Carrying a 1911 cocked and NOT locked?

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I love my 1911. I love my Blackhawk. But I prefer that a SD gun I carry on my person is double action.

The world's military and police forces seem to agree with me on DA vs. SA. (Meaning that single-action handguns such as the Colt SA and 1911 don't seem to be prevalent with security forces these days.)

Please forgive me for straying off topic. My 1911 has a very light trigger, so I would be nervous about carrying it "cocked and not locked". It has a grip safety, but in an emergency situation I might be clumsy enough to discharge it before I intended to.
 
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The world's military and police forces seem to agree with me on DA vs. SA.
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The Beretta 92 has a manual safety, so does the High Power. Plus every rifle and shotgun issued is SA only with a manual safety.
 
The world's military and police forces seem to agree with me on DA vs. SA.
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If you had said had said that they agree with you on da/sa handguns vs. sa handguns I would have agreed. But alas...

In addition to the 92 Sigs 226, 220, 228, etc. are da/sa pistols with decockers.

tipoc
 
What about non-1911's with frame mounted, down-to-fire safeties like Browning Hi-Powers, CZ's, Tanfoglios, safety-equipped M&P's, some H&K's, etc.? As long as you ride the safety with the thumb, the "muscle memory" is the same.
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I'll go with that, frame mounted, down to fire safeties.
 
Carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked is just too risky in my opinion. Maybe if you are walking through a bad neighborhood and are feeling very unsafe you might temporarily want to go to condition 0 and keep your hand on the weapon, but otherwise keep the safety on.
 
You're right that once it's in the holster it is pretty safe. It is when the gun is gripped is when it's too easy to tap the trigger. A handgun is ergonomically designed so that your trigger finger naturally rests on the trigger.
 
With some of the above logic it would be perfectly fine to carry a pistol with a 12 oz trigger and no safety.

I suppose it would be in a perfect world. But it isn't one and you won't find me with a 1911 and no safety on stuck in my belt.

Isn't concealed carry all about not getting shot? Wouldn't it be wiser to carry a gun that you won't shoot yourself with because it offers no real disadvantage in the inordinately small chance you need to pull it in self defense?

Sure it's a training issue. But I'd wage a lapse in your "training" is much more likely than the need to pull your weapon. Risk management should be the focus.


HB
 
My comment was directed toward the notion that the pistol is somehow to blame for fingers on triggers by nature of ergonomics. Personally, I figure if the firearm is equipped with a safety, use it. However, that does not take the place of safe handling.
 
A safety on any handgun is there to prevent accidental discharge if the firearm is dropped.

The grip safety only prevents the trigger from being pulled unless it is depressed by the palm of the shooters hand and does nothing to prevent the hammer from bouncing off the sear from a hard blow when dropped and discharging the gun if its a pre 80's model without firing pin block. The thumb safety locks the sear in place though it possible to break the sear tip if the hammer takes a heavy enough blow to the back of the hammer.

Without using the thumb safety when carrying there is a good chance you will get an AD if 1911 without firing pin block falls from your holster. An AD when drawing or holstering is much more likely due to the light SA trigger pull.

Glocks and other semi auto's that are DA or DAish all have passive safeties that prevent discharge with a drop and the heavier trigger pull helps prevent AD's though good safety habits need to be used at all times. There is a reason that for over a century 1911 users have recommended cocked and locked for defense carry.
 
Even if I carried it unlocked...every time I drew, my thumb would probably go for the safety anyways.
Its the easiest thing to make a habit of. You always keep it locked, and then thats one less thing that will have to cross your mind...if push ever comes to shove.
 
I don't think of the grip safety as a safety, but as a fail-safe. I don't have to do anything but let go of the pistol for it to activate it. But it is unactivated when the gun is properly gripped. That begins when I first grip the pistol at the beginning of the draw, and continues until I re-holster it or let go of it. For 99.99% of the time, that doesn't pose a significant risk.

But I would fear for that one instance, when I am under severe pressure, acting will all haste, perhaps off balance, or my attention is focused on a real threat. I draw with my trigger finger position so that it comes to rest on the side, above the trigger. Or does it? What if my finger is right on the edge, ready to slip down onto the trigger. I'm sure as heck going to be gripping the gun hard, if for no other reason than I've got adrenaline dumping into my system.

I train to sweep the thumb safety AFTER I've clear my person.

Cocked and Unlock means I'm ready to shoot. End of story.
 
I am just wondering what your opinions are about this. For those who are against even carrying "cocked and locked," you need not reply.

Isnt an "unlocked" 1911 not as safe (or safer) than glock or m&p? With those if (you are stupid) and hook something on the trigger it will shoot. With a 1911, you have to push and pull in an opposite direction to shoot it (grip safety).

So lets "assume" you are responsible when handling, am I correct with my thinking?

The "why" is for 1 less step to go wrong if drawing and engaging is necessary. I also understand train,train,train but I have seen on more than one occasion an experienced IDPA shooter "forget" the thumb safety on the first shot.



Its is a pretty stupid idea.If you have to ask why you don't need to carry a 1911.
 
Another consideration is whether anyone would be comfortable leaving a revolver in the cocked position. I don't know anyone who would advocate doing that.
 
Another consideration is whether anyone would be comfortable leaving a revolver in the cocked position. I don't know anyone who would advocate doing that.
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Pretty much one of those Apples/Oranges comparisons...but even a cocked double action revolver needs to have the trigger pulled in order to fire.

In order for a holstered 1911 to discharge, the sear would have to instantaneously turn to dust.

Both hammer hooks could shear off at the same instant, and the half cock notch...or quarter cock shelf...would grab the sear and stop the hammer short.

And even in the event that the sear turns to dust...the engaged thumb safety won't do a thing to help. The hammer would wipe the safety off faster than you can do it with your thumb.

Because the thumb safety blocks the sear...not the hammer.

Even if the sear crown fractured completely and fell off...the original half cock would still stop the hammer short of hitting the firing pin.

For the record, I'm not advocating Condition Zero carry, and I don't recommend it to anyone...not because the holstered gun will discharge all by itself...but because of the human error involved.
 
It still amazes me that after over 100 years that there are those who do not understand the workings of the 1911 platform. It was the first pistol I was ever responsible for, thanks to Uncle Sugar, and has been my daily carry since then.

It is simple, robust, and quite capable of doing its intended job. The only problem I have ever seen with it are those who tried to cheapen it by making inferior parts or not paying attention to where everything is supposed to go, such as spacing of the pins, dimensions and clearances.

I am thinking there are more ND's caused by people who want to change things without knowing what they are doing than anything else.
 
ND's are caused by undisciplined untrained people who just don't "get it".
 
There's another member on this forum who said he has been carrying his 1911 unlocked and cocked for decades and never once had a problem with it. The thumb safety is redundant unless you have a "hair trigger" in my opinion.
 
IMO: only a fool would carry a cocked 1911 with the safety off.

And to those who say they might 'forget' to take the safety off under stress?

Nonsense!

The safety is laying right under your thumb when you grasp the gun.

Forgetting the safety would by as unnatural as forgetting to put your finger in the trigger guard when you pulled it out of the holster intending to shoot it.

It comes as natural to me at least as breathing.

Rc
 
I think the OP is suffering from a bunch of replies from 1911 owners who haven't handled glocks.

I have owned both, and now own neither (Springfield GI 1911, and Glock 17, both perfect examples of their respective archetypes). A glock has no safety, and if you are holstering and a hoodie drawstring sneaks in it'll pull the trigger and give you an ND. A cocked and unlocked 1911 will give you the same ND as you're hand will be on the gun likely engaging the grip safety as you holster.

So, a cocked and unlocked 1911 is just as safe or unsafe as a glock 17 all the time. Both triggers come from the factory dangerously short. I do not like either.

Forgetting a safety in a panic is a real concern so I'd rather a glock to a 1911. Equal safety with less risk of a training failure in a 1911. Anyone can train on anything and make it work, but that doesn't mean anything. More training or better equipment can achieve the same result, and better equipment is much easier to get.

1911s IMO are good but outdated and are not superior to anything in my opinion. If you like them that's great, and something you like beats something you don't, but a 45acp glock is in all ways superior imo. I'd choose neither as neither feel safe to me, though.
 
HB said:
With some of the above logic it would be perfectly fine to carry a pistol with a 12 oz trigger and no safety.

I suppose it would be in a perfect world. But it isn't one and you won't find me with a 1911 and no safety on stuck in my belt.

Isn't concealed carry all about not getting shot? Wouldn't it be wiser to carry a gun that you won't shoot yourself with because it offers no real disadvantage in the inordinately small chance you need to pull it in self defense?

Sure it's a training issue. But I'd wage a lapse in your "training" is much more likely than the need to pull your weapon. Risk management should be the focus.


HB
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Well said, I agree completely.
 
If someone has a thought stuck in their head "any thought" the worrying associated with it makes it relevant, not the actual event. That is a good reason to choose another firearm type, something that puts your mind at ease, because the last thing you need under pressure of that magnitude, is doubt, or fear that you will have a malfunction with your equipment.
 
I am 1000% with Tuner - is gun. Gun not safe. Must keep brain fully engaged at all times. Whoever dreamed up "multitasking" never handled guns or power tools..
 
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