Breaking: Omaha, NE mall shooting

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by mekender: a while back, israel in response to school shootings started letting the older students and the faculty carry guns on campus... suprise, the shootings stopped...

Got any sources for this. As I have read repeatedly by Israelis gun control is very strict in their country. It is not very easy for people outside the settlemtnts to be able to carry a firearm. I believe you have to be ex-military and of a certain paygrade.

 

[sacp81170a]

I'm listening to the first hour repeat of Coast to Coast AM with George Noory. They're interviewing a number of terrorism experts and LEO's. They are very adamant about the fact they have shall issue CCW in Nebraska and the mall is posted as a gun free zone. Noory is very pro 2A. Hmm, even the UFO and Big Foot hunters realize it's dumb to disarm law abiding citizens. Makes you realize how far out in left field the gun banners really are...

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by mekender: go troll somewhere else moron

That is not taking the high road at all. It does not behoove you to call names. For your information there are many Christian terrorists operating all over the world. Christian Identity is but one example. And my thoughts on this do have a precedent.

Many Christian terrorist attacks in the USA have been shootings. Not always mass shootings but shootings. reverend Michael Bray, The Order, Buford O. Furrow, Chevie Kehoe, and Benjamin Nathaniel Smith are but examples of Christian terrorists using firearms to commit acts of terrorism.

mekender: I have to ask why you are upset when I assumed it might be an act of religious terrorism by a Christian, yet you were not angry when someone else assumed it might be an Islamic terrorist. Is there a reason for that?

 

[sacp81170a]

Just saw Joe Coffey, a former NYPD detective on Fox and Friends this morning. I was thinking, "Oh no, here we go again, a New York police officer." I was pleasantly surprised to hear the gist of his statements:

1. This was not a gun control problem, it was a mental health problem.
2. If there had been a CCW permit holder with a gun around, this may have ended differently.
3. In states where there is a history of CCW, the BG's must have second thoughts about these kinds of acts because they never know who might be carrying a gun to stop them.

Looks like our viewpoint is being heard in a lot of places that it wasn't being heard before.

 

[Owens]

I am wondering how the shooter managed to get that far carrying a rifle. From what I've read in the previous posts, he just carried it in, got on the elevator, went to the 3rd floor, stepped off and started shooting??? There are a lot of un-answered questions, and we won't get them off of the MSM.

Thoughts and prayers to the survivors and families of victims.

 

[Roswell 1847]

Benjamin Nathaniel Smith are but examples of Christian terrorists

Smiths supposed Church

The Creativity Movement, formerly called Church of the Creator, is an United States-based racialist White-supremacist organization that advocates a whites-only religion called Creativity. The group denies the Holocaust and embraces racial eugenics. Religious scholar J. Gordon Melton has been quoted as describing the movement as a church, although they are known to describe themselves as atheists[1]. The movements use of the term "creator" is not regarded as a reference to a deity, but rather to themselves. [2] (i.e. White people or Europeans.)

The "Christian Terrorist " label again.

Not every white guy is a Christian. The term "Church" is used as a subtrefuge by many non believers.

 

[rocinante]

A correction to someone who mentioned the incident where a shooter killed five hunters. He used a saiga 7.62 x 39 not an SKS. The saiga was totally unconverted too.

I have a yugo SKS and while it is possible to convert it to use AK magazines it is not EASY nor CHEAP. It requires some fairly extensive and precise machining. Not worth the effort money wise. The Yugo was my first rifle and I went whole hog with a tapco synthetic stock and multiple tapco 20 round duckbill magazines, scout mount and a cheap red dot. It would of been less expensive to just get an AK which I did by buying a saiga for 250 and doing the pistol grip and magazine conversion.

I do not have a CCW but I will. I do have a pistol in my glove box.There have been several of these shootings where a citizen stopped the carnage by confronting the shooter with a gun. IIRC the shooter in Pearl Miss and another at some junior college. In each of these cases the citizens had guns in their cars AND the shooter stopped when confronted. Still I am along with several other posters wondering if I would confront the shooter much less kill him unless he was directly threatening me or someone under my care. Part of my hesitancy is fear of my safety which I guess is an admission of cowardicy. I admire heroes but am not sure what circumstances would make me join their ranks. The other is our TOTALLY screwed up legal systems that could conceivably put me in jail or face massive civil law problems for protecting my fellow innocents. WHACKED!!

We are in the wild west.

 

[Nimble1]

Fox & Friends

I watch F&F most every morning and like sacp81170a , I expected the NYC Detective to be very anti-gun. Boy was I surprised!! But I don't think I was as surprised as the Fox commentators..they quickly thanked him and went on to another segment without any comment at all!! I don't think that he expressed the view that they expected.

 

[Roswell 1847]

PS
"reverend Michael Bray", That would be the "Army of God" Erich Rudolph's old outfit, Eric Rudolph refused to accept a Bible his mother sent to him in prison saying he prefered Nietzche.

Continuing to play into the subtrefuge that these atheist and prot deist wackos are somehow Christian even when they don't even claim to be does nothing to get Islamic Terrorists off the hook.
"By their fruits ye shall know them".
A number of supposedly "Christian Terrorists" and their phony churches have openly offered their support for Islamic Terrorist Organizations.

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by Roswell 1847: The "Christian Terrorist " label again.

Not every white guy is a Christian. The term "Church" is used as a subtrefuge by many non believers.

His church is based on Christian mythology and theology. He is a Christian, so the label "Christian Terrorist" fits. I dont understand what the big deal is with the label. I suspected the man might be a Christian terrorist and everyone comes out of the woodwork to complain. Nobody complained when someone else suspected Islamic Terrorists. What is the big deal?

 

[BryanP]

I suspected the man might be a Christian terrorist and everyone comes out of the woodwork to complain. Nobody complained when someone else suspected Islamic Terrorists. What is the big deal?

Some people get really touchy about which mythology you praise and which you villify.

Me, I'm on the lookout for Viking and Aztec terrorists.

 

[El Tejon]

Another young mad dog who thought he was losing at life (he was only 20--you're suppossed to lose at life at 20) wanted to be famous even if it meant infamy. The media is gladly giving him his fame and setting the rest of us up for the copycats.

 

[Roswell 1847]

Me, I'm on the lookout for Viking and Aztec terrorists.

The Asatru (Norse)Pagans have a lot more influence on the mis named Christian Identity movement that any Christian theology.
Mayan and Aztec revolutionaries in Mexico took over a couple of cities for awhile.

His church is based on Christian mythology and theology. He is a Christian

In response to this

Religious scholar J. Gordon Melton has been quoted as describing the movement as a church, although they are known to describe themselves as atheists[1].

Geez Tecumseh, where do you get Atheism as Christian Theology and Mythology.
and

The movements use of the term "creator" is not regarded as a reference to a deity, but rather to themselves. [2] (i.e. White people or Europeans.)

Last I heard Christians didn't believe in themselves as their own Creator.

I don't know if you've bought into their blarney or just haven't ever read up on them.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

He stole the SKS from his step-father---and had a felony drug conviction 2 years ago---so was not legal to even own the gun.

What's really scary is the comments from his friends---seemingly no big deal and that's what you do----hopefully LE will pay close attention to this whole group for the next few years till they get established and have kids of their own.

 

[El Tejon]

He was a convicted felon? Man, at 20, but I know it's not uncommon.

NPR reported that he had several pending alcohol-related misdemeanors.

 

[ptmmatssc]

yeah, those damn christian terrorists... what their super dangerous bibles in the nightstands at hotel rooms campaign? or the evil tree of violent warship?

go troll somewhere else moron

Not very high road .

That being said , just like any other religion , there are the sects/groups that perpetuate acts of evil against others in the name of their"god" . Just like Eric Rudolph .

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Now as far as this current event goes . Even if people could carry there , it does not exactly mean that there would have been any less carnage . It just means there would have been a chance to slow it down or stop it , which apparently , because of the no guns status , there wasn't .

There's going to be a lot of speculation and analysis as to why this kid did this . We'll hear parenting, video games , drugs, etc etc , as the cause .But truthfully , it comes down to the individual . If those were truly the causes , then we would have mass shootings on a daily basis .

There IS a difference today compared to the days when guys like Charles Whitman executed his attack . I'll let the following explain .

"That seems to be the model: become the Heisman Trophy winner of serial murder; try to become the heavyweight champion by exacting the largest body count in history," Northeastern University professor Jack Levin, who has been studying mass murder for more than 20 years, told Sunday Morning correspondent Martha Teichner.

"We set a standard for would-be killers when we talk about 'the worst — the largest in American history — around the country.' It's a game of one-upsmanship."

Except for the location and the body count, the script is the same, every time, as if the killers and the commentators both have copies. Virginia Tech might as well have been Columbine in 1999: Same month, same week. Cho considered Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold his heroes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/sunday/main2708452.shtml

The common denominator seems to be "outdoing" those that came before them , to get their 15 minutes .

 

[SWMAN]

Now I suppose they'll be a call to ban all semiautos and increase the gun free zones!

 

[Roswell 1847]

there are the sects/groups that perpetuate acts of evil against others in the name of their"god" . Just like Eric Rudolph .

I guess some folks just don't read the information posted or choose to ignore it because it doesn't match their pre conceived notion.
Sort of like Atheists who continue to claim that Hitler was a Christian then post NAZI propaganda to bolster their case.
Even when people like Rudolph and McVeigh admit there was no religious motivation for their actions and that they personally had no belief in God or Christ no one wants to hear it.

 

[feedthehogs]

We are in the wild west

That kind of expression only serves to fuel the fire of anti-gun retoric and if it had any validity, everyone in Kennesaw Ga. would be dead or wounded.

By all the reports up till now, this seems to be another case of a kid feeling abandoned and alone and given the media's blood thirst for any shooting event and its portrayal on tv, gave this kid a way to feel that he would be somebody in death.

Society has a serious problem and it has nothing to do with guns.

To keep this thread with some sense of intelligence, let the religon argument go.

 

[JWarren]

It is often a preconceived notion to some that if you are white, you are Christian.

-- John

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by Roswell 1847: Me, I'm on the lookout for Viking and Aztec terrorists.

The Asatru (Norse)Pagans have a lot more influence on the mis named Christian Identity movement that any Christian theology.
Mayan and Aztec revolutionaries in Mexico took over a couple of cities for awhile.


Quote:
His church is based on Christian mythology and theology. He is a Christian

In response to this

Quote:
Religious scholar J. Gordon Melton has been quoted as describing the movement as a church, although they are known to describe themselves as atheists[1].

Geez Tecumseh, where do you get Atheism as Christian Theology and Mythology.
and

Quote:
The movements use of the term "creator" is not regarded as a reference to a deity, but rather to themselves. [2] (i.e. White people or Europeans.)

Last I heard Christians didn't believe in themselves as their own Creator.

I don't know if you've bought into their blarney or just haven't ever read up on them.

Not all of the Christian Identity movement is based in Christianity. But the majority is.

Can you post a link to where you are pulling this information?

 

[Autolycus]

McVeigh was a Christian Identity movement Christian.

 

[Igloodude]

The first police arrived six minutes after the first 911 call was made, and now local law enforcement is "doing a tremendous job in getting on top of this and doing what they need to do to investigate it." Fortunately for everyone police response to the tragedy was "quicker and more organized" due to Bush's [recent] visit.

Can anyone point to a source saying that he stole his father-in-law's SKS?

 

[Roswell 1847]

Timothy McVeigh was an Avowed Agnostic, and "Christian Identity" has nothing to do with the Christian Religion beyond hijacking the title, you can't copyright the word Christian.

Eric Rudolph

Rudolph himself has written "Many good people continue to send me money and books. Most of them have, of course, an agenda; mostly born-again Christians looking to save my soul. I suppose the assumption is made that because I'm in here I must be a 'sinner' in need of salvation, and they would be glad to sell me a ticket to heaven, hawking this salvation like peanuts at a ballgame. I do appreciate their charity, but I could really do without the condescension. They have been so nice I would hate to break it to them that I really prefer Nietzsche to the Bible

 

[ptmmatssc]

So "army of god " is athiest to ? Like Paul Hill ? Clayton Wagner? Rev. Michael Bray ?

Btw , the previous posts concerning Rudolph were posted as I was typing , so no , I did not read them until AFTER I had posted .

Anyways , this is OT so that's all Ill say .

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Just saw a list of this guys offenses and history and it seems he was just a loser taking out his own self inflicted problems on the world with an intent on becoming famous .