Help me pick a varmint rifle, please....

[duck911]

Just curious, why not a .204?

I honestly cannot think of a BETTER varmint round. It DOESN'T burn out barrels. It DOESN'T recoil. It's got better ballistics than just about everything else out there..

And, you can pick up a CZ 527 heavy varmint for under $600.

 

[stubbicatt]

+1 on the 204. If not this choice, then the 223 will hold you in good stead... once the war is over and you can get ammo again.

 

[dmazur]

+1 for .243.

I just got a Ruger M77 MarkII VT, which has a decent laminated stock, stainless action / barrel, and a decent trigger (not the standard M77 trigger).

1" or less with factory so far. Lots of positive comments from other owners of this model.

With a Leupold VXII 6-18X it weighs 11 lbs.

 

[eastwood44mag]

Duck-

Everyone else I have ever talked to has said that the .204 is loaded so hot that it shortens barrel life dramatically. The low bullet weight also makes me worry more about drift. I can compensate for drop, but not drift. Add in the fact that I HATE buying high dollar ammunition, and my reloading equipment is still in storage, so I can't handload at all. I just see it as being a waste of money. I don't need 4000 fps out of the barrel, and can't really see any other point to the round.

 

[duck911]

Everyone else I have ever talked to has said that the .204 is loaded so hot that it shortens barrel life dramatically. The low bullet weight also makes me worry more about drift. I can compensate for drop, but not drift.

I think you were given some wrong information....

The .204 case is such that is utilizes less pressure to yield better results. The .204 burns less powder and burns it's powder more efficiently than many 22 caliber rounds, so you can expect less powder fouling, muzzle jump, muzzle blast, and recoil than it's counterparts.

The lower pressures increase barrel life. The better ballistics and increased velocity mean that the round is impacted by wind LESS than most comparable rounds. If you look at the numbers, the .204 drifts LESS than many/most varmint rounds BECAUSE of it's superior velocity.

It'd be my opinion that you stop listening to your buddies and start looking at some real numbers to decide what's best for you.

There's a place for the .22-250, .223, .243, and .204 (I own all of them) but man, based on the queston you asked, I don't know that there is a better round than the .204 for you.

 

[rangerruck]

just remember, Roy Weatherby said it best, " speed kills". the 204 is amazingly fast, and with it's high b.c. and s.d., it does not drift in the wind as much as the fast 22's, Plus it is only slightly hotter than a 223, with less muzzle jump, so I would not worry about bbl life with a 204.
That being said, i would get a remmy17 fireball, handload some 30 grainers at about 3800 fps, and get busy.

 

[Freedom in theSkies]

Savage 12 Series, Model 12FVSS in .223 Remington (for barrel longevity).
Here is the link...http://www.savagearms.com/12fvss.htm
It prices out a little higher than you specified, but you dont often havreto pay full MSRP.

Optics: A 16X Super Sniper from SWFA.com .... 30mm tube, MilDot, 42mm Objective and rear Focus (side focus available). I have one and I love it! Only about 299.00 and built to Mil Spec.

The other rifle choice, although higher priced yet, is what I shoot for smallbore long range target and Varmint. A Ruger KM77 VT Mk. II./ Super Sniper 16X Optics
Viewed from the Ruger site: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7890&return=Y#

Has printed sub 5/8 " @ 200yds. and the longest kill on a Gopher (standing) was 550meters~ Measured by odometer.
I don't consider myself a particularly good shot, but I use handloads and occasionally it all comes together. I am sure that anyone else could do the same or better.
CHeerz!

 

[eastwood44mag]

I've never been much of a rifle shooter (as you have no doubt figured out), but speaking in terms of physics, as speed increases, doesn't the barrel heat increase? And isn't heat what burns out barrels (or rather strips them out, whatever the case may be), not the cartridge pressure?

 

[Outlaws]

I've never been much of a rifle shooter (as you have no doubt figured out), but speaking in terms of physics, as speed increases, doesn't the barrel heat increase? And isn't heat what burns out barrels (or rather strips them out, whatever the case may be), not the cartridge pressure?

Speed doesn't really cause the heat. Its the burning powder that causes heat.

 

[duck911]

You are right, heat is what burns out a barrel, but the damage is usually done in the throat area and is caused by the heat from burning gases, not so much the speeding bullet further down the barrel. A .22 caliber rifle barrel with 5,000 rounds down the barrel you'll likely be able to actually MEASURE the throat erosion but 3/4 way down the barrel may still have good rifling.

Clearly, I am really talking about barrel life reduction due to normal shooting, not melting a barrel down by shooting it until it's red hot

There's a few ways to combat this throat erosion; burn less powder, burn the same powder in a bigger bore, or otherwise reduce the pressure and hot gases that enter the throat.

As we've pointed out, the .204 burns less powder than comparable calibers (like the .220 Swift or .22-250) and flings that little bullet out and faster speeds. It's the best of both worlds - better performance and better barrel life. (although I bet a .223 barrel would just about shoot forever if a guy were to handload down a little, the .220 swift, 17 Remington, and .22-250 are notoriously hard on barrels at max loadings)

One other thing to note is that the .204 as loaded from the factory uses proprietary powders not available to the public that (they say) decrease fouling and increases speed.

Incidentally, I give ZERO credance to worries of barrel life. Even my .22-250 (which I never shoot anymore because of my .204) is said to have a barrel life of "only" a few thousand rounds if loaded hot. Then what happens? The bullet just drops out the end of the barrel and the rifle no longer goes bang? Well no, the bullet still goes where I was aiming, just not with the same benchrest precision it had 3,000 rounds ago. I bet that for most of my varmint hunting and target practice applications my .22-250 will still be shooting well at 4,000 rounds, not the 2,000 round count they say is the end.

And do the math on that: Even if I were to shoot a box of ammo every other weekend all year long, it will take me nearly 8 years to burn out that barrel!

--Duck911

 

[KI.W.]

My way making varminter..

Buy a Mauser 98 and then rebarreled. The last ones was 22-250 with T-chamber and heawy barrel and 12" rifling. (Nekst one shall to be 7" ot 9"). I am reloader and can to make also mild and pleasand loads for no barrel burning. ( If You use .220 Swith or .22-250 Rem and then .223 Rem, it is like to thow stones).

 

[KI.W.]

My way making varminter..

Buy a Mauser 98 and then rebarreled. The last ones was 22-250 with T-chamber and heawy barrel and 12" rifling. (Next ones shall to be 7" ot 9"). I am reloader and can to make also mild and pleasand loads for no barrel burning. ( If You use .220 Swith or .22-250 Rem and then .223 Rem, it is like to thow stones). Kauko.

 

[Harley Quinn]

264 win mag, was a real barrel burner as I remember.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.264_Winchester_Magnum

The heavier barrels and new material has probably helped.

It could be what some are happy with and others won't even give it a second glance

 

[Cueball]

I would also have to suggest a Savage Model 12FV. I have one in 223 and I took it groundhog hunting 2 weeks ago where it performed great! Every shot I took was over 300yds and half of them were over 400 yds. The accuracy was beyond my expectations. I killed everything I got a shot at except one. Using 55gr Hornady V-Max ammo in it gave me a very flat trajectory out to 400+ yds.

I would say definitely go with a 12FV in 223 or other caliber if you really feel the need for something other than 223.

Happy Shooting!

 

[Sagetown]

Greetings Eastwood:
Wal-Mart Sells most of the brands listed in your post.
Without a doubt CZ is what I'd go for considering your budget for the best bang.
Not discrediting any of the others, just that I've owned a CZ for years.

 

[skinewmexico]

Personally, I dream of shooting out, or burning out a barrel. How many of us can say that? And just think, that would mean you shot a ton. Get a Savage, and when you're accuracy falls off after a few thousand rounds (in any caliber), get a Shilen SS match barrel for $350, and put it on yourself in 15 minutes.

 

[Sagetown]

Duck; I've been looking into those CZ Varmint .204's. Haven't handled one yet, but did handle a Ruger and Savage. Too heavy for me! Kinda turned me off for a Varmint style, cause I like to walk the fields with my rifles.

The American CZ 527 .204 has too short a barrel to suit me, so I've about decided not to get one.

Besides, I can't seem to get away from that Bavarian Mannlicher half Stock on the standard CZ 527. Since it doesn't come in the .204, I'll settle for the .223. Hope to have one by January....

LG

 

[Shawnee]

Remington or Savage rifle, Definitely the .243 caliber.

 

[Bleys]

I seem to have hit this a month late. YOu could always go the path I am taking. A Thompson Center Pro-Hunter in whichever caliber you prefer. Personally after seeing amazing results with one on the range I can't wait to buy one with a 28" .204 barrel and a 25-06 or 22-250 barrel for slightly larger game. I watched as my best friend sighted in his fathers .204 pro-hunter at 100 yards and shot a grouping under .6 in with 45 grain factory loads. The only problem anyone I've talked to has ever had has been wanting to purchase a scope per each barrel so you don't have to swap scopes when you swap barrels. But that's only if you can stand it being a single shot rifle.

Edit: I almost forgot, if you do manage to burn out a barrel you can go buy a new one and install it yourself just like swapping barrels for different calibers.

 

[learningman]

I just pick up the new Savage Model 10 Predator in 223. It came with the scope on it. Its a Simmons 4x12x40 AO. I know that people cuss the Simmons but it really does seem like a nice scope( this will be my first Simmons). I picked the package up for $650. I still have yet to put it through all the paces yet but so far I love it. Plan on going out tommorrow or the next day depending on the weather and do some more shooting.

 

[theNoid]

Savage with the Accutrigger

Agreed, what a sweet system this is. .243 is nice because you can load it down for pDogs, and up for whatever else suits your fancy, and not too terribly expensive if you are loading yourself. Although I can say that plenty of folks around here in Wyoming stick with the 223 for varmints, including yodel dogs...and factory 223 is still about the cheapest non-rimfire around for such fun. Just my thoughts...

Noidster

 

[eastwood44mag]

Well, I bit the bullet tonight (no pun intended):

CZ 527 Varmint in .204 Ruger.

I just have to get the time to tailor a load before we go prairie dog hunting in a couple months. Should be interesting.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I'm thinking about getting a new varmint rifle, but need input. Would be used mostly for prairie dogs, possibly for coyotes as well. Still largely flexible, but there are some concerns:

-Must NOT be .204 Ruger
-Must be under $700 retail, preferrably less
-Must not be a hot-loaded round that will burn out my barrel
***************
Boy talk about a change of view, started out, did NOT want this and now you bought one Seems like you wanted others to talk you into the new "204" and started out by saying you were opposed to it... Interesting way of getting attention and directing the thread to it

http://www.varminthunter.org/downloads/Issue51.pdf

How much did you spend?
How much for dies?

 

[SST]

-Must NOT be .204 Ruger
-Must be under $700 retail, preferrably less
-Must not be a hot-loaded round that will burn out my barrel

You just described a .223. Shooting in a prairie dog town means 300-500 rounds a day. The .22-250 and the .243 are way too much of a good thing for an active dog town. You will definitely burn up barrels under those circumstances. Also, you will not be able to call your own misses with the recoil of those 2 cartridges. Speaking of recoil, either of the 2 will feel like a magnum by the end of the day. A .243 is also known for unexplained pressure spikes in known loads.

The .223 is not as optimal in a prairie dog town as almost any .20 caliber, and it is not as ideal for coyotes as the .22-250, but it will suffice for both without leaving you overgunned or undergunned for either.

Ideally, you will be shooting a Tactical 20 while your 20BR is cooling off in a prairie dog town, you'll carry a 22-250 for coyotes, and keep a 6X47 Lapua for those really long shots.

However, to have only one rifle handle everything smaller than pronghorn, the .223 is the only real choice.

Welcome to the world of compromise!

 

[jhansman]

Does Savage make a rifle with a detachable magazine? The blind mag is something I would hope to avoid.

I was not too keen on the blind mag on my 12VLP, but as it turned out, once I found the optimal OAL for my gun (1.250"), reloads would not load or feed from it anyway, so now it's a single shot. Works for me.