Could this become a Waco/Ruby Ridge? Happening RIGHT NOW!

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im not seeing the insults you're referring to?
I only needed to go one post up to find one, viz.
it seems some folks reverse the usual order of developing maturity.
Suggesting that anyone who disagrees with him is suffering from some form of dementia is stepping off the High Road in my opinion. Rather than attacking people you disagree with (and don't tell me that's not an insult), why not just attack the arguments you disagree with? Counter-arguments are usually the best way.
 
shucks

and here i thought someone asked how i felt about income tax. and i related my opinions/actions, what motivated them and how i saw they related to this guy who is getting ready to do suicide by government agent.were i seeking to be insulting this would be too easy. i virtual smorgasbord of oppurtunity here. hard to pass on em
 
We got from 1776 to 1913 without personal income taxes. We got from 1913 to WWII without withholding.
There’s no way you can compare how wonderful it was in 1800 or 1900 to today. In1900 the average life expectancy was 47 years (in 1940 it was only 62), average education was 5 years of schooling. (And only 50% of kids had any schooling at all.) Yeah, we got along just fine as long as you were happy with living down on the farm or working in the sweat shops. If this is what you really want, move out into the woods and become self-sufficient. If you don’t have any income, you won’t have any taxes.
I’m not necessarily supporting the current tax structure as we know it. I don’t care for the way they spend my money any more than anyone else does. I am arguing that some sort of a “revenue enhancing” scheme is necessary in today’s society. No one, so far, has bothered to come up with anything viable as to what this would be. . And no matter what it turns out to be, it’s still “taxes”, just under some other name.
They just parrot how we never used to have income taxes and we got along just fine. I tend to differ on this point. I know I sure wouldn’t want to live under the conditions in either 1800, 1900 or even 1940. Of course, I wouldn’t have to as, statistically, I’d already be dead.
Oh, and I’m still waiting for the list of other programs that the Federal Government would use to “fund itself without instituting a single new tax” that would replace the Income Tax if it were abolished. I guess it could be done by just raising existing taxes to make up the difference. Still “taxes” under another guise.
 
In1900 the average life expectancy was 47 years
That had to do with medical issues. And we need to fund the Govt why?
Sales tax, property tax and all the municipal taxes aren't enough to take care of our 'quality of life'. Maybe you feel that the govt. knows how to spend our money better than we do.
 
That had to do with medical issues.
And where do you think a lot of the funding for research came from? The tooth fairy? It called government grants.

Sales tax, property tax and all the municipal taxes aren't enough to take care of our 'quality of life'?

This isn't government collecting all of these? (Just a lower level). And these would have to increase to make up the difference if we quit funding the Federal Gov.

And I suppose we owe all that to the Federal Income Tax.

Maybe, maybe not. You got a better answer?
 
And where do you think a lot of the funding for research came from? The tooth fairy? It called government grants.

Like the guy I knew in CO that was paid $100,000.00 a year to study swallow migration. Uhummm....
 
He had his day in court and chose not to go...Obviously they pull down a nice amount of cash from her job...so pay up already and quit trying to make a scene.

Its nice to think everyone should buck the system and not pay what you owe in taxes, but its our system and its worked pretty damn good so far...Oh its FAR from perfect, but it sure is a lot closer than the vast majority of other places out there

He's a freaking nut who sent his wife to do his dirty work. He needs to be a man, pay what he owes and go on living in his bunker

Its fine to admire his convictions...but he is apparently wrong and needs to pay up
 
There’s no way you can compare how wonderful it was in 1800 or 1900 to today. In 1900 the average life expectancy was 47 years (in 1940 it was only 62), average education was 5 years of schooling. (And only 50% of kids had any schooling at all.)
Most of the improvement to life expectancy has come from technology invented by the private sector, quite seperate from anything achieved by government. Also keep in mind the 50 years you list would have consisted of time spent working with and for family members shaping eachothers morals values and seeing the fruits of your own labor. Contrast that with today where the average child is more influanced by others, may lack any resemblance to the parent because they spend most of thier time seperate and imparting very little morals on a daily basis. Where family is the people you eat dinner with or go to sleep with, but not who you live life with. Who had it better?
If this is what you really want, move out into the woods and become self-sufficient. If you don’t have any income, you won’t have any taxes.
This is inherently false as to build a home requires permits that require money and lots of time waiting for inspection, the permits require income to pay for. Once self self sufficient there is still property taxes etc. On top of this you are not legaly allowed to make all that you need. Want a firearm? Taxes must be paid to legaly build one. Want ammunition? Well you cannot buy reloading supplies without income and that would be taxed. Make ammunition from scratch? I believe making explosives requires multiple permits and the nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin you would have to produce to make smokeless powder would be illegal to produce without permits. To purchase those permits you would need to sell something or have some sort of income, thus taxed. The same can be said for many other tools. Producing most simple chemicals without permits would be illegal, yet they are required for the manufacter of most goods you would need to be self-sufficient.
Making modern tools? Requires permits for many that would thus require income that is taxed. Get sued, even falsely or have someone claim your property and have to defend it in court? Have someone make you a victim or have to defend yourself? Requires attorneys that require income to pay for, thus taxed. Your logic is flawed in assuming someone can decide to live outside of the permits and taxation involved in our system. You cannot ever be self-sufficient, it is designed that way.
Oh, and I’m still waiting for the list of other programs that the Federal Government would use to “fund itself without instituting a single new tax” that would replace the Income Tax if it were abolished. I guess it could be done by just raising existing taxes to make up the difference. Still “taxes” under another guise.
Actualy the solution is not to try to pay for all the current expenses and bureaucracies in thier current form without a hiccup. It would be to trim the fat. The government could get by on half its current budget, and the states would be no worse off as the untaxed money would still be in circulation, not just non existant as you paint it. Yes in some locations more 4x4 vehicles and ATVs would be needed, but is that that big of an inconvenience for all the freedoms gained? Would it have to be that way everywhere? No. Would we have to be in less constant warfare to stay within budget? Probably.
It could be managed, fat would have to be trimmed. The failure in your logic is that the current expenses would still be required with less taxes. Government makes due and spends a little bit more than the budget it has, period. If they have less budget, and strict tax restrictions, they will decide what is most important and still provide most critical services like self defense. Because citizens in states would have more money to spend, more sales taxes would be produced without raising taxes one bit. The state could easily pick up the slack with this increased revenue for critical services. The only real change would be the federal government wouldn't be able to dictate it's policies by forcing politicians to fall over backwards changing local policies to qualify for federal funding.
State and local governments take the easy way out and give up much of thier freedom to qualify for federal money. If there is no extra federal money to qualify for, and the citizens are creating more sales tax in the state then the easy way out is not an option. They have to actualy manage themselves and stay within budget, what a concept?!
If schools did not shape thier curriculum to federal standards to qualify for federal government, guess what? You would actualy control what your schools taught your children. If every single agency was not able to find ways to leech off federal funding and become dependent on that income then the policies and outcomes would be decided on a more local level. When the feds are not giving handouts then they cannot tell people what they must do and how they must use those handouts. Wow freedom to decide government on a local level, what a foriegn concept?
Things would only be difficult originaly as existing government was forced to adapt. Most would adapts, a couple would change nothing and bankrupt, being replaced by less corrupt more adaptable government. It would all balance out.
 
deadin
"I’m not necessarily supporting the current tax structure as we know it. I don’t care for the way they spend my money any more than anyone else does. I am arguing that some sort of a “revenue enhancing” scheme is necessary in today’s society."

Yes you are, here on this forum.

As far as “revenue enhancing” , I am in favor of cutting Govt. spending. End the HUGE waste of money that is the "war on drugs". Fire all the BATFE. Put the rest of the agencys on a diet.
Cut Govt. wages. If the Govt. wasn't in our buisness and meddleing in our lives, it would not need all that money.
 
This life expectancy thing has some hornswaggling goin on.

The vast improvements were made in infant mortality.

In yon days of yore if you lived past 1 you were pretty much OK.

Somebody could post a link.

My Grandfather born in 1874 lived to be 96. My Father born in 1914 lived to be 81.

Me, born in 1943 will be lucky to make it to 70.
 
Also there were some who asked where his supporters are.
They have been showing up. Armed friends and supporters have arrived. How many? I don't know, If I did I wouldn't say.
It would be nice if the stormtroopers found themselves out numbered and out gunned. It is about time that the servents were put in there place.
Sshh, don't let them know we're here.
 
The world would be a better place if no one lived past 55.
I realize and admit that the following is merely my opinion, but.....

That has to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen on here in a while.

:cool:
 
My Grandfather born in 1874 lived to be 96. My Father born in 1914 lived to be 81.
My grandparents were all born in the 19th Century also, one born 1887, and they all lived into their nineties. The stats for life expectancy, as you say, are misleading. Most people back then didn't have the intensity of care immediately following birth that we take for granted, so lots of babies died in their first year. That skews the states way down, but most babies survived, and when they did, most folks lived a normal life span, typically into their 70s and 80s.
 
Also there were some who asked where his supporters are.
At least one of the articles said that hundreds of armed men volunteered to stay with him to help him defend his home, but he turned most away because he didn't have enough food and water for that many.
 
This man's situation seems to have been one of initial confusion and failure on the part of he and his wife. He appears to have made errors in judgement and action in dealing with his tax obligation. It also seems that true to form the IRS has taken a minor amount of money owed and turned it into a much larger sum through the legal magic of interest and penalties. This gentleman
may have finally decided "in for a penny, in for a pound". He may have felt that since the IRS is going to absolutely bankrupt him and turn him into a pauper that he would make a public statement about it by his acts rather than just turning belly up and going broke peacefully and quietly. Only a truly deluded person would believe that defying the IRS and subsequent legal
verdicts would end with him triumphing. But a sane person may accept that the outcome would be extremely distasteful and decide to simply make a public statement by action. He may not be crazy, just fed up and past the point of actually caring about what happens to himself in the future.

Should he have paid his taxes, probably yes. Thats not a fight the average citizen can win. Should he be screwed into the ground and bankrupted by the onerous actions of the IRS. No, but that sure won't stop them. Defying the judgement and verdict of a court simply adds to problems he has. Hopefully he will be able to make his case in the court of public opinion and then surrender, do some time and get on with his life. Or we may never hear
all the details of the way this ends. Time will tell.
 
The world would be a better place if no one lived past 55.

That has to have been posted by someone that is way shy of 55.:D It's amazing how one's attitude changes as one gets older.

This life expectancy thing has some hornswaggling goin on.
These are average ages, not exceptions. At one time I had the Mortality Tables for London in the 1700's. It seemed that if you made it to around 4 or 5, you were good until your late 30's. If you made it into your 40's you could be good for another 30 or 40 years. The main problem was that most didn't.

End the HUGE waste of money that is the "war on drugs". Fire all the BATFE.
.
Legalize drugs and totally unrestrict firearms, interesting. I think I would prefer you wait a few years until I'm gone.

Wow freedom to decide government on a local level, what a foriegn concept?
I seem to remember that we fought a war about this very subject about a hundred and forty some odd years ago. Guess what.. the State's Righter's lost but have never been able to live with the fact.
I also find it curious that those that seem to detest the Federal government are the same ones that want the Feds to pass laws that will mandate all States have the same laws when it comes to CCW, Full Auto, Right to Carry, RKBA, etc. If we neuter the Feds as is being proposed, and go to State autonomy, what's to make anyone think that the individual States will ever get together on their laws.
Or is it just 'as long as I get what I want, everyone else can go suck eggs'
 
If we neuter the Feds as is being proposed
Although that is the most intelligent thing you have posted yet, it is unnecessary.

If we were to follow the principles of federalism as the founders wrote, it would not have to happen.

You talk like the world would end if we couldn't keep funding all these things that .gov pays for.

The constitution allows for congress to do 18 things. Public education isn't one of them. The Helium board isn't one of them. atf isn't one of them. Making war on drugs is not one of them. The department of agriculture isn't one of them. Socialist Security isn't one of them.

I could go on and on but to summarize, there are only 18 of them.
 
hmmm...

...
The world would be a better place if no one lived past 55.
...
rauch06.gif


...I resemble that remark...:scrutiny:
 
I guess I tend to look at government the same as a business. There is an old proverb in business that if a company doesn't re-invent itself every 100 years or so, it's doomed to failure. And by re-invent I mean change. I think the same thing could be said about government. If it's static, as some seem to want by advocating returning to 1775, it's not going to work. Governments and businesses need to be dynamic to succeed. I just don't see where going back to State automony would do anything other than create 50 squabbling little governments with no one to oversee them. If the central government isn't strong enough to tell the individual States to sit down and shut up I guess we could break up like the Balkans and the 'Stans. Maybe that's the way to go.:barf:

Cropcircle, I see you are from the South. I'm a Northerner.
Guess we're still fighting the Civil War.:evil:
 
Derby FALs:
The world would be a better place if no one lived past 55.
meef:
I realize and admit that the following is merely my opinion, but.....

That has to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen on here in a while.
Derby FALs:
Got anything to back it up?
Well pard, since I clearly stated that it was merely my opinion, I don't really think that requires my backing it up.

But let's put it this way....

The day before you turn 56, cut your throat and make the world a better place for everyone else.

In other words, put your money where your mouth is - so to speak.

:)
 
It will only work if everyone does therefore it is futile for me to do it. :neener:

Think of it in world population alone.

BTW another and awhile where not considered proper English at one time.
 
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