I'm Coming Around on Open Carry.

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Most of us do, yes. Mine has a thumb break strap. I have a holster that rides high on my belt, so if I feel overly cautious such as being in close quarters in a crowd, I can just tighten my elbow against my body and it pins the gun tightly into my side.

I am very happy that you have an open mind, TXHorns.
 
I keep looking into CC courses out here because I'm afraid with all the different regulations for different counties and such it would be easier to just have a CC permit to CYA.
 
Um, maybe they'll attack because they WANT the gun and/or whatever else they have? I'm sure no armed security guards have ever been attacked while handling/transporting bags of money or servicing an ATM, right?

Exactly, open carry causes the criminal to go for all or nothing. I work as an armored car guard, the last 2 guys who were killed in this line of work recently, one in Miami FL the other Newark NJ. They were both robbed. There was no stickup, there was no struggle. No "drop the bag or I'll shoot!" The criminal did not give them a chance in hell. They simply opened fire and killed the guard immediately. The guy in Newark NJ was shot in the back of the head. Open carry IMO is just a liability. I would only open carry either in my line of work, or out in the woods, or on my own land if I had some, etc. Of course I think it should be legal. But I would certainly rather CC in public.
 
bryskee said:
I keep looking into CC courses out here because I'm afraid with all the different regulations for different counties and such it would be easier to just have a CC permit to CYA.

Ummmm..... Colorado has state preemption over all local statutes except for Denver.
 
THE DARK NIGHT said:
Exactly, open carry causes the criminal to go for all or nothing. I work as an armored car guard, the last 2 guys who were killed in this line of work recently, one in Miami FL the other Newark NJ. They were both robbed. There was no stickup, there was no struggle. No "drop the bag or I'll shoot!" The criminal did not give them a chance in hell. They simply opened fire and killed the guard immediately. The guy in Newark NJ was shot in the back of the head. Open carry IMO is just a liability. I would only open carry either in my line of work, or out in the woods, or on my own land if I had some, etc. Of course I think it should be legal. But I would certainly rather CC in public.

And that applies to the average citizen open carrying how? I don't have bags of money in both my hands and a gun on my belt. Again, you are talking about people being shot because of their PROFESSION and not because of their guns. In the incidents that you speak about above, do you really think that no gun visible would have prevented their being shot?
 
Less the smart ass comments, could you enlighten me? I'm here to learn and have been reading up on open carry vrs. CC. I'd appreciate information more than sarcasm! So I can open carry anywhere I want in the state other than those specific places listed such as state buildings etc? Can you provide a reliable link or information to help me out since I'm interested in OC.

Also, if one shoots a guard dead, I'd think CC or OC, either way they're toast because the thugs wanted the money. OC Is an obvious deterrent and anyone who says it's not is a fool. Crooks, including meth heads, are not that brazen as a majority. That behavior is an exception to the rule if they go for an armed person.
 
Thank ya sir!

I keep seeing this phrase in there "private means of conveyance". Sounds almost the same as concealed to me. Another of my concerns is not being able to carry on campus, or can I because it is technically "property under my control" right. This wording all seems vague in a good way.
 
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Private means of conveyance means your vehicle.

School grounds belongs to the school. They can remove you from their property if they so desire. It is not property under your control.

handgunlaw.us probably has a good summary of where you cannot carry.

opencarry.org also has Colorado section in their forums and you will find some information summarized in their maps section.
 
And that applies to the average citizen open carrying how? I don't have bags of money in both my hands and a gun on my belt. Again, you are talking about people being shot because of their PROFESSION and not because of their guns. In the incidents that you speak about above, do you really think that no gun visible would have prevented their being shot?

Do you think they might kill you outright for $500? Because that's what you're carrying on your hip out in the open.
 
Also, if one shoots a guard dead, I'd think CC or OC, either way they're toast because the thugs wanted the money.

Very true that the money is the attraction. I'm not sure that if the crook could get the money from a man without a gun he would necessarily shoot, but who knows?

OC Is an obvious deterrent and anyone who says it's not is a fool.

Depends on the circumstance. No one in his right mind would approach an openly armed citizen in the open for the purpose of attacking him, or come up to him from the front. Yes, OC will deter, in such instances.

But tell me, how would OC "deter" a couple or three ruffians moving about among others closely behind and around the man with the gun? Seems to me that if they want his gun, outnumber him, have the element of surprise, and are already in contact proximity, they have the complete upper hand and he is completely vulnerable, and there's no deterrent value--just the attraction of valuable property. Perhaps you can explain the error of my reasoning.

Also seems to me that if there were a sufficient deterrent value, off-duty LEOs might be more likely to carry openly. Many if not most departments forbid it. Police officers tell me that they believe that the gun would make them vulnerable to someone who wanted it.

Crooks, including meth heads, are not that brazen as a majority.

Law enforcement officers, corrections officers, and parole officers who deal with meth users tell me that in general, they are completely fearless, extremely aggressive, incapable of being reasoned with, and very, very mean. Of course, they are also usually very, very desperate.

If you have something they want badly (meth would be first on the list, money would qualify, and I think a gun would too) or are perceived as a threat to their escape, you are very likely going to have to use deadly force.

There are exceptions to every generality. A police SWAT team lead I know was once able to induce a meth head to surrender by illuminating his chest with gun-mounted laser. But that doesn't mean he wasn't rather "brazen." They are usually so "brazen" around here that patrol officers do not try to apprehend them once they are identified--they dispatch heavily armed SWAT teams.

I wouldn't rely on a gun in a holster to deter them, though it would probably determine the direction from which they attack.
 
Consider the same situation if you're open carrying and have to "hit the deck".
I would submit to you that if you are OCing, you should completely predetermine to draw, not cower. ~

It may tactically be the best thing to first toss the BG your wallet and then draw, or some such. Ultimately I would submit a requirement for OCing is a predetermined refusal to be a victim.

Just a thought.
 
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My CHL instructor once explained to our class that a gun on your hip is of no use if a criminal sees it and pops you before you even know whats going on.

I always laugh when I hear this. Sounds like a person trying to preserve their customer base.

I have always thought that open carry should be legal everywhere. You don't have to do it if you don't want to.
 
While i support OC i dont see it making too much headway in ohio,yet.
I feel the MAG calls would happen in most area's even small towns.

Ive not been around the whole OC/CCW scene for long so my opnions really havent formed enough to make many comments.
I do know i wouldnt feel comfy OC'ing unless i was in the woods or such.
There has been alot of News coverage of the people OC'ing around presidential happenings.And even tho i think thats one of the few wrong places to do so,it does bring the subject to light to the general public.Wich i do feel is good for them to see a "gun" doesnt mean death is near.
I do CCW and it would be nice to OC at times and it would be alot easier if they fixed laws concerning the transportation of loaded firearms by a citizen.
 
The only problem with your proposals, Kleanbore, is that those situations the you propose simply do not happen in real life. There are certainly no reports more than once every two or three years that anyone can dig up of it happening.

DasFriek,
What's wrong with MWAG calls? They tend to be educational experiences for the public, and, quite often, the police. It is because of MWAG calls that many police departments have been educated on the legality of open carry.
 
I'm going to side with Kleanbore here. I don't know at all that someone who is stupid, crazy, or desperate enough to commit a violent crime against a total stranger subscribes to common sense at all. If they weren't crazy, desperate, or stupid, they probably wouldn't be looking at a stranger, armed or otherwise, teying to figure out how to attack him. If common sense applied, they probably wouldn't be criminals. I'm not going to assume that showing a gun would deter them. Otherwise, no one would ever attack an armed cop, but it happens all the time.

Just because open carry is legal, and you have a desire to do it, doesn't mean there never exists a situation where you just shouldn't do it anyway.
 
For the longest time, I just didn't think it was a good idea. I just thought that concealed carry was prefereable. The "Element of Surprise" thing. It was kind of a moot point anyway. Here in Texas we aren't allowed open carry.

I've been reading some things lately though. It seems that open carry is getting so common in so many parts of the country that folks are getting used to seeing people wearing guns and not going into a screaming panic.


The normalization of firearms. Or maybe it should be called the re-normalization of firearms.

How could that possibly be bad?

Is anyone aware of a group or organization here in Texas (or nationally) that I can support in order to further the cause of open carry?

If I had the opportunity I just might try it myself.


I have to say I agree with you.

I've actually been semi-against open carry for a while, but I've considered it more and more and read more about it and I really am interested in Texas having the right to open carry.

I simply want the option to open carry if I want to and conceal carry if I want to.

I agree that we Texans need to push for Open Carry more. I had voiced my opinion against it in the past, but I've really done an about face on the subject in recent months.


Open Carry for Texans!
 
I'm not going to assume that showing a gun would deter them. Otherwise, no one would ever attack an armed cop, but it happens all the time.

All the time? Really. How many cops are shot each year? Do you even know? How about if we look at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. Their statistic is a high of 68 in 2007 and a low of 39 in 2008. That's all the time? In a few years, more cops died in auto accidents than are shot, so does that mean that we shouldn't drive? Give me a break!

Cops are shot because of their PROFESSION, not because of their guns. Cops are shot by criminals as a means of escape and not because of their guns, because the cop has the ability to send a felon to prison. The same is true of the armored car guards theory posed earlier. They are shot because of their PROFESSION and for the chance that the armored car may actually have a large sum of money in it. I'm sorry, your argument just is not supported by facts. You all keep SAYING it happens, yet you fail to prove it happens.

http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm
 
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Posted by NavyLT:
All the time? Really. How many cops are shot each year? Do you even know? How about if we look at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. Their statistic is a high of 68 in 2007 and a low of 39 in 2008. That's all the time? In a few years, more cops died in auto accidents than are shot, so does that mean that we shouldn't drive? Give me a break!

Cops are shot because of their PROFESSION, not because of their guns. Cops are shot by criminals as a means of escape and not because of their guns, because the cop has the ability to send a felon to prison. The same is true of the armored car guards theory posed earlier. They are shot because of their PROFESSION and for the chance that the armored car may actually have a large sum of money in it. I'm sorry, your argument just is not supported by facts. You all keep SAYING it happens, yet you fail to prove it happens.

http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm

I would point out that the quote from mljdeckard in your post said attacked and the statistics you posted were deaths.

People do attack armed police officers more often than you think. Heck, just flip on the TV and see how many people get into a slap fight with cops over a speeding ticket and end up tasered.

I'm not siding with either of you FYI, I'm simply saying that if you're going to use statistics, you need to apply them properly. And saying that X number of death occur does not counter his argument that armed police are attacked often. Not all attacks end in fatalities.
 
You've all pointed out great points but at the end of the day its personal preference. You should always be cautious of everything around you especially ppl especially when youre OCin. My solution for OC is...carry a knife. Bingo, if a guy is close enough to touch your firearm then youre close enough to stab him. In the end you should always have a back up plan and if you dont you better come up w/ one relatively quickly or youre dead. OC Vs. CC Solution? A knife and preferably another back up gun.
 
Boba Fett said:
I would point out that the quote from mljdeckard in your post said attacked and the statistics you posted were deaths.

People do attack armed police officers more often than you think. Heck, just flip on the TV and see how many people get into a slap fight with cops over a speeding ticket and end up tasered.

I'm not siding with either of you FYI, I'm simply saying that if you're going to use statistics, you need to apply them properly. And saying that X number of death occur does not counter his argument that armed police are attacked often. Not all attacks end in fatalities.

I understand you are not taking sides, but let me also point out that they are not attacked because they are carrying guns, they are attacked because THEY ARE COPS! AND if it was not known that all cops carry guns, how many more would be attacked? Cops do not carry guns to shoot them, they carry guns to DETER attacks against them and it is well known that almost all cops are armed.
 
I understand you are not taking sides, but let me also point out that they are not attacked because they are carrying guns, they are attacked because THEY ARE COPS! AND if it was not known that all cops carry guns, how many more would be attacked? Cops do not carry guns to shoot them, they carry guns to DETER attacks against them and it is well known that almost all cops are armed.

I agree with that. The guns are to deter attacks among other things. I wish it would deter more people :-/
 
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