Help responding to my 9 year old's teacher...

[JWarren]

Teacher here...


But probably a minority when considering the entire profession...

My school is filled with hunters and gunowners-- both the students and the teachers. My principal's office looks like a taxidermist.

If this were me, I'd want to hear the particulars of the issue from a living person-- not a note. I'd want to see the drawing with my own eyes.

If it is-- as you say-- a picture of your wife and her firearm, it is time to challenge the mentality, and equally as important, the "Zero-Tolerance" rules around such nonesense.

I've had kids draw pictures of firearms this school year. Usually, they come and show them to me and I give them some kind of comment and move on.

There ARE situations where I WOULD take administrative action for firearm related drawings, however.

For instance....

If I see a drawing of a stick-figure pointing a gun at another stick figure, and the other one has "Mr. Warren" written over its head, I may have to deal with that.

I guess the point that I am trying to make is that you need to determine the nature of the issue and the source of the administrative action.

I've seen too many parents too willing to believe "Not my baby" when the child does something inappropriate at school. As it turns out, NO ONE'S kid has EVER done anything idiotic at school. Imagine that.

If you go in "armed for bear" and then discover something WAS inappropriate, you may find yourself with nothing to say, or worse ... find yourself actually trying to defend something idiotic.

If, however, it is exactly as you have presented the issue to us, you need to be ready to challenge the reasoning and the zero-tolerance idiocy that is used as a "catch-all" trump card to squash common sense and any objections to the policy.

Be ready to take the issue to the next school board meeting. It is likely that, on the school level, your arguements will get dismissed with the mantra of school policy or zero tolerance.


Hang in there. I hope that you can make a win for common sense for us all.


-- John

 

[danprkr]

TAB is right

Get all the information you can to know what you're walking into. Go in level headed, and know exactly how far you going to take it. That means planning for everything from the initial handshake to and including the court battle.

Then emotionally controlled and focused work your plan. Don't be afraid to be not nice. But don't turn hysterical on them. The instant you do they've won. I've found stating my most passionate points in a near whisper causes people to listen more intently, and they certainly can't accuse of attacking them with a whisper.

And I'd use the media if I wasn't worried about theire bias. Great tool to whip common sense into public servants, but only if the media isn't biased in you area also.

And, remember they work for you! They won't want you to realize that, and they certainly don't want to acknowledge it, but it is true.

Either way good luck.

 

[kanook]

Have you child draw another picture of mom without a firearm in her hand. Ask the teacher if this is better. If the teacher says "yes it is", ask "why, just because in this picture she is carrying concealed? " (just kidding) I am qualified to teach pre-K and K. With all the rules and PC in the world I would lose my job so fast because I still believe that the parent still has control of the children, NOT the government. I still thinks its odd that we will teach the children how to breed but if we teach them how to put food on the table it's wrong.

 

[feedthehogs]

your child's teacher is ignorant

And that ignorance is being taught to the future leaders of America.

While there are some pockets of sanity in the education system, the over whelming majority have a zero tolerance for anything gun related. Once on a kids record, it follows them.

There is a real easy way around this. Home school.

A wife is usualy another source of income to buy the junk the world seems to think is worth sacrificing their kids future for.

Anything worthwhile take sacrifice. Something that nobody seems to want to do anymore to preserve the values that were taught them.

The early years of a child are the most important. When they are sent to day care or school for more hours than their parents spend with them who do you think they are going to emulate?

 

[Crash_Test_Dhimmi]

"Do you censor the artwork of all students? or only those students who you do not agree with? Why are you violating my sons civil liberties and censoring his artwork? Because he drew a firearm? Have you even read the constitution?"

When you go in for the "conference" wear a wire. many people who OC wear wires for just this reason. To record an incident and violation of any rights for posterity. They will stick their foot in their mouth on this initial visit, and deny it later.

 

[shaggy430]

I am all for showing this teacher what's what, but just remember that the person who may feel any retaliation from his teacher is the child. Proceed with tact.

Similar thing happened to me when I was a child. My parents made their point a little too hard and my whole school year was hell from the teacher.

 

[runrabbitrun]

I home school too.
In his sophomore year, my son was
locked in a room as an assistant principle began some
illegal interrogation about an incident where my son had already been cleared
by the band director, a week or so before.

Apparently this guy thought it was OK to lock a child in a room,
slam books around, yell at him and attempt to intimidate him into
'giving up' names of people this principal 'suspected' were involved in
illegal activities at some after school function.
I didn't even know this incident occurred until about a month later.
My son was scared to tell me because this guy told him to NOT tell a sole
about this (interrogation) or there would be 'hell to pay'.

The only way I found out was my son began to play sick a lot after that.
He didn't want to go to school.
Once I finally got it out of him what had happened,
I initiated a letter to the school.
My response by other school officials was pretty much them playing CYA for the
assistant principle and themselves.

I advised my son at an early age that in any situation like this,
he had a RIGHT to remain silent and that is what he did.
My son made one statement to this school official and that was.
I want to talk to my father and I will NOT talk to you.
That is what pissed the assistant principle off and had him acting like some Nazi.

The school system is a joke and it has been this way for decades and getting worse NOT better.
I don't blame teachers as there are still some really good teachers.
It's these over zealous admin. types who need to be stripped of their positions and
put BACK in line. Until that happens the government schools will continue to be
noting more than a money maker for administrators,
politicians and union officials.

 

[kilo729]

I have two, 7 and 11, and thier beliefs are my beliefs on matters that allow no compromise. Principles are not subject to change by children under my leadership. When they are adult leaders, their path is theirs to choose. I plan on spending all energy needed to ensure that path is the correct one. Truth is absolute. Law is law. Rights are rights. They are mine for now. Do you allow your children to develope whatever beliefs they choose? Is that self-actualization something you indoctrinate into them? Do you not see how ironic that notion is? All parents influence the thoughts and direction of their children. Some on principle, some on self. It is still behavior and thought control, regardless how enlightened you think you are being.

Shoving your beliefs down your children's throat is different from influencing their beliefs. By forcing your beliefs on them you are no better than the "ridiculous human beings ... idiots ... ridiculous excuse for a teacher, a blind follower of a dangerous, mal intentioned movement, a simpleton lacking any of the common sense"

Something tells me you don't know what self-actualization is, because it's a GOOD thing.

Where did I say I was trying to be enlightened?

Kilo729, I wish you receive the help you need! Good luck!

Nice personal attack while providing nothing of value to this thread.

And that ignorance is being taught to the future leaders of America.

One cannot teach ignorance...



Overall, Wedge gave the best advice one can give in post #5.
Don't pull your kid out of public school because they're ignorant and looking to cover their ass. If you disagree with what they teach then provide the other side(s) of the argument.

Edit: Recording conversations isn't entirely legal... http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

 

[DHJenkins]

Take the teacher a photo of your wife holding a gun, then ask her why it's inappropriate.

 

[MisterMike]

o Stay calm, "reasonable" in tone, non-threatening, but firm in all your dealings with the school.

o Get the facts: Ask the teacher exactly what happened, why and how. Ask specifically what part of the honor code was violated. Find out what the reflection thing is, what the teacher told your child to believe.

o Think about it. Take time to formulate a response. Take a day.

o Respond with reasoned firmness: If this is an honest and truthful representation of his mother (as a soldier, as a hobby shooter, as a home defender, etc.) assert his honesty. If there's nothing specific in the honor code about guns, assert that there's no violation. If the school or teacher is gun-intolerant, but there's no specific regulation he violated, then firmly point out that there's no violation of written policy, that different families have different attitudes, and that tolerance of such is fundamental to the American way of life. Etc.

o If appropriate, have your child present so he can see you going to bat for him, and can see an example of how to calmly assert one's rights.

This is good advice. The thing I would emphasize, though, is the importance of getting all the facts. Was this a case of a teacher going overboard, enforcing a PC anti-gun policy, or was the kid doodling when he was not supposed to?

I'd be firm in arguing the kid's case, but one thing I'd be mindful of is the fact that teachers sometimes punish chidren whose parents are too vocal--what would be an "A" paper becomes a "B," a chuckle that would normally be addressed with a "Now, Johnnie" becomes a documented infraction, and so on. The bottom line is, yes, you must address this, but you must also be on your toes as time progresses to ensure your kid isn't getting jerked around.

One thing I'd also advocate, if you find a truly anti-gun agenda on the part of the teacher or the school board, is offering to come in and talk to the kids about guns and gun safety. They might just take you up on it, and you could serve as a positive influence by showing the faculty and the wee kiddies that gun owners are responsible, thoughtful people, and not a bunch of homicidal maniacs.

 

[eye5600]

When I went to High school the opening day of deer season was a holy day.

My sister claimed that in her class, it was a badge of honor among the hunters to get to school on time on the first day of deer season AFTER having gotten their deer. I was not aware of any hunters in my class, but I'm a nerd and my sister is not.

 

[richyoung]

Finally, and I REALLY hate to say this, but at school firearms should be comepletely secret. Always.

To illustrate HOW wrong this is, try this version on for size: "At school, keep the fact that you are a Jew secret. Always." You don't keep rights by being secret about them.

 

[shaggy430]

One cannot teach ignorance...

I disagree...

 

[neverjeg]

I have two kids. One (the easy one) graduates HS this year - nothing to tell with her. My son however is a different story. I think he started butting heads about the second grade. Now, don't get this wrong, he is a great kid, warm hearted, generous, and would not hurt anyone. He just has his own drummer. Square peg/round hole theory.

I stood behind him every time, usually weekly, and went toe to toe with teachers, principles, and the administration. They all knew me well. I was always respectful and polite and prepared. Got caught off guard one time and THAT never happened again. :banghead: (I mistakenly thought I was going to speak with an adult.)

It took a lot of years and standing ground, but slowly progress was made. I'm raising my kids, not the school system. I decided if the infraction warranted detention and refused them many times. Once, a teacher even said, "Well you can stay in his place if you want!" Okay, I headed to the principal’s office to make arrangements. Well, that didn't happen and my son didn’t stay either.

My point is. Stand up for your son and your beliefs. He will respect you for it, the teachers will respect you for it, and they will think twice before pushing their little power.

If your son learns to stand up for himself now (through you) he will as an adult. The country will be better for it.

 

[blkbrd666]

I would certainly make sure my son got an apology from the teacher after I "conferenced" her and she finished her "reflection form". I would also get her assurance that this pushing of her personal views on my son would never happen again. You can do this in a polite manner, but I would see to it the teacher went through the same process that was forced on my son.

 

[Deanimator]

Similar thing happened to me when I was a child. My parents made their point a little too hard and my whole school year was hell from the teacher.

That leaves WITNESSES and EVIDENCE. Now you're getting into the big time of actionable behavior. At that point, the teacher could actually be FIRED for cause.

When I was in Catholic school in the '60s, one of the nuns told my mother and grandmother to make me stop reading at home because I was "getting too far ahead of the other children". After about ten minutes of a one sided "conversation" that would have left R. Lee Ermey a broken man, standing in a pool of his own urine, Sister Buchenwald got the message. There was no more talk of stopping me from reading and no retaliation.

 

[FordPre]

I would believe that this is an indication of the "zero tolerance" policies that many schools have implemented since Columbine. Unfortunately, zero tolerance takes common sense out of the picture and does not give the teacher much lee-way in what they can/cannot do.

It seems that I have read somewhere that certain schools have realized that the issues with their zero tolerance program (such as the kids getting kicked out of school for having aspirin, having a forgotten knife in their car, etc) and understand that they perhaps went a bit overboard. Unfortunately these programs were crafted and adopted by the school board to allay the fears of parents. From my reading the school board seems to be in a catch-22, they understand that zero-tolerance does not work well, but are hamstrung by parents who think they do work.

My official 2 cents, which is probably worth less.

 

[Owen Sparks]

If you can afford it you should take your son out of the government school system in favor of a private education. Come to think of it, if you didn't have to pay all the taxes that support the government schools you probably could afford a quality private education for your son.

 

[kilo729]

@Shaggy

n.

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

It's hard to teach a lack of education.

 

[mugsie]

I can't help myself!

I've been reading through the threads here about how to pussy foot around the problem, how to talk nice to the teacher, hot to this and how to that. IT'S ALL BS PEOPLE! Stop playing nice. The left doesn't play nice do they? they tell you what to think, they tell you how to act, they tell your kids what is an appropiate drawing. Unless we stand up now, and in no uncertain terms let them know how we feel, it's only going to get worse. Stop voting the slime into office. You want to do someting positive, then begin a letter writing campaigne to your elected representatives. Let them know how you feel. If they fail to respond positively, then muster up everyone you can and get them voted out of office. It's our country people. Ours. I fought for this country once, I'll do it again. I will not let a bleeding heart left wing liberial tell me what I can and cannot do because it offends some poor soul somewhere. For instance - my wife was a teacher for 20 years. One kid in the class was a Jehova's witness - because of this the school told the 30 other kids in class they were not to celebrate Christmas or Easter or any other holidays because it would offend the one kid. They couldn't even celebrate birthdays! Did they make the one kid leave? No. They punished the other 30! This is what it's coming to. My wife retired because of this mentality and let them know why.

So - stand up to the teacher, the school board and anyone else who complains that a picture, a damn picture people, a simple picture, of a kid's mother and her gun, is not appropiate. WAKE UP PEOPLE before it's too late! :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[offthepaper]

You know, it's a shame that Mom isn't an LEO. Imagine her marching into the school office in full uniform with an issued Glock on her side. I'd love to see the school "officials" explain to her or any of the students about how the drawing of his mother (the LEO) protecting society is a "bad" thing.

Just more BS from the public indoctrination system.

 

[neverjeg]

+1 mugsie

Stand behind your kids always and in front of them when necessary!

 

[offthepaper]

Help responding to my 9 year old's teacher...

Or you could just send them this.....

Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton , Colorado , was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of=2 the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.



Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed..
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!


" Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up , we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational
systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politic ians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your
own heart before casting the first stone!

My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

 

[mbt2001]

How is drawing during lunch an issue? If it isn't an issue, then his free speech rights apply, which means that can't hardly tell him he can't draw a picture of a women with a gun.

Either drawing during lunch is a problem or it isn't, the subject matter is hardly the point.

 

[bonza]

We live in a notoriously left-wing part of the country and, despite hearing of similar instances I've never run into it with my kids. I shoot competitively & will often bring back T-shirts from the events back as gifts for my kids, never once has there been any comment (negative or positive) from the school. All the schools around here have the 'Gun Free Zone' notices posted.