Ceteris Paribus: Home defense AR- 5.56 or x39?

[Phaedrus/69]

I apologize ahead of time if this one is asking for trouble! But if you had access two otherwise-identical AR/AR-adjacent carbines, one in 5.56 NATO and the other in 7.62x39 which would you prefer to rely on for home defense? And why?

After ages on a waiting list I've finally secured a spot in the queue for a PWS Mk116 Mod 1 upper in x39! My deposit is paid and the uppers should ship in Nov/Dec. In preparation I've already picked up 7 x 28 round C-Products Duramags and a little ammo (waiting to get a pile of ammo til I see what the carbine likes). I'm an unabashed PWS fanboy so this will be a nice complement to my Mk114 Composite gun.

Nowadays x39 ammo isn't as dirt cheap as it once was but it's still pretty reasonable, and generally ubiquitous. It's a bit more powerful than 5.56 and right now I don't have any .30 cal rifles at all!

So, the $64k question I put to the people of THR is provided they were equally reliable, which caliber would you pick for a defensive carbine if you could only choose one? For the sake of argument this carbine/rifle only has to serve as a defensive weapon, it's assumed to have other rifles to hunt and shoot targets with.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

5.56 due to reliable and accessible ammo.

Plus, I'm starting to like speed over weight as far as ballistics against thin-skinned "game". I don't think the 7.62x39 is much more powerful than the 5.56, in regards to energy. The 5.56 has speed, the x39 has weight/diameter.

Plus there aren't as many premium options for x39.

I love both, but I'd pick 5.56

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Yeah, having a nominal diameter of .311 does kind of limit things in the USA at least. There are a few "premium" options that exist but with spotty availability lately.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

5.56, because it simply works, super easy to use, easier to find accessories and ammunition for, and it's not broken.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

5.56 due to reliable and accessible ammo.

Plus, I'm starting to like speed over weight as far as ballistics against thin-skinned "game". I don't think the 7.62x39 is much more powerful than the 5.56, in regards to energy. The 5.56 has speed, the x39 has weight/diameter.

FWIW, I go heavy-for-caliber in virtually as cases. I use 147gr for my CCW ammo for 9mm, 180gr for .40 cal, 70gr-77gr for 5.56 for HD and 158gr for the little bit of .38 Special I use (mostly for my LCRx worn when running to the store). I even gravitate towards the heaviest slugs for my 1301. Of course here I'm about as worried about bears as I am people.

 

[Beck]

You really can't go wrong with either, but looks like you're well on your way to 7.62x39 regardless. Anyone who knows me even just a little knows I'm a 7.62x39 fan. Been one for the better part of 35 years.

It's a close to medium range cartridge well sited for home defense. The vast majority of comments concerning 7.62x39 on this forum or any other are woefully lacking. The people making the mistaken assertions aren't bad people. In most cases they honestly don't know any better. As you stated, you're talking about home defense here, so that's what I'm talking about.

For max effective hunting range it's mostly a handloaders cartridge. For home defense your ammo and accessory options are virtually endless. Yes, at the moment ammo prices are through the roof, but they will come down eventually as they always have after a crisis. I've been through these ammo shortages and sky high prices more times than I like to admit, but they always resolve themselves.

Armies of the world have been happily killing each other with 7.62x39 for many decades now. I'm sure you'll do just fine in any HD situation.

US made AR 7.62x39 barrels vary greatly. Some have .308 grooves. Others are .310 or .311. I'm pretty sure PWS is .311, but I'm not 100% sure. The good news is it doesn't matter, especially at close quarters home defense distances. Experiment and find the best performing rounds for your build. Many are surprised to find .308 projectiles perform best in their .310 and .311 barrels. If you handload keep that in mind.

Some of the best performing x39 factory rounds for me are steel case 124gr hollow point boat-tail from the Vympel factory in Russia. Once Putin is shot in the head, as he should be, Russia and the rest of the civilized world can play nice again and prices will come down... availability will get back to pre-pandemic levels.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I'm on my way to x39 but I'm not getting rid of my other PWS or the Bren. I picked up 120 round of TulAmmo 122gr HP as a starter. From what I can find it sounds like the PWS x39 guns tend to run everything but I'll try a few before I stock up. Maybe I'll get a half case of Norma or Belom brass stuff as that should work with anything. Certainly I'll get a bit of premium ammo down the road. But while I do believe in using the best ammo possible to give yourself the best odds, I think most any military loading will be sufficient to the task.

 

[Demi-human]

I’ll take the American cartridge.
Oh. Well, I mean the smaller American cartridge then.
My well built, yet sprawling, house would rather take the more frangible bullet. Our bedrooms are at all corners and the shooting lanes invariably have a bedroom behind or to the side of them.

A proper, not FMJ, 22 caliber bullet will have the most potential to cease nefarious activity, while also shredding as it passes through the building materials, limiting collateral damage. A thirty caliber one, three times as heavy, not so much.

As you say though,

I think most any military loading will be sufficient to the task.

It will be.
And since you are a fan of the x39, you should use that. And enjoy it!

Neither cartridge lacks and they’re coming from the same rifle, and because you will own both anyway, there isn’t a wrong answer.

Now, just to wait for it to arrive!

 

[Zerodefect]

5.56. Its reliable and works.

If I have to deal with the headaches that come with odd ball rounds in an AR, itll be for 6.8spc or .300blk.

 

[mavracer]

A proper, not FMJ, 22 caliber bullet will have the most potential to cease nefarious activity, while also shredding as it passes through the building materials, limiting collateral damage. A thirty caliber one, three times as heavy, not so much.

This is the reason I chose to keep my 5.56 loaded with 50gr varmint bullets in the house. I don't have a X39 but I do have a 300 Blackout, if I was to use it I'd probably opt for something like a 110 vmax.

 

[someguy2800]

I would do a 5.56 loaded with varmint bullets. Less over penetration and better terminal performance. My favorite AR’s to shoot are 7.62x39, but if I had to defend myself, 5.56 all the way.

 

[derek45]

5.56 by a mile.

7.62x39 magazines are clunky, save it for commie guns

if you want bigger, got with 6.8SPC or 6.5Grendel

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

5.56 due to reliable and accessible ammo.

Plus, I'm starting to like speed over weight as far as ballistics against thin-skinned "game". I don't think the 7.62x39 is much more powerful than the 5.56, in regards to energy. The 5.56 has speed, the x39 has weight/diameter.

Plus there aren't as many premium options for x39.

I love both, but I'd pick 5.56

This. Reliability is huge.

That said, I was surprised at how soft recoil and muzzle blast from a unsuppressed 300 blackout.

It was loud, sure, but nothing like the 5.56 next to him.

 

[d2wing]

It doesn't matter much at close range. You probably don't need the extra range and effectiveness of the 5.56/223. A few good men have been holding off hordes with the 7.62x39 for 50 years now. I know firsthand how important it is to be able to make one shot kills at 400 meters is better than the guy with an AK that can't hit you that far away. There is a reason for the cults that want you to have a shorter-range weapon and, in many cases, less accurate. On both humans and deer the wounds show much more tissue damage with the 5.56/223 compared to the 7.62x39 but the 7.62x39 does penetrate a little more in soft tissue. Depends on what you are shooting. For you it probably doesn't matter.

 

[d2wing]

Among the many wrong ideas about the 7.62x39 from the Perfect Union guys is why it was designed to be low powered. It is about the recoil pulse so it can be fired full automatic for the weapons it was designed for. The 5.56 NATO was designed to be fired effectively full automatic as well.

 

[Demi-human]

I was surprised at how soft recoil and muzzle blast from a unsuppressed 300 blackout.

I was too! Like a rimfire, with 220 grains of payload.
Suppressed was, not unexpectedly, much quieter.

The draw back to my wonderful Blackout is that I don’t live upstairs shooting into the yard or basement anymore. Those heavy bullets work awesome wonder on my targets. They do the same for everything, penetrate.
I don’t need that when I’m using a rifle. It will be plenty anyway.

Even the even the 75 grainBTHP and AMax would pass through the target, backing plywood, skip off the ground and blow through both sides of a deer blind, sideways. (Oops!)
Like @someguy2800 said, and I alluded to earlier, “a proper loading”. Even some 22 loads are too much. Uh, in my opinion.

Im thinking of what a “varmint style” bullet does to a raccoon, and having that happen in a human chest, or even shoulder, just now…

(…shudders…)

 

[Demi-human]

7.62x39 magazines are clunky, save it for commie guns

if you want bigger, got with 6.8SPC or 6.5Grendel

One being based off the x39 and 220 Russian, the other off a semi auto round from 1906, that wasn’t around to see an AR mag.

Yet, I still agree with both statements. Hmm, strange and neat!

 

[rizbunk77]

I apologize ahead of time if this one is asking for trouble! But if you had access two otherwise-identical AR/AR-adjacent carbines, one in 5.56 NATO and the other in 7.62x39 which would you prefer to rely on for home defense? And why?

After ages on a waiting list I've finally secured a spot in the queue for a PWS Mk116 Mod 1 upper in x39! My deposit is paid and the uppers should ship in Nov/Dec. In preparation I've already picked up 7 x 28 round C-Products Duramags and a little ammo (waiting to get a pile of ammo til I see what the carbine likes). I'm an unabashed PWS fanboy so this will be a nice complement to my Mk114 Composite gun.

Nowadays x39 ammo isn't as dirt cheap as it once was but it's still pretty reasonable, and generally ubiquitous. It's a bit more powerful than 5.56 and right now I don't have any .30 cal rifles at all!

So, the $64k question I put to the people of THR is provided they were equally reliable, which caliber would you pick for a defensive carbine if you could only choose one? For the sake of argument this carbine/rifle only has to serve as a defensive weapon, it's assumed to have other rifles to hunt and shoot targets with.

5.56 does not penetrate cinderblock like 7.62X39 so for urban defense and not wanting errant bullets killing bystanders I chose 5.56.

 

[Chuck R.]

5.56....

I keep my HD AR15 loaded with Speer 62 Grain .223 Gold Dot Personal Protection Ammo, basically the same thing as their LE ammo.

I can get the bullets for reloading, so there no issues finding it. I chrono'd the factory stuff, then duplicated it for practice & reliability.

Also does a number on coyotes, which is my most likely real use around here.

 

[entropy]

5.56.

 

[Old Hobo]

How about farm defense. I'd go .223 w/scope to take-on coyotes and canine-family critters predating on my livestock. For the two-legged cattle rustlers, I'd go with the 7.62x39 because the two-legged critters hide behind their trucks to shoot at you. The 7.62 bullets go through metal thingies better than the much lighter .223 bullets.

For home defense, both of these rounds over-penetrate interior walls (unless the interior walls are made of brick). Drywall and 2" x 4" studs do not even begin to stop these rounds. Maybe if you could make 100% sure that your family could all make it to your designated safe room, you could then engage the invaders from this safe room by shooting through walls and doors (even the thickest of doors).
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[Vern Humphrey]

A thing to consider is that you can get 5.56 (.223 Reminton) loaded with extremely frangible bullets -- they won't exit a prairie dog and will break up on hitting the ground -- or any other substantial barrier. This is a good thing in a home-defense situation -- you won't shoot through two or three internal walls, your external wall and your neighbor's exterior wall.

5.56 is simply safer in a home defense situation.

 

[Ironicaintit]

For indoor HD shots?
7.62x39, loaded heavy (180gr+), keep it subsonic, and understand your homes lanes of fire.

but that's just me, apparently

 

[Shawn Dodson]

5.56 for home defense because it penetrates fewer walls than most defensive handgun bullets in the event of an errant shot.

7.62x39 for emergency preparedness (breakdown in law and order in the event of a major disaster, civil unrest, etc...) because even the cheapest ammo is barrier blind, whereas reliable barrier blind 5.56 ammo costs well over a dollar per round.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

For outdoors- .223.
Indoors- 9mm.
Best of both- suppressed .300BO.