Reason to stop carrying?

[george burns]

When a gun goes off, bad guys run for the nearest exit, not shoot it out with the guy who shot one of them. This is not the movies when a gun goes off they head for the nearest door or window. Of course you could get the exception, but you already had time to stage your next shot, which should leave you with 2 or 3 rounds provided you had time to stage your first shot. If not, then don't take it, you are not a cop and have no duty to confront them in the first place. They may not all even be armed. If you see one with the gun, then shoot him first obviously.

 

[buck460XVR]

Carrying a firearm is a personal choice and should be determined by the individual as to what and if to carry. Peer pressure and admonishing should not be the motivation in either direction. If a person is uncomfortable carrying or comfortable not carrying, it's their choice and the reason/reasons should not matter to the rest of us. Same goes for folks that EDC. I know plenty of folks that served our country well that came home wanting nuttin' to do with guns. I also know of folks that had negative experiences with firearms in the civilian world that want nuttin' to do with them, even if their life depended on it. Kinda the nice thing about America......we have that choice.

 

[Kleanbore]

When a gun goes off, bad guys run for the nearest exit, not shoot it out with the guy who shot one of them.

Do you have a basis for that assertion?

but you already had time to stage your next shot, which should leave you with 2 or 3 rounds provided you had time to stage your first shot.

What on Earth do you mean by that?

If you see one with the gun, then shoot him first obviously.

Would you do that if another one were closing in on you with a knife?

 

[Armed 24/7]

Last time I checked, 5>3.

Yes I know that individual shots are not very likely to make a bad guy D.R.T.
But it's still an advantage.
Having said that, I agree that going to a higher capacity gun is a wise move.
After all, "individual shots are not very likely to make a bad guy D.R.T."
Best of fortunes to your friend, Critter.

If the three of them had received 1 to 2 hits per person ( assuming an outstanding hit ratio under stress) their determination and plans probably would have changed a bit.

 

[Hanzo581]

It scared him. He decided that, had he been there, he would have engaged with his 5-shot J-frame and would have been outnumbered, outgunned and likely shot.

What in this situation prompted him to think he must act? Unless he had a clear advantage going into a 3 vs. 1 situation probably isn't the best idea, no matter what the internet commandos say.

I urge people to watch Active Self Protection's videos on youtube, he break down footage of real self defense situations that were caught on camera. A lot of good pointers to be had.

 

[jjones45]

Being in a near violent situation where I would be outmanned and outgunned would make me want to carry more guns and ammo, not stop carrying all together. What good is it to be outmanned, outgunned and unarmed. Am I missing something here? Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you have a duty to shoot it out with bank robbers and such. A ccw is a last choice option when it's life or death for you or someone, not to be a hero and save the day. The people's money is insured by the federal government, your life is not

 

[ArchAngelCD]

After 6 months of posts I'm still at a loss as to why the friend of the OP felt obligated to play police officer? His SD handgun is just that, for SD, not for playing LEO. Why in the world would anyone feel the need to "engage" bank robbers just to stop the robbery?

Like I said before, it's probably a good thing he decided to no longer carry.

EDIT: Just a note, the OP has not posted in this thread since the day if was created, Sept. 10, 2016. Hmmmmm.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

Had a friend who was into guns in a big way for many, many years. Had a CCW and carried all the time, mostly a S&W J-frame.

Three vermin in our town kidnapped a lady for her car, put her in the trunk, hauled her to a secluded place, took her out and murdered her. Used the car as a getaway in the robbery of a local branch bank-----the one my friend frequented and had just left a few minutes earlier.

It scared him. He decided that, had he been there, he would have engaged with his 5-shot J-frame and would have been outnumbered, outgunned and likely shot.

Scared him so badly, he stopped carrying all together!

Not likely my reaction. Anybody else have reacted that way? Anybody else ever been in a similar situation? I would appreciate any comments and/or insight regarding the situation. Thanks.

As others have said, if he's not willing to engage (and this is smart, because if the robbers aren't shooting the place up, if all they do is go in and get the hell out) then the best thing he could do is get a mental picture of the perps: what they are wearing, tattoos or distinguishing traits, physical make up (height and weight), car description, etc. Really, that's probably what I would do, then give law enforcement as much info. as I can so law enforcement can do their jobs.

Now, if the robbers start shooting the place up, that's a different story, then yes, I engage. If the robbers are going to shoot and kill and impose their violence on the victims, I am forced to engage via my ability to engage which is my gun. If I die, I die. But hopefully, I scare the robbers enough that they bug out. If they aren't expecting return fire, they may flee. In fact, I'd almost guarantee that they cut their losses and get the hell out.

 

[Kaeto]

I train with my EDC with the expectation that if I have to use it I am going to get hurt by the BG, and to continue through the pain. (it helps that I am in constant pain anyway.)

 

[Hokkmike]

And just maybe, she might be alive today had he engaged.

 

[mercervillerental]

I've considered not carrying for a host of reasons but don't think this would be one of them. I'd like to think not engaging would be my first instinct

 

[Vonderek]

It sounds to me that there is more to the equation than carry or not. This situation is pretty intense and I think he needs some psychological counseling.

 

[Sarge]

Well after having read thru this over the days I think I'll "volunteer" my .02 worth.
When I decided to carry I also decided that should the need arise I would - WITHOUT hesitation - use it if/when necessary!
I don't care it there are 3 or 4 and they all have guns, I will engage! I will have several things going in my favor -
1. I will most likely have the element of surprise on my side!
2. I am ready & willing to shoot!
3. I will not have to study the situation to decide what I will do! I Will have to quickly determine which is the greatest threat, he goes first!
4. I will Not quit shooting until they are all down or disarmed.
I also have an advantage that very few others have - I have previously engaged in close quarter combat, both with a rifle & a pistol, Soo - been there done that! And as the saying goes - got the scars to prove it!
Oh, and I'm still walking around and they are in a hole in the ground!!!
Sarge

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Sarge
For those of us that have walked into the darkness of combat and come home, we have been tested. But there are many that carry guns that have never had a real person in their sights or at the end of their muzzle.
Most that carry a gun for protection think that they could shoot another person, but until that day comes they will truly never know.
Killing is easy, living with it is the hard part. I have a friend that saw his share of combat. He came home and became a LEO. One day things went bad. On a traffic stop a man pulled a gun and shot him. His training kicked in. He walked away from the fight. Years later while talking with him, I found out that he still has trouble dealing with that day. He said that he never wanted to kill anyone, but the guy on that traffic stop gave him no choice.
I tell people that if they are not willing to take another human life, they don't need to carry a gun.
I have told young LEOs that if they are not willing to take another life, get another job. I have lost 9 of my brothers in the line of duty within the last 14 years. One died because they were not willing to kill the person that took their life.
For those that carry, I pray that you never have to use you weapon to take another life.

 

[Kendahl]

If we take the initial post at face value, the friend would have engaged the bank robbers on sight. That is, he would have skipped the first three letters in OODA and jumped straight to the last. By the time he realized what he was up against, he would have been irrevocably committed. I once knew a Porsche owner who thoughtlessly drove into a fog bank at 85 mph. He got through it without a wreck but the experience scared him so badly that he sold the car. Both person's responses were based on emotion rather than logic. The concealed carrier could learn to use all the letters in OODA and the driver could have paid proper attention to what was in front of him.

It's also possible that the friend finally began to consider all the ramifications of initiating a gun battle. Would he have made the situation worse instead of better? What would have been the consequences to him, not just the possibility of physical injury but of legal action and criticism of his intervention? It is very possible that he found all of this overwhelming and ceasing to carry was a way to relieve himself of the need to make such a decision.

 

[If1HitU]

I will carry till I die,or get so sick I can't get around by myself .I wouldn't make any difference then anyway.

 

[Rick McC.]

I'll stop carrying when I'm dead (or maybe not)...

 

[WVGunman]

Some people ought not go about armed while in public, or even own a gun. If they can realize it themselves, so much the better.

Agreed. I also think it's a bad idea to carry a concealed weapon expecting to win a gunfight with multiple armed opponents. If you think a confrontation like THAT is likely, you need to be much better armed. Given their obvious limitations in accuracy, power, and ammo capacity, I have always thought of concealed weapons as matters of last resort. This is just my opinion, but it seemed obvious their role is to be used along with tactical surprise against a single person or (at most) two unarmed persons, or when it was clear one's life is directly threatened, and its fight back or die. A situation wherein a person can choose to not engage doesn't fit any of those descriptions. That's when you let the police handle it or walk away.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I also think it's a bad idea to carry a concealed weapon expecting to win a gunfight with multiple armed opponents. If you think a confrontation like THAT is likely, you need to be much better armed.

If you think a confrontation like that is likely, you need to put yourself in the position to AVOID that confrontation, notify law enforcement, and let them do their job.

If someone has a grudge against you and you think they may follow you with some friends in tow, that's different. A bigger gun is warranted for defense when there may be no other option. However the OP's friend is concerned he would stumble into a bad situation, and be unable to control himself. Carrying a bigger gun is not the solution. Refusing to carry at all is not the solution.

Psychological counseling is the solution. The inability to walk away from a fight is a good way to end up dead, in the hospital, or in prison.

I do not believe in vigilantism, or in pacifism. Save your life if you can. Save another person's life if you can also. Money and property is replaceable, not a life, and not your freedom if you screw up.

 

[JFrame]

His reaction seems counterintuitive.
Like seeing a bad car wreck, and then deciding not to wear your seatbelt.

...Or to stop driving a car...

 

[Ca survivor]

so your friend rather be a victim, instead of taking some with him, does he knows there are guns with more capacity ?

 

[hdwhit]

critter wrote:
Scared him so badly, he stopped carrying all together!
Not likely my reaction. Anybody else have reacted that way? Anybody else ever been in a similar situation?

They made the right decision for them. When someone is not confident in their ability to make a proper decision on the use of deadly force, not confident in their ability to actually employ deadly force and are uncertain of or unwilling to deal with the outcome, then they should not carry.

Anybody else have reacted that way?

J-frame with 5 shots, no hostages, just money and robbers retreating after they had the cash; yeah, I think I would have decided that getting into a shootout with three opponents for some little pieces of green paper was not worth my life.

Anybody else ever been in a similar situation?

Not me.

Every time I have had to produce a weapon or use it, the situation has been thrust upon me and I had no choice but to act in defense of my own life.