I'm Coming Around on Open Carry.

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They may be attacked because they are cops, but the fact that they are armed doesn't stop the attackers.

And find me a single cop who has worked a full career without getting assaulted by a drunk, a crazy, a white trash or someone else while they were open carrying. They will say it's just part of the job.
 
I wish ppl weren't ignorant enough to make a grab for a loaded firearm. Grabbing my firearm is like grabbing my wife, you just dont do it unless you want serious pain. In the end OC is good for all us shooters from a political standpoint. You dont wrestle guys for your firearm everyday but you do battle politicians everyday. Regardless OC is good for american. After all it is a national built on freedom and firearms.
 
mljdeckard said:
They may be attacked because they are cops, but the fact that they are armed doesn't stop the attackers.

And find me a single cop who has worked a full career without getting assaulted by a drunk, a crazy, a white trash or someone else while they were open carrying. They will say it's just part of the job.
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Because theyre only to be used as a last resort. Ppl aren't deterred because they know cops are hesitant to draw. Also because you see cops with guns everyday. And because Glocks just aren't very scary, no offence to Glock. A fine gun.
 
Forgot where I read this but one of the rag writers was saying that open carry sets you up for criminal or civil action from someone that doesn't like you. All they have to do is get in your presence where there are no witnesses and then claim that you threatened them with the gun. Since you open carry a gun half of their story is supported.

Not sure I buy into it, but it is something to think about. Moving to VA in 3 weeks and haven't decided if I will open carry or not. They do have some interesting laws about carry in VA, for instance; no CC in an establishment that sells alcohol, but open carry is OK.
 
Forgot where I read this but one of the rag writers was saying that open carry sets you up for criminal or civil action from someone that doesn't like you. All they have to do is get in your presence where there are no witnesses and then claim that you threatened them with the gun. Since you open carry a gun half of their story is supported.
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I've read that too--idea is that they can describe the gun. I think it was Ayoob.

An unsubstantiated accusation is a long way from establishing guilt. I started to say that I cannot imagine anyone making such a charge, and then I realized that a casual touch to the grip, coinciding with an unconscious glance, might worry someone, and then I started thinking about some of my neighbors.

Those who ask whether there's a good 1911 for under a certain dollar amount may wish to ponder that said amount probably won't go very far in countering even a completely spurious charge.

That would be the last of my reasons for not carrying openly. The strongest reason for me is the same reason I don't leave a lap-top unguarded in a crowded place, or have large TV where it can be seen from a busy intersection, or have rifle rack in view of the street. If you advertise that you have something valuable that is there for the taking, you can expect to lose it, and if you happen to be wearing it you're likely to get hurt.

But that's me. There are a lot of places in the country in which the convenience of carrying, say, a larger gun outside of one's shirt may outweigh the potential risks. I just don't have the pleasure of living there.
 
Here in NH open carry is not illegal, cc w/out a permit is. I live in a small town where long guns are still displayed in pickups & locals always carry a handgun during hunting season. One of the state's Tea Party grps held an event in Manchester, where responsible citizens carried openly. A friend, and officer, who patroled the crowd told me he respected their actions and shares their beliefs. I have a permit and cc daily. In OR, where I vacation/visit family annually open carry is just not done in the Hillsboro area.
 
Blackbeard: Yes, I do. a thief on a mission would kill for 500 bucks. However 500 is not on ones a hip. A loaded deadly weapon is. Now that is a far different thing than paper. So no, I don’t think one would rob another of a gun on their hip. Don’t suppose you have statistics of people who were robbed of a deadly weapon strapped to their person do ya? Regardless, that’s a chance I am willing to take as it is my RIGHT.

Klenbore: You said “But tell me, how would OC "deter" a couple or three ruffians moving about among others closely behind and around the man with the gun?”

Answer: Nothing would. So OC or CC neither would be relevant to a thief on a mission, like those who are out to rob money bags from guards. Some people are hell bent on a mission and will do as they wish regardless. OC is to prevent the MAJORITY.

You said “I wouldn't rely on a gun in a holster to deter them,” Exactly. Some people will not be deterred. They are as I state the exception to the rule and nothing will deter them. Nothing.

I’d really like stats on how many armed OC individuals have been robbed. That in itself could back your claim. Most of this anti OC is nothing but liberal opinion and fear mongering as normal. OC is an obvious deterrent. For proof, simply ask people if they would confront or rob an openly obviously armed person. I guarantee the MAJORITY would say HECK NO. Therefore, OC is a proven obvious legal good deterrent unless there is a random their hell bent on a mission and in that case, NOTHING will deter them.

P.S> In Colorado, even a pocket knife over 3 1/2” in your pocket is considered CC.
 
:rolleyes: As long as you're NOT from Pennsylvania what do I care how you carry?

I have only one suggestion: Be sure to wear a heavy helmet whenever you open carry around the general public. (That way nobody will be able to bash you over the head and lift that OC pistol.) ;)
 
The normalization of firearms. Or maybe it should be called the re-normalization of firearms.

How could that possibly be bad?
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This is what I've been saying for years. Getting the public USED to the idea that not just cops carry firearms is a GOOD thing, and can start to unravel 40+ years of evening news brainwashing.
 
Too bad you live in PA and need helmets for protection, possibly against voter intimidation? Out here we're stuck using guns.
 
Nothing would ["deter" a couple or three ruffians moving about among others closely behind and around the man with the gun”]. So OC or CC neither would be relevant to a thief on a mission,...
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You've missed the point completely. The guy with the gun displayed has something to take--something of great value to a criminal. What would attract two three violent perps to any one of many civilians who are not obviously carrying, rather than to any other? There's deterrence, and then there's being an obvious target.

OC is to prevent the MAJORITY. .... Some people will not be deterred. They are as I state the exception to the rule and nothing will deter them.
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Perhaps you can share the basis for your assertion the majority of crooks who are willing to attack someone in the first place are not desperate. But why would it matter? I would choose to prepare for the most serious threat.

I do not know the likelihood of someone attacking you where you live. Where I live it is very low, but I am surrounded by meth country on two sides, am adjacent to the city with the second highest murder rate in the country, and am situated at the intersection of the two most heavily trafficked drug arteries in the United States. In my environment it does not seem prudent at all to tempt fate, draw attention to myself, and advertise myself as the carrier of valuable property. I'd rather blend i while being prepared.

I’d really like stats on how many armed OC individuals have been robbed.
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No one keeps such stats, but probably not too many. Think that might just be because open carry is not permitted in most populated places? Heck, for some reason they don't even allow it in Texas. In my state, it varies by county.

For proof, simply ask people if they would confront or rob an openly obviously armed person.
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Don't know any crooks to ask...but if you do...

You might also ask them if they might be inclined to take a gun from someone if they could figure out how.

Or just maybe, ask them whom they would shoot first if they were in the act of committing an armed robbery when two citizens stumbled in--one armed, one not demonstrably so. Whom would you shoot first?

Law enforcement pros I associate with support the concept of an armed citizenry, but they all say that carrying openly is just asking for trouble. But they live where I do. I'll bet the deputy in Rupert, Idaho might well disagree.
 
Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms (Social Institutions and Social Change) (Paperback)
by Peter H. Rossi

Interviewing felony prisoners in ten state correctional systems in 1981, Wright and Rossi found extensive information suggesting that gun control laws have relatively little effect on violent criminals. For example, only 12% of criminals, and only 7% of the criminals specializing in handgun crime, had acquired their last crime handgun at a gun store. Of those, about a quarter had stolen the gun from a store; a large number of the rest, Wright and Rossi suggested, had probably procured the gun through a legal surrogate buyer, such as a girlfriend with a clean record. Fifty-six percent of the prisoners said that a criminal would not attack a potential victim who was known to be armed. Seventy-four percent agreed with the statement that "One reason burglars avoid houses where people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime." Thirty-nine percent of the felons had personally decided not to commit a crime because they thought the victim might have a gun, and eight percent said the experience had occurred "many times." Criminals in states with higher civilian gun ownership rates worried the most about armed victims. Despite the popular myth that criminals preferred small, inexpensive handguns (so-called "Saturday Night Specials" or "junk guns"), the felony prisoners preferred larger, more powerful handguns-equal to the guns which they expected the police would have. Although the criminals rarely bought guns in gun stores, the overwhelming majority stated that obtaining a gun after their release from prison would be a simple project, which might take a few hours to a few weeks. Armed and Dangerous has lost none of its importance. In the years since it was published, no-one has done any research on criminal gun use and acquisition that is even half as significant or detailed. Armed and Dangerous is also a great book to give a library. The new paperback includes an introduction by Jim Wright that discusses the reaction to Armed and Dangerous in the years since its first publication.
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I hate to be the bearer of CC bad news, but the criminals themselves say that open carry deters crime. And keep in mind, these are FELONS. Your typical misdemeanor type criminal is going to be even MORE scared to mess with a visibly armed potential victim. And notice where the criminals get their guns - via straw purchases, not stealing them from armed citizens.
 
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And the other 44%?
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Are going to attack me no matter what I do, so what difference does it make? But, if I am not VISIBLY armed, then I will NOT deter the 56% whom I would have deterred by being VISIBLY armed. 56% deterrence by open carrying is better than 0% deterrence by carrying concealed.
 
I rank this ["one of the rag writers was saying that"]right up there with, "the guy at the gun shop told me that..."
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If the guy at the gun shop happened to be the project lead for the Colt Anaconda in town for a convention years ago, you might have listened. I wish I had had the money to buy one.

The writer in this case is a renowned trainer, respected consultant, and LEO who associates with a lot of lawyers, LEOs, trainers, and others.

As I said, I personally do not count the possibility among the highest risks, but in some states it doesn't take much to charge an open carrier with something and make it stick.

And that's one more indication that the "right" choice for one jurisdiction, environment, and situation may well not be the right choice for another.

I've seen plenty of open carriers in various places in Colorado, and they seemed to be incurring little or no risk and absolutely no animosity and causing no apparent concern.

Of course, in those days the only obvious lawbreakers who seemed to be around were armed at most with little decorative knives they didn't know how to use and spending their time looking for more mind altering substances.

But not all places are the same.
 
[The other 44%] Are going to attack me no matter what I do, so what difference does it make?
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Why? What makes you a likely target over anyone else?

In fairness, if you are alone at the edge of a parking lot with a car and probably with a wallet, or walking in a National Park from your fancy SUV, you may well be a potential target, and deterrence is therefore going to matter, and the gun will probably help a lot.

But in many places, anonymity is your protection, and in many the gun cannot deter. You can't keep your distance, you cannot appear dangerous to everyone, and it (and you) are in contact distance for the surprise hit from any direction.

But, if I am not VISIBLY armed, then I will NOT deter the 56% whom I would have deterred by being VISIBLY armed.
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Nor will you necessarily present yourself to anyone as a prime target of opportunity over anyone else. No gun for the taking, and I presume no Blackberry or Nikon or expensive jewels. You just blend in.

It's going to depend on circumstances and the environment. I cannot picture how things are where you live. I've tried to describe the way they are here.
 
Hooray!!!!

Someone who commented on my OP, and got the point!


This is what I've been saying for years. Getting the public USED to the idea that not just cops carry firearms is a GOOD thing, and can start to unravel 40+ years of evening news brainwashing.
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Thank You Sir!

I did not intend for this to be another knock-down-drag-out about who's right and who's wrong. OC good/ bad, Concealed good/bad, ad nauseum.
 
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I like the option of open carry, especially with out needing a license to do so. I would like to prevent trouble before it happens. Chances are some thug thinking about robbing you will move on to the next victim. I could also conceal carry without worrying about going to jail for printing. In this state, that could happen too. Here in MA, it is not illegal to OC, but you will be riding in a cop car and need a lawyer. The antis like to drum up charges for disturbing the peace, then mark you as "unfit" to have a CCW and it is revoked along with your guns. If more people OC'ed, I think less people would be victims of crimes. When you walk into a gun store, most clerks are OCing right there. One place I go to, the guys/gals have ARs slung over their shoulders, fully loaded. I think it is more for showing off the merch more than anything. I am not intimidated because I am not there to steal anything.
 
Two OC cautionary tales from TX.

Although I now live in Alabama I lived for 26 years in the Great State of Texas. (I miss TX :( ) During my years there I learned of two incidences where LEOs were shot and killed by armed robbers while in stores.

In the first instance a plain clothes Deputy Constable was visiting a friend who owned and ran a jewelry store. This LEO was known for "flashing", deliberately allowing his gun to be seen. While talking to his friend on the customer's side of the counter an armed robber came in, saw the gun, fired and killed the constable before he had a chance to respond. It is said that the only reason others in the store were not killed was because the store owner then retrieved his hidden gun an drove away the killer with it.

In the second incidence a plains clothes HPD officer was writing a ticket for a clerk in an adult book shop when an armed robber came in. The officer's gun was concealed but he was wearing a raid jacket with "POLICE, HPD" or something to the effect and was gunned down before also having the chance to defend himself.

On the other hand in the July/August issue of American Handgunner ( At least I think it was that issue. Either that or the one before it. ( I threw it away already)) Mas Ayoob recounts the case where a CCW citizen was taken by surprise by two armed robbers in a sandwich shop. At first the citizen complied with the robbers' demands and gave them his wallet. Then the robbers ordered him and the clerk, the only two others there, into the back room. The citizen realized he was about to be executed so he "went for it" as he had no other alternatives. He succeeded in killing one of the robbers and wounding the other without being injured himself. He would not have been able to do this if he had been carry openly.

There are many more similar stories out there. Because of these incidences I will not normally carry openly. However, that does not mean that open carry should not be allowed.

Take care y'all.
 
Fashion Statement

I'm still looking forward to the day when the only comment made about your OC'd pistol has to do with your fashion sense and why you would wear a brown holster with a blue outfit.

I'm still looking forward to the day when open carry attracts as much attention as an electrician's tool belt.

I look forward to a conversation with my waitress where she asks why I'm carrying the Ruger today, and where's that charming Smith that's usually on my hip. "Well, darlin', I figgered to have some night sights put on the ole 586, so it'll be in the shop until next week." . . . "Well, that Blackhawk is just fine by me; more coffee?"

I look forward to the day that carrying a gun is so unremarkable as to be boring.

 
Posted by ArfinGreebly
I'm still looking forward to the day when the only comment made about your OC'd pistol has to do with your fashion sense and why you would wear a brown holster with a blue outfit.

.................................................

I look forward to the day that carrying a gun is so unremarkable as to be boring.
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LOL. The women especially, but the men too, will probably have as many holsters as shoes to match every outfit. Dang...I gotta get in to the holster business before the boom 0_0 - start getting Prada and Gucci to make some holsters for me (i.e. holsters more expensive than the guns they carry ;) )


Yeah, I wouldn't have said so a year ago, I totally agree on OC.
 
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