ID, required to purchase ammo and firearms here), he’d be forced to purchase a handgun in-state, and the police would know he did so. He doesn’t want the police knocking with a search warrant.

So, is he missing anything? What would you tell this “hypothetical” person to do?

Thanks so much for helping out a long-time lurker who’s finding the big city a lot different from Southern Ohio.
 
Move to the FREE WORLD!!!!!!!!


If I were stockpiling .22 for SHTF it would be closer to 2,000 rds!! .22 is relatively quiet, a big plus when you don't want to draw attention. At 'gunfighting range', you can probably made head shots consistently.
 
Something tells me that this thread's life is going to be very, very short. We all feel for you living behind the iron curtain, but you won't find many willing to help break the laws, no matter how stupid the law :banghead:

My suggestion is to move to a free state, get somewhere where you wouldn't feel the need to bug-out if TSHTF.

Really, everyone is going to try to bug-out, and thats goint to clog the roads, and most people who are already "bugged out" aren't going to take to kindly to the massive unprepared hordes wanting to share land and supplies. :rolleyes:

I.G.B.
 
Uh yeah....find a grad school somewhere inside the United States to attend instead.

hillbilly
 
Let us assume for the sake of argument that such a person does exist. That such a person lived in Daley's Duchy and was legally barred from possessing certain types of firearms. If said person was concerned about SHTF...I would first ask:

What exactly is your SHTF scenario? Are we talking about a break in and assault, are we talking LA Riots, are we talking Bulls championship riots, or are we talking Mad Max/Dawn of the Dead societal collapse?

Here is why I ask...you can't CCL in Illinois unless you are a member of the aristocracy...so...by carrying (or even owning) a handgun in Cook, you put your lawful right to own a firearm at risk should you be caught. That being said, your best LEGAL defense is to not carry...and BE SMART about your decisions. Meaning, don't travel in dodgy neighborhoods, stay alert and stay aware...and avoid trouble. The best way to win a fight is to not be there. :neener: Long story short...I would say don't carry in Cook county.

If you are worried about a break in...your 870 will make a fine house gun. Keep it loaded with double ought and keep it where you can get at it.

If you are talking about carrying equipment in the event of a total societal breakdown your 12 guage should do just fine. Here's why: You are going to be in a mess of humanity roughly 3.2 million strong...Chicago has about 18,000 cops...and they will be busy protecting their own...or attempting to manage chaos. If that happens....I say grab a few bandoleers and get outta dodge! :D
 
Believe it or not, this really is a hypothetical situation. Breakins I feel I have covered — the 870 is really a last, LAST line of defense behind three doors (two solid), all with substantial locks. There is no easy way into my apartment, and if somebody was working on getting in while I was there, I'd certainly hear it early enough to fall back to the 870.

With bomb threats shutting down the El twice in the last two months, I'd be more concerned about a terrorist attack, but like others pointed out, getting out of town is going to be impossible when everybody has the same idea. My worst case scenario would be hunkering down at home and running out of our emergency supplies (food, water, etc.). Daily carry is by _far_ out of the question.

As for moving, that's going to take some time. The school is exactly what I was looking for, and my girlfriend moved to be with me last time; it was my turn. I like to think I was helpful in getting the Ohio CCW law readily accepted — I was a newspaper reporter (gasp!) for the last couple years and covered the local side of the struggle to pass the law — and if everybody like us leaves Illinois, Springfield will never see progress.

Ultimately, it isn't worth me losing my ability to get a CCW — my Ohio license expires as soon as I get an Illinois driver's license, but the paperwork is on the way for the non-resident Florida permit, which works in my home state. I really was just curious how some of you with more firearms experience would react to the notion. Thanks.
 
If this person had to have a handgun, then this person might as well get the most affordable, effective available, since ALL handguns are Verboten. On a 200-300 dollar budget, I'd look for a used S&W K-frame revolver in .38 or .357. Doubt that $300 would buy it, but IMHO, the 3" barrel M65 is the pick of the litter for SD.
 
All hypothetical stuff aside the question actually boils down to "whats a good CCW weapon in the 200-300 dollar range?"

My first thought was a makarov also since they are reliable as gravity, cheap, and have a reasonable punch. A used snubby revolver is also a good idea. Third choice might be something in .380 like a bursa.

If you want to go REAL deep cover you could get a kel-tec in .380 or even .32. Doesn't get much smaller or lighter.
 
My suggestion would be (my gosh, am I actually going to say this) move.

I understand picking the best grad school for what you need academically. However, just because school is in Chicago does that really mean you have to live in Chicago? I'm sure some of the close in Chicago 'burbs have better gun laws. If not, why not take a 20min, 30min, 60min commute (whatever is needed, within reason)? Outside the city limits rents will probably be cheaper anyway which should help the budget.

Actually, answering the question about the close in Chicago 'burbs might be helpful for me because there is a slim chance I may be going to grad school in the Chicago area myself.

As for the handgun, I agree with the others that you shouldn't own one in Chicago. You can't carry there anyway. The laws if caught with a handgun in the city, or worse, carrying, are pretty terrible up there (isn't it a felony). You already have a good home defense weapon in the shotgun. Actually, the handgun bans in DC and Chicago are why I may live in the 'burbs there (I pretty much do for DC, where I live is a suburb of both Baltimore and DC) but I'll never live in those cities, and the near ban on handguns in NYC is why I feel the same about there (and NYC would be great for me for so many other reasons- tons of kosher eating establishments, great resources for my religion, great schools for grad school, and I just love big cities).

Now, as for my pick for a good choice for a concealable handgun on a strict $200-250 budget, I have a couple choices. A Bersa Thunder is a great deal- accurate, reliable and inexpensive (you just need to be OK with .380 and with a slide mounted decocker). However, my first choices would be revolvers. A used steel framed Taurus 85 can easily be had for around $200 on the auction sites (that is what I did for my Taurus 85CH- Gunbroker for around $200). A new Rossi won't be too much more than your $250 top limit. A new steel framed Taurus will only be 10-20% more (in some locales it will be at your limit, in some it will be closer to $300). A used K-framed sized Taurus .357mag can be had in the $250-300 range generally today, sometimes you can find one for less. A used K-frame S&W .357 will usually be over $300 these days, but you may get lucky if you are on the lookout and find one for $250. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding a decent .38spl S&W K-frame in the $200-250 range. If you look hard you also might find a used S&W J-frame in that range. You shouldn't have too much trouble concealing a 2-4" K-frame, and a 2" J-frame can fit in most pockets.
 
I would have to hypothetically suggest a S&W K/L frame in .357. Should fit in the budget and has plenty of stopping power and requires little maintenance. I'd look for a 65 with a 3" barrel.

Greg
 
shyt hits the fan and you won't need to worry about a beat cop harrassing you about a mouse gun.
 
I agree,

First do you have to change your license? it used to be that illinois did not require students living in the state to change their licenses, If you had a permanent address at home. IE your parents house. That allows you a little wiggle room should you get into a place where you use the gun, (gee officer it was legal at home and I am just visiting) What is the penalty in Ill. for unregistered hand gun (not CCW) but simple possession?

I would research the depth of these questions, because if it is a gross misdemeanor or a felony, having it could simple erase your need for grad school. Very few corporations are going to hire a ex felon someone with a reportable offense in some states. Now if you answer all these and decide you still need the weapon. I would look for a police trade back. used berettas run 275 to 325 here. used smiths 59xx's and 69xx's in the 250 range. CDNN often has model 10's or similar for under two hundred. Usually well taken care of and pretty decent shape. Although I would but the cheapest that I could if being used in a confiscate state.

Now realistic examination of the SHTF scenario means looking at what you can do to survive not bug out. If we get to a spot where two weeks of food and water are not enough ( you do at least have that much stored right ? and you have either no-cook food or a means to cook with no power.) then the possession of a gun is not even going to blip the police radar.

You are going to grad school so it would seem likely that you are reasonably intelligent. If so, then sit down and right out what you feel are threats. rate them as to realitiy and probabilty, and then plan to meet those risks. Two weeks of back up food can be a couple cases of soup, a bag of rice, a bag or big box of oatmeal, and a coupld of canned hams. survival food does not have to be fancy but just to get you through. Water can be nothing more than ten plastic milk jugs, rinsed and filled with a couple of drops of iodine or bleach in each jug. Just buy milk in plastic jugs for the next couple of weeks and save the jugs. 2 liter pop bottles work too.
 
I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what the question is driving at.

If your friend wants to legally own a handgun and go to school in Chicago, he has a couple of options. First, he could commute, as has been suggested. Many communities near the city allow possession of handguns, and the commuter rail system is excellent.

Another option would be to store the handgun offsite. Gunworld is a quick jaunt up I90 from the Loop and they will rent him a space in the vault a yearly basis.

If you are looking for advice on what your friend should carry during a mass exodus from the city in the event of some catastrophe - I'd recommend he tuck his 870 into a discrete shoulder bag or under a blanket in his car. Frankly, however, I think your friend ought to be more concerned about figuring out where exactly he is going to go, rather than what he'll be carrying on his way there.

Incidentally, did you friend have any issue obtaining a City of Chicago permit for his 870? It took me six months and several hearings to obtain mine.
 
Incidentally, did you friend have any issue obtaining a City of Chicago permit for his 870? It took me six months and several hearings to obtain mine.
A permit and hearings for a SHOTGUN??? Has Daleyville on the Lake gotten THIS bad? When I lived there, they'd stopped registering handguns, but registering a long gun was just a matter of sending in the form and the money.

If things are that bad . . . :barf:
 
Illinois State Police Firearms Website

Includes the various municpal codes and how to get a FOID card.

P.S. Possession of a firearm w/o a FOID gets you a year in jail. However if you are an out-of-state resident (i.e. student with a permanent home address out-of-state, like your parents house) YOU ARE EXEMPT, DO NOT GET AN ILLINOIS LICENCE. Emporer Richie II has what's known as the CAGE unit. They like to "check" Cook County FFL's and find out who's been buying what and then pay that person a visit.
 
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Hank -

It was pretty obnoxious. I think "registration" and "permit" are interchangable, since they issue you a permit (which includes a passport photo) upon successful registration.

They initially denied my registration application, claiming the 870 was an "assault weapon" under the city code. [My first post here at THR was seeking advice on how to deal with this denial].

The ordinance provides for an appeal process, which I initiated -- hence the hearings. I eventually won, but it took half a year, a lot of time off work, and no small amount of frustration.
 
Possession of a firearm w/o a FOID gets you a year in jail. However if you are an out-of-state resident (i.e. student with a permanent home address out-of-state, like your parents house) YOU ARE EXEMPT, DO NOT GET AN ILLINOIS LICENCE

Agreed, do not get an Illinois licence, keep the Ohio one. You can even buy ammo with it "if " the clerk knows the laws. (which means do NOT go to wal-mart.)
 
I really was just curious how some of you with more firearms experience would react to the notion. Thanks.
Not knowing your level of firearms experience, I cannot claim to have more than you, nor would I admit to having less.

What I would do in your hypothetical situation is live according to the law, and vote with my feet at the very first opportunity. In general, bag guys look for easy targets. If you make your apartment less than easy, and do nothing to attract a BG's attention, you should not have to worry about a break-in.

So what we're left with is a true SHTF situation -- massive unrest and/or riots for whatever reason, and the entire populace is going nuts. Stay hunkered down and don't attract attention.

The potential consequences of violating the law are serious enough that I, personally, would not risk it. The hypothetical mileage of the hypothetical protagonist in this story may vary.
 
Once you've moved to a non-pink state, pick up a Kel-Tec. A lightly used P11 should fit in that $200-250 window, which is about what the local shop wanted for their used ones. (I still think that $250 is too much for a Kel-Tec P11, but I think it's the garage saler in me.)

A CZ-52 is in the double digit range, defeats body armor up to level 3a (3b, IIRC, was specifically designed to defeat .30 Tokarev without the bulk and weight of a rifle vest) and can fire 9mm parabellum with a barrel swap. It's big, heavy, and has an oversized grip by modern standards, but it'll perform.

Hm. Or, keep the out-of-state residence and skip moving. Then get another job with a local paper and get with the memetic engineering
 
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