Choosing carry ammo based on what police carry?

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It is great that folks like Ayoob, many gun instructors I have had including former LEOs, and that famous lawyers suggest using what the local cops use. It doesn't mean squat.

As to the question as to whether or not it could be used in court, sure, any aspect of the shooting situation can be introduced (usually) and somebody might put a spin on things that isn't great, but that goes for EVERY aspect of the shooting. Obviously, if you are going to believe that you need to carry the same ammo as the 'local' cops, then you have to carry the same gun because you will obviously need to have the same credibility with the gun as the ammo. Don't forget the holster. You need the same holster. If you have one of those nifty holsters without a retention strap, no doubt the lawyer will call it some type of speed draw holster and point to the fact that you were itching for a fight and wanted a holster where you could get your gun out quickly, without the retention strap that would slow you down.

What many of you are missing is the fact that it will boil down to whether or not you had the right to use lethal force. If you did, the ammo, gun, holster, brand name of your underwear, etc. will not be salient as to the specific shooting. As has been noted in cases in Chicago and New York, you had people producing guns for which they were not licensed, performing self defense shootings in their own homes, and not being charged for the shooting itself, but for possession of contraband. Even though they were using an item that they could not legally have in their possession, nothing about that aspect was relevant to the shooting. They were in fear for their lives and used lethal force within the bounds of the law. They were charged for the contraband, but that is a completely separate charge relative to the shooting itself and the killing of the intruders. The shooting simply alerted the cops to the fact that the individuals had contraband guns.

You know, if folks aren't going to suffer for having contraband/illegal guns they used to defend their lives in a justified shooting, do you really think whether or not a person using or not using the same ammo as the cops is going to make a hill of bean difference?

Get over the gumple (gun sheeple) garbage put out by large ego big name pseudowriter cops, lawyers with no court cases to claim to justify the points, or by gun rags. Take the time to read through some real information about shootings and shooting cases, use some basic reasoning, and make some informed decisions for yourself. Stop following the evangelic popular personalities of the gun world who seem to spout mythical realities for which they don't have justification!
 
Thank you for straightening me out Double Naught Spy. I don't know what I was thinking, listening to garbage put out by large ego big name pseudowriter cops, lawyers with no court cases to claim to justify the points, or by gun rags. Why would I do that when I have you ? The real authority.

In the city where I work, I have asked two cops what ammo they carried. They both knew immediately and showed me the factory box that they carried in the door panel of their car. I asked about the ammo for their AR: same thing, they knew exactly what it was and had extra in the car.
Our local police don't have to all carry the same gun. I don't know what criteria to use as to what is legal, but I see a variety of handguns including the 1911, which is what I carry. Since I carry concealed, I can't carry the same holster as a regular patrol officer, but I am sure that at least one plainclothes guy has a Milt Sparks Summer Special, so I am OK there also.
 
If I had a dollar for every time this came up...

I happen to be a prosecutor. I am responsible for the prosecution of all major felony level cases in my jurisdiction. I have reviewed more than a few self-defense shootings over the years. The type of ammo or whether it is reloaded or factory makes absolutely no difference in whether you are in legal hot water or not (assuming the ammo is not illegal). If the shooting is justified, you could have used a flame thrower or any other type of (legal) weapon of your choosing. I really wish people would take the time spent discussing this crap on internet talk boards and a little of the money they spend on new carry guns, ammo, holsters, etc. and hire an attorney to educate them on the laws relating to the use of deadly force in their state. With a good working understanding of the laws of self defense and the use of deadly force in their state, they will no longer worry about such non-issues as "carrying the same ammo the cops use" and they will know when they can employ the use of deadly force, thus saving them future legal problems. The issue has come up of a civil lawsuit in the aftermath of a shooting. In my state, a victim of crime is immune from a civil lawsuit of the criminal or his or her family. If you are forced to defend yourself or another with deadly force, you are a "victim", thus you are completely immune from a lawsuit. Of course, if you had hired a lawyer to educate you about the relevant laws in this state, you would know that...
 
I got a couple questions for you CZ:
You said "In my state, a victim of crime is immune from a civil lawsuit of the criminal or his or her family."
Does this apply in all 50 states ?

Second, how would it be viewed by an attorney if you made an appointment and discussed this with him ? What type of reaction would you get ? This may be a silly question I know. But, it would seem to me that if you went in and said, I carry a gun for self defense and want to know the legal details if I have to shoot someone, they might think you were planning on it or something ?

We need insight from real pros here.
By the way, since you are talking about the laws of your state, it would be nice to know what state you practice in.
 
444,
Your first question, that of whether the immunity thing applies to all 50 states, my answer is absolutely not. Each state legislature passes it's own laws that are only valid within the borders of that state. Ditto with state Supreme Court rulings on state laws.
The answer to your second question, that of what would your attorney think, is it is a non-issue. I have always been a prosecutor, so I have never practiced privately, but I have many friends who are defense attorneys and they get asked questions that are far and away more disconcerting that self-defense questions. Anyway, with the attorney-client privilage being what it is, should your attorney mention to others what they and you talked about, they would be looking for another line of work as their license to practice law would be gone like yesterday's lunch. Attorneys get to hear some incredibly strange things, questions about self-defense would be considered very normal. What sort of strange things you ask? A person I was prosecuting told me that he had long discussions with his attorney about a life size blow up sex doll he had. He would invite 6 or 7 15 year old boys over to his trailer house and give them pot if they would have sex with the blow up doll while he watched. They had sex with the blow up doll so much that it wore it out and it would not stay inflated. The only thing this person wanted to take with him to prison was a picture of the blow up doll. He pleaded with the judge and I to be able to keep a picture of this doll. It seems he was in love with it or something. Apparently he talked with his attorney for hours about this blow up doll. Then imagine the next client that attorney has an appointment with is you and your questions about self defense law. See how that puts things in perspective!
As for the state I prosecute in, I give out very little personal information on public boards such as this one, but I will tell you that it is Minnesota.
 
Nice to see another MN atty. As you could probably guess from my screen name, I do patent law up here. Thanks for your responses on the thread.

patent
 
444, as you may know I'm a criminal defense attorney (former prosecutor) in Indiana. I have had several clients ask the exact question that you proposed. I would find nothing unusual about it. In fact, I would be cheered by such an inquiry BEFORE anything happens.

Sometimes they ask specific questions, sometimes they want a general outline, some do not know exactly where to start. I prefer they write their questions down as it helps them focus and saves them time (=money). I give them as long as they want and we usually get around to talking about guns afterwards, this being Indiana and all.:D

cz, wow! Don't know if I can top that.:uhoh:
 
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