I'd like to ask for a ceasefire on the cop/anti-cop stuff.

[Warren]

This is getting to be too much.

We are here 'cause we like guns and the shooting sports.

Do we have to be constantly beating up on each other?


I joined this board because it was the best gun forum I had seen, and I lurked at a lot.

I know there are legitmate complaints to be made against certain aspects of policing and I also know that sometimes some complaints are without merit. These "discussions" though are so nasty that no one is going to learn anything from them.


So how about everyone back down, take a deep breath and talk about guns and the shooting sports?

 

[gunsmith]

No you're wrong!

Just kidding!

I think it's a good idea.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Good plan.

 

[Pilgrim]

Another option is create a separate folder, like Roundtable, where these discussions on officer involved shootings can be hashed out. All the moderator would need to do is throw in some raw meat from time to time and declare temporary truces to drag out the wounded.

Pilgrim

 

[AZRickD]

I think it fair game to post an account (true or fictitious) of police violating rights and have the LEOs comment on the story.

More often than not, the thin blue line will circle the wagons and we peons get a chance to learn something:

You can trust 9 out of 10 cops, but that 10th one will burn you into a state of massive regret for "having nothing to hide."

Rick

 

[goalie]

You know what, I usually stay out of this stuff, but this latest roud of hubabluh kind of has me nervous. You see, recently I had an incident with an attempted carjacking in Minneapolis. I work nights as an RN at an inner city hospital, and after the incident I called 911 (as did another lady who witnessed the guy running up to my car with a gun) and was treated with little to no respect by one of the officers. I was told that QUOTE: "civilians shouldn't even be allowed to own handguns" (I have a carry permit) and I was loudly and confrontationally questioned during our initial meeting in the presence of many of my co-workers and patients on a cardiac ICU unit.

Here's my point: I actually used to be a POST board certified instructor in Minnesota when I got out of the Marines and was going to school. I have historically been rabidly pro LEO, as, through my own time in the ED as an RN, I know just how dealing with scum can jade you and make certain comments seem to be more than they are.

That said, stuff like what just went on in WI, consent or not, is pretty scarey to me. I can only imagine what would be the result when I refuse entry to my home in a similar situation, yet, considering the posts of certain self-described LEOs on the BB, denying entry without a warrant and immediately calling my lawer is pretty much the only option I have if I want to retain my rights. Anyhow, I am going to hit the hay after a looooooong shift, but I hope everyone takes a step back and honestly looks at what they are saying. I understand the desire to defend people in your profession, but the mission of law enforcement officers is to protect and serve. Getting pissed off at me and taking my guns, guns that are not even remotely similar to the one used in the original crime BTW, just because I don't want you going through my home without a warrant, well, that would be neither protecting nor serving.

Good day.

 

[Warren]

A new folder sounds good.

Continuing with the theme it could be called The Melee.

Like the RT only people with a certain number of posts could see the listing and post in it.

And if the threads created therein could not show up in the View New Posts search that would make it unlikly that the unsuspecting could wander into one of those discussions by mistake. To get to one someone would have to work at it in other words.

 

[AZRickD]

Okay, okay.

You can trust seven out of ten cops. But the last three...

Hooo boy.

Rick

 

[Warren]

Goalie

I know people have strong feelings about it but it seems that it is becoming the main focus of the board.

 

[Justin Moore]

Goalie, first off, thanks for your service to your country. I can only imagine at how surprised you were to being treated like that. Especially as a Marine.

civilians

Who was it exactly that showed up, the military? Its getting increasingly hard to tell these days.

 

[goalie]

Justin,

He was just a weenie. A nurse I work with's husband is a homicide detective in Minneapolis. He says the guy is a total meathead and was probably trying to be tough since I was a male nurse. Whatever, people who make judgements based on appearance (scrubs and cloggz) can be wrong quite often (Ex Jar-head, 0352 MOS BEFORE being an RN).

 

[WonderNine]

It's funny how they like to twist that around. If you were on active reserve the cop would be the civilian. I thought departments weed out mental disorders like Napoleon Complex during the hiring process.

I can imagine a vein in his forehead would've popped had you said that.

 

[Justin Moore]

Whatever, people who make judgements based on appearance (scrubs and cloggz) can be wrong quite often

Obviously I bet you could outshoot his ass any day too!

You should have said 'drop and give me TWENTY, BOOT!'

I reckon that wouldn't have gone over too well thou Nice Kodak moment thou.

 

[Justin Moore]

I thought departments weed out mental disorders like Napoleon Complex during the hiring process.

One would think to think so eh?

A gal I knew wanted to be a cop here. I asked her why, to which she replied 'I'm tired of men ******* me over". The obvious power trip thing.

She failed the psych test. However, its my understand that in MY state, if she manages to get hired by a department (you can get hired here before completing the academy for some insane reason), the academy HAS to take her. What a pleasant thought.

 

[Warren]

arrrghhh :banghead:

 

[Mixlesplick]

More often than not, the thin blue line will circle the wagons and we peons get a chance to learn something:

This is exactly why I read these posts. I find some of the LEO attitudes very enlightening.

 

[1911Tuner]

Cops

I've had very few problems with cops, and make no bones about supporting and understanding what they endure. Most of'em are
decent guys just workin' the job...Just like any other profession, the
occasional walking Richard Cranium shows up though...

My brother-in-law is a WSPD Lieutenant...His soon to be son-in-law has
recently joined the ranks, and he came with the full attitude of a very
cocky 21 year-old who has just been turned loose with a badge and a gun.

He's learnin', though...

He finally consented to go shoot with us not long ago. I guess he thought it was a test of his skills, and "warned" us enroute of his high qualification
scores with his sidearm.

The lad shot very well indeed. We were all suitably impressed, and his
"cocky Factor" was high...until we shot the timed drills on the steel, and ran
the plate machines from the leather. He was in shock at the speed of
a couple of the old farts who he had just outshot on paper as they traversed multiple targets while effecting speed reloads on the run. None of us were anywhere close to Grand Master Class, by the way. If Larry Brown had been on the scene that day, the young lion would have had a stroke.

(Larry shoots with, and is one of Brian Enos' close friends)

"Where did you learn to do that??? Civilians shouldn't know how to do that!!! This should be illegal!!! We had one 65 year-old man who we
squared him off with on a timed duel...who was able to hammer two ringers
before the boy could clear the leather and get off his first shot. He came
away with new perspective, and he'll do well. Much of the problem lies
in the indoctrination and early "By the Book" stuff that they are deluged with. When they figure out that their real education comes later, it
usually makes a huge difference.

My point is that...most of the "Nightmare Cops" that you'll have a problem
with are either rookies or P1s...As they learn and grow, they generally
tone it down a bit, and by their third year on the street, either become
solid police officers, or they find another career. Veteran cops rarely
give you a problem unless you really work hard at earning it.

Treat'em like people. Offer the same respect that you would for any
decent human being. Show a sense of humor, and appeal to theirs,
and chances are slim that you'll have a problem at all. Show an attitude
from the git-go, and you've lost any hope of putting him at ease. He's
seen attitudes turn ugly at a hat-drop, and he doesn't want to get hurt any more than you do.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Jeff Timm]

Unfortunately, the police now have the power to utterly destory your life, they can do it casually, without fear of retribution.

Geoff
Who knows power corrupts.

 

[kuroineko]

So much for the "High Road."

A guy can't even start a simple "let's cool it" thread without some of the most rabid anti LEO's chiming in. :banghead:

 

[NukemJim]

I know there are legitmate complaints to be made against certain aspects of policing and I also know that sometimes some complaints are without merit. These "discussions" though are so nasty that no one is going to learn anything from them.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Unfortunately, the police now have the power to utterly destory your life, they can do it casually, without fear of retribution.

Also agree wholeheatedly. And they can do it accidentally, without meaning to, not wanting to, with the best of intentions all the while doing their job "by the book" and legally. Saying the person will be found not guilty in the court system is no longer an answer given todays society. Witness the case of Richard Jewel, The Olympic Park NonBomber. Here in Illlinois we have had 12 or 13 people on death row found innocent. Not "Not guily" innocent. We have had a person convicted of murder WHO WAS IN JAIL when the murder took place ( No, it was not murder by hire or anything like that )

Many fear the police arestting them in error as much as the police fear being assaulted/killed by Non-LEO.

Both sides are afraid of the other.

I would like to see RATIONAL discourse on incidents like these but like Here2Learn says most of these threads degenerate into uselessness.

C'mon people lets take THE HIGH ROAD

NukemJim

 

[CEShooter]

I seem to remember a lot of gun owners justifiably upset because all the bad gun news makes the headlines and the good gun news never sees the light of day. Boy I sure am glad a couple of people don't give the LEO community a bad name like the media gives guns a bad name with only reporting 99% of the bad and 1% of the good. How some of us can scream about being judged by a few of our poorest examples but have no qualms about returnging the favor to others. :banghead: :banghead:

 

[spartacus2002]

I agree that we need to get off the LEO v. Citizen horse. Let's all step back, myself included, and maintain the high road.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Well...

Up there, in the header, it says "Legal and Political." Seems to fit.

Now bashing isn't constructive, I'm not saying it is. Talk is cheap as ever, more so when there are few limits as there are on the net.

It seems to me there are some real and growing problems out there, and the vituperation that shows up here is only a reflection of that. It would be wise to ask why that is, and seek some solutions to the real issues, rather than griping about the verbal symptoms. After all, it is only the tolerance, acceptance and cooperation of the public at large that makes it possible for LEOs to do their jobs. Who needs who, after all?

lpl/nc

 

[c_yeager]

You know, if the cop related threads bother you it's not hard to simply NOT read them. There are plenty of threads that i never open. but, telling people that they have to stop talking because you don't like what you hear when you listen is seems little unreasonable.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I'm pretty much in favor of realistic assessment of a given situation. As many members have pointed out, most cops are solid, honorable folks doing a tough job for the right reasons.

But some are not.

There will be transgressions, and there will be things that need to be said about them, and blanketly prohibiting reasoned discussion does not serve us.

As a free society, we cannot afford to elevate the police to a holy, untouchable status. We cannot afford to ignore it when things start getting a little dark around the edges, lest we be taken by surprise when the lights go out.

The simple ugly truth is that any nightmare scenario of the state getting out of hand will involve the use of the instrument of state power, the police, and thus the border of the issue, where the rubber meets the road, bears scrutiny.

Having legitimate cause to fear the police is a dark portent, and we need to come to understanding of the roots and extent of the problem.