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Etiquette question

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Alex23, Aug 6, 2011.

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  1. Alex23

    Alex23 member

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    A friend of mine was in the market for a new concealed carry pistol. He went to a LGS and had a good look at the model he was interested in. He was mostly focused on how it compared to his Glock 36 in terms of size.

    He then said 'Don't freak out, I want to do a comparison' and pulled his Glock from an IWB holster, slowly, pointed it away from people and unloaded it. The chambered round went on the counter, he took the mag out and the pistol was left locked open and handed to the salesperson.

    Was that bad form?
     
  2. MJ_ATL

    MJ_ATL Member

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    Depends, does the LGS have a "no loaded weapons" sign? I know I can get away with carrying hot at my LGS/Gun Club but its generally frowned upon for the majority of members and customers.

    Sounds like he handled the weapon properly and safely, all depends on the LGS and their policies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  3. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    He should have asked if he could unholster/unload his firearm and receive permission BEFORE he even began to reach for it. Also, "Don't freak out...", isn't the best statement to make if you don't want people to freak out. It's like your dentist telling you, "Don't tense up or this might hurt".
     
  4. BFC

    BFC Member

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    There was no Sub-c Glock in the counter? Not much of LGS if they didn't!! Depends on the LGS policy but I generally try not to pull out a gun in a in a room where I know the guy behind the counter is packing.....regardless, maybe not bad per say but I would consider his conduct not very thoughtful. Just my opinion.
     
  5. tipoc

    tipoc Member

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    The above is the way to proceed in my experience.

    The "Don't freak out..." bit could also be seen as a tad insulting.

    tipoc
     
  6. TennJed

    TennJed Member

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    My first thought exactly. Ask to see the stores glock and compare....if they do not have one you should absolutely ask if it is ok....first you are dealing with a gun...the man behind the counter has no idea what kind of safety knowledge this person has....my first impression is that it sounds like someone trying to show off they know how to operate a gun....may not be the case but that is my first impression
     
  7. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    Not something I'd like to see if I was behind the counter. I feel your friend should have told the LGS owner exactly what was on his mind and asked before proceeding. In my time behind the counter, I have been in somewhat similar situations, and did say something about it.

    If I'm going into a LGS where I'm not greeted by name, I walk in empty handed, and whatever is holstered stays there. If I have to handle one of my firearms, uncased, the person is informed of my intentions and a I get their approval beforehand. Even if that means going back out to the car to get it.

    For the record, I'm only greeted by name at one gun store. And I have been behind the counter there.
     
  8. Plan2Live

    Plan2Live Member

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    "Don't freak out" could just as easily been followed up with "this is a robbery". I'm in the camp of ask first, especially when others around me are also armed. In fact, I would feel best in a situation like this if the store employees, knowing what was about to happen, had their hands on their weapons just in case this guy was a nut job. And as the dude out in Fort Hood last week proved, there are still lots of those running around.
     
  9. Lawdawg45

    Lawdawg45 Member

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    "He should have asked if he could unholster/unload his firearm and receive permission BEFORE he even began to reach for it. Also, "Don't freak out...", isn't the best statement to make if you don't want people to freak out. It's like your dentist telling you, "Don't tense up or this might hurt". "

    Mike has given the best advice.

    LD45
     
  10. BlkHawk73

    BlkHawk73 Member

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    Always ask first regardless! Consider how you'd feel if you were on the other side of the coin.
     
  11. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    I used to work in the LGS..., We didn't have a sign posted that said "no loaded weapons". I doubt it would've done any good if we had.

    Lots of folks walked in with handguns and long guns, to sell them. The problem with Maryland's Anti-Gun social norm, is that many folks walked in with little or no handgun experience. Dad's or Grandad's or the Ex-Husband's gun with total newbie often came in, not even knowing how to check of it was loaded. The lack of a large portion of the population being shooters means many gun owners in the state have no real standard of safe behavior to base their own actions upon.

    The normal custom was either to come in with it in plain sight, or bring it in cased or covered, either way it was supposed to be unloaded and open before coming into the store (unless you had the rare CC permit for Maryland). We frowned upon folks with CC permits drawing the sidearm.

    On several occasions we had customers come in with pistols, to offer for sale or discuss accessories, and etc. and we asked them to make the weapon safe by dropping the magazine and opening the slide..., and a live round ejected from the chamber. Illegal and unsafe, and one schmuck didn't tell us he had the handgun in his briefcase, pulls it out and in doing so pointed at one of the employees, who then quickly stepped to the side, and as the guy said "I don't keep one in the chamber" he promptly ejected a round onto the counter.

    So "don't freak out" and doing what he did would've simply gotten him a polite request to take his business elsewhere. Not out of anger, but because we couldn't risk encouraging our local goofs from doing the same in the future. They see one guy do it...., they think it's cool for everybody to do it.

    LD
     
  12. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I was in a LGS recently, and wanted to compare the Diamondback DB9 to my Kel-Tec PF9. I asked the owner to also show me his PF9 from the case, calmly explaining "so I won't have to unholster and clear my own." That at once informed him that safety was first on my mind, and that I was carrying a loaded weapon.
     
  13. Navin R. Johnson

    Navin R. Johnson Member

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    ^^THIS^^
     
  14. Remllez

    Remllez Member

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    I find it bad form, it's just as easy to make that gun safe at home put it in a handgun case and carry it into the gunstore. That way you can proceed after you ask permission and make your intentions known to the staff.

    I'm not being judgmental just expressing my opinion. This is the way my father taught me so I guess it's just force of habit. There may be a better way to do this but most people find it acceptable and less threatening.
     
  15. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Yeah, he should have asked. Some stores don't appreciate customers carrying on the premises, and they usually appreciate it even less when the customers decide to start handling them without permission.

    Not a major foul, but IMHO, he could have acted more appropriately.
     
  16. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Three big problems:

    1) If you are going to go comparison shopping, try out holsters, look for grips, etc -- bring the gun in UNLOADED and in a case. Gun shops don't (usually) have clearing barrels/traps and you simply don't hande a loaded gun in a public place. (Other than a range, of course.)

    2) If you forget No.1, or are struck by a sudden opportunity/need to handle the weapon, ASK the sales person how THEY want you to proceed. Maybe they're just "cool" with you doing it your way. Maybe they have a spot at the back of the store facing a safe wall where they'll take you to unload. ASK THEM. It shows respect, and shows that you are responsible and something more than a rank amateur.

    3) He got the order wrong: Drop the mag, THEN rack the slide.
     
  17. iblong

    iblong Member

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    To me it was bad form,In a store with customers Theres no risk of a ad/nd
    if you dont clear your pistol.
    Better to clear the weapon,bag it before you enter and put your mag in your pocket.One store I use he may have had a couple pointed at him,as they do post signs saying we dont know you do not remove you fire arm from your holster while in the store.Its a large store and every worker is required to carry.(open carry).Its also a trainning facility.
     
  18. turkdc

    turkdc Member

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    I would be concerned about getting myself shot. I have been in gun shops where I am not comfortable with people handling guns that came out from behind the counter. I don't <deleted> care if it isn't loaded, DON'T point it at me! If I was a shopper (carrying concealed) I would probably be a little on edge if someone drew their weapon without warning. If there was any hesitation in unloading and clearing the pistol, I think there is a possibility of a hot head drawing his own weapon on the customer.

    If you want to try on holsters, bring the gun in unloaded.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2011
  19. content

    content Member

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    Hello friends and neighbors // The last time I saw someone do this it was with a .45.

    Fellow walked in said something about "anybody like .45s" and started to sweep his shirt.
    The three of us went into action immediately.

    Shop owner dropped to one knee (ankle carry) behind the counter, I flanked right ,the other well known customer flanked left.

    He decided not to draw and before he could say another word the shop keeper told him "we are not buying any right now."

    I don't know what he thought cause I've never seen him again and he left right away, hopefully wiser.
    I do know he got our undivided attention quickly and in a bad way.

    A GS owner was killed like that, not long ago, not far away so folks here are a little edgy about guns being drawn suddenly.
    The murderer/ robber was caught but a good man died.

    "Don't freak out" tells me your friend knew he was in the wrong but did not care just pushed forward.
    Maybe showing off like the fellow with the .45.

    *************Aways Carry, Never Tell/Brandish**************
     
  20. Cop Bob

    Cop Bob Member

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    Was this bad form?

    Short answer... YES...

    next...
     
  21. JustSomeDude

    JustSomeDude Member

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    This was my response. It's not like he was carrying something out of the ordinary that the shop didn't already have (unloaded) in the case
     
  22. harvester

    harvester Member

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    Yep, bad form.
     
  23. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    While I agree that the "Don't freak out" line was a bit ... offputting, I do have to point out something rather entertaining here.

    In a gun shop, the place where we pursue our second amendment we're not allowed to handle our own weapons? As a matter off act, while carrying, we're not allowed to handle our weapons.
    Now, I'm not saying we should you know .... break out our guns in the mall and lovingly fondle them, but I have to question the comfort level of a gun seller with his own wares if he trusts only himself with guns.
    I once or twice have pulled out my own gun at the LGS to test a holster or mag, once at the request of the owner! and the other time after saying "Hey, lemme try my own gun with this ... lemme just clear it right now and ..."
    If someone is truly so scared that people around them may be handling guns ... as I said before, I don't see how they can support the 2nd Amendment in a realistic sense.
     
  24. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Loaded firearms in holsters are safe. Loaded firearms in HANDS are decidedly UN-safe. And they're so widely understood to be a safety risk, when handled, that we have nearly universally understood rules for how we proceed when drawing and manipulating one.

    Telling a gun shop owner or match director, safety officer, or anyone else who deals with armed people that they must set aside the safety rules that let them go home without extra holes each day, or they don't really support the 2nd Amendment is going to be good for a laugh.

    The right to keep and bear arms does not -- and shouldn't -- include the "right" to handle a loaded firearm in a public place. As they say, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. Your right to do with your weapon whatever you please ends at the point that it causes me risk of grievous harm. And when it's in your hands, loaded, absent a safe backstop and strict muzzle discipline, the risk to other people is simply too high.

    Now, in your example, you seem to be checking with the shop staff, or at least giving them an opportunity to comment, before you whip out your sidearm. As I said before, getting confirmation from the owner's representative of how they want you to proceed -- what way they feel comfortable that you're mitigating the extremely real, extremely serious risks that your handling of that firearm introduces -- is perfectly reasonable.

    But gun shop owners have seen down the barrels of WAAAAY too many guns -- and many, if not most, of them can point to craters in floors or holes in walls, ceilings, display cases, etc from the guys who proved my point. The smart ones establish standard safety practices to mitigate the risks inherent in their course of business, because -- while you're a safe and responsible guy, lots of others have proven not to be as much so, and the dealer and his staff would like to go home to their families each night.

    Rights come with responsibilities, and the RKBA comes with the responsibility that you do not risk great harm to your fellow man. Ask before you draw, be polite, safety conscious, and responsible, and you've not crossed the line of unacceptable risk. But give those around you reason to believe that you are, or will, risk their lives stupidly and you'll probably be dis-invited from their establishment. And that doesn't violate your RKBA one little tiny bit.
     
  25. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    I am not saying it is some sort of violation of my rights. As you yourself put it, I am checking whether it is kosher, but I am regularly amused at the sheer panic of supposedly rational people's inability to assume rationality in others. 8)
     
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