Indicators that someone will kill you.

[justashooter]

sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems are designed by nature to enable and reduce aggression. a red face and shouting rage are parasympathetic controls on the white faced sympathetic. it's biological, baby.

 

[trapperjohn]

Read pax's article. You never know who might show up in a retail establishment.

and ignore this jerk:

that you should take your meds? That you should not take things personal? Its difficult to answer your question, but are you mature enough to work in retail?

that is the most condescending and useless response to a good question I have ever seen.

 

[V4Vendetta]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll keep my wits about me.

 

[bobaloo]

I work in a government office, including a court house, and see all types. I don't worry so much about the ones yelling, they're venting and letting off steam.

Like a previous poster said, the ones that scare me are the quiet ones. I had one guy that never would get yell, but you could see him literally shaking with rage. He was also a member of one of the local "militas" and had some serious attitudes.

I always expect all that internalized rage to break one day, and took steps to be prepared, but fortunately he ended up moving to the mountains of eastern Oregon where he fit in a lot better.

On the other hand, my daughter says, "YOU worry about the quiet ones, I'll worry about the one pounding on the bar with a machete and screaming that he's going to kill every m-f in the house."

 

[tellner]

Of course, there is a time for getting ready for the fewmets to hit the windmill. If he's really set on doing you it's past time to be calm and empathetic and closing in on time to run or fight.

 

[scubie02]

According to the former firearms instructor/social worker who taught the 75-minute class, the warning signs are:

I think that's half the people on this site, including me!

I used to work nights in a liquor store while I was going to college at one point, which tended to make you a target. Everyone knows you have lots of cash, and you get lots of street people as "regulars". It was pretty common to have to toss people. One night I had three panhandler types come in and do the usual routine--the one guy came in pretty much every day at least once and bought a bottle of Wild Irish Rose. That night he came in and comes to engage me in conversation while his two buddies split up. I'm of course immediately suspicious, as he starts with "can you show me where the Wild Irish Rose is?". I say "you know where it is, you buy it every day". His witty response? "uhhhhh...I forget". I walk to the middle of the store and point, being unwilling to go all the way to the back corner on the lowest shelf and not be able to see his buddies and be somewhat hemmed in with my back to them if I'm bending over retrieving it. At some point I hear glass clink against glass and whip around to see one of them shoving a bottle in his coat. I say ok, gimme the bottle, he starts in with he hasn't got anything, lots of yelling harrassment yadda yadda, in the end I bounce the three of them out and tell them not to come back. The next night this big biker type guy comes in and says he's one of the guys brothers, and tries his dangdest to start something...has a big knife, doesn't like people accusing his poor innocent brother of things (he was the one with the Wild Irish Rose habit that we were constantly having to run off from panhandling out front). I stayed calm, didn't bite when it came to his taunts, and kept my hand resting unobtrusively on the butt of my gun (which he couldn't see--think standing with my hand on my hip sort of). He kept kind of looking though like "whatta ya got there" and eventually left.

Parking was around back in a dark/unlit area, which always made you a bit nervous that the guys you had to toss earlier might be hanging out waiting for you. Fairly often the local cops would take a cruise by and park in the lot for a minute about closing time--always appreciated that.

 

[neoncowboy]

That list is right out of "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin deBecker.I'm reading it right now.

+1

Mr. DeBecker's text is a really good primer on identifying the preindicators for violence in many different contexts. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but he definitely has some good information on how to read people.

I think that's half the people on this site, including me!

Good, I was hoping I wasn't the only one!!

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I deal with stupid customers in retail every day. It seems that the entire idea of retail enables and encourages people to get their way by making a scene. I can't believe how much abuse the cashiers put up with because they "aren't allowed to respond in a negative manner." Corporate says that they must do anything they can to accomodate the customer. :banghead:

Personally, I have grown tired of tolerating these kinds of people in retail. I am currently on my way out of the business. I had an incident the other day that could've turned south in an instant. A guy had purchased about $2500 worth of wood flooring and realized that about 30% of it was the wrong color after he got home. The next day he drove back and demanded that it be fixed. I got the right stuff for him. The cashier did her best to refund him and was trying to get information from him. Every time he answered her he was extremely condescending and used several expletives. He told her that she was worthless and didn't know *&%$. I could tell that she was getting distraught over the incident and told her to call the Manager over to take care of this jerk (I actually said customer but later told her jerk). I later explained that she didn't have to put up with abuse, that's what the managers are for. I stuck around through the whole thing to make sure things stayed civil. I am not a huge guy but I can look physically imposing, especially in black BDU pants and a red polo shirt with my arms crossed.

 

[entropy]

*irrational beliefs and ideas (i.e. 'tinfoil hat') -check

*a recent termination or layoff or the perception there will be one soon-why, do you know something I don't?

*verbal, nonverbal or written threats or intimidation-nope. I just mention my gun collection....

*a history of interpersonal conflict-definitely not.

*fascination with weaponry and/or acts of violence-Hey, who doesn't like Band of Brothers?

*comments about being so hurt, he/she thinks someone else should be hurt-Hurt people hurt people, ya know.

*expressions of a plan- Shhh...they might be listening.

*externalizing blame-it's 'the man's' fault.

*difficulty accepting authority-stop telling me what to think!

*unreciprocated romantic obsession-nah. Totally reciprocated romantic obsession.

*taking up too much of supervisor's time with behavior or performance problems-yes, I try to correct their problems...

*argumentative/uncooperative with coworkers- Who told you that?

*drastic change in belief systems-Welcome to the First Church of Appliantology...

*unwarranted anger- WHAT?!

*new or increased source of stress at home-nah, just the old storm and strife

*inability to take criticism-Yes, and I like to give it, too!

*disobeys company policy and is proud of it-Well, I do work at Wally World...

*feelings of being victimized- see externalizing blame

*sense of moral righteousness-Of course I'm right, I'm me.

*sense of entitlement- I do deserve the best.

*intoxication-Only on my moral superiority.

*expressions of hopelessness or heightehed anxiety-daily

*productivity and/or attendance declines-no, dang that Protestant work ethic..:banghead:

*special treatment by others, i.e. softening of evaluation, avoiding confrontation- I have them walking on eggshells

*violence toward inanimate objects (i.e. throwing things, damaging electronics)-I am a bit vicious to the rotten eggs when I toss them...

*steals or sabotages equipment- not intentionally, I'm just klumsy!

*lack of concern for others- Since they exsist to serve me,why should I?


Seriously, so why didja knife the guy's uncle, Larry?


I also took a 'serial killer' test,and had 8 of the 10 signs. My best friend had all 10.

 

[slopemeno]

First Church of Appliantology...somebody is a Zappa fan.

 

[McCall911]

Indicators that someone will kill you.

Good answers so far, but I have a bad answer.

It used to be that the indication began when you woke up next to your girlfriend...
And then her husband came home!

But nowadays, when the guy comes home, he could very likely say: "It's cool, man. I'm just her baby daddy!"

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Read pax's article. You never know who might show up in a retail establishment.

and ignore this jerk:



that is the most condescending and useless response to a good question I have ever seen.

I agree, TJ. V4 is a young guy who probably has seen things to give him reason to be concerned...and asked a legitimate question here. Anybody working retail these days meets all kinds. Pays to be on your toes and know the red flags.

 

[Meplat]

that you should take your meds? That you should not take things personal? Its difficult to answer your question, but are you mature enough to work in retail?

Pretty condescending post to a simple and rational question. In this day and age, ANYONE can be subject to unwarranted attack. Even retailers. Even mature retailers. Even mature retailers who don't NEED meds. Even mature retailers who dont' NEED meds and who "don't take things personally". Things starting to kinda click for ya?

We're not as likely here to be assaulted as we would in glorious gun-free environs of Australia or the UK or Scotland, but that doesn't mean there aren't still PLENTY of head cases out there willing to do harm to someone who has done NOTHING to provoke it.

Wanting to know the warning signs of an impending attack is a perfectly logical and intelligent approach to reaching old age in an unmolested state.

 

[larry_minn]

Lots of good comments here. (and a not so good one) (trying to keep from being banned)
IMO trust your gut. AND tell supervisor/owner of this. Convince them to get VIDIO camera installed. When idiot comes back at first hint he is getting violent ask him to leave. When he refuses call 911 (you have talked to owner already and he has given you permission to kick him out otherwise quit)
When he refuses to leave and is yelling/screaming when LEO show up they can deal with him. (after all thats why they get the big bucks)




For those who don't get it. That is play on earlier post on THIS thread.

 

[Archer]

Interesting topic. I was waiting to board a flight in Paris to NYC yesterday when out of the blue, a passenger in the line about 5 meters ahead of me (very ordinary looking guy, mid fifties, American, glasses, plaid shirt, denim jeans) started going off on one of the ticketing agents.

Instantly, he escalated from just screaming to trying to grab her. No cops to be seen. Everyone around frozen in fear/fascination/disbelief.

Two plainclothes guys grabbed him and dragged him off. I have no doubt that if he had a blunt object someone would have been hurt.

Point is there was NO indication of this guys behavior beforehand.

Watch their hands, have a way to get away/seek cover, be aware of your surroundings, don't let them get close.

 

[slopemeno]

When he starts screaming flip the phone off the hook and dial 911. Dont pick it up- let the dispatchers imagination run for a while (apologies to any and all dispathcers out there)

 

[Kframe]

I guess one possible indicator could be someone NOT reacting in a way that is normal or expected given the circumstances.

Um, that sounded obvious, let me try to explain.

I was working at a pizza place and this one driver was getting talked to, again, about his temper.
Seems that he would yell at some customers if he wasn't tipped, or if they had a snowy front walk he would threaten to kill them if it wasn't shoveled next time.
Really great public relations, right?

So, anyway, the mgr. got a call from a very offended customer and when the driver came back he was told that this was the final straw, that if he got one more complaint he was fired.
(Sounded to me like one more chance, not the final straw, but, whatever...)

The previous times this guy had been reprimanded he got all offended and would argue back with the manager and yell and basically have a tantrum.

Well, this time, he listened to the mgr, stared at him kinda funny, and then walked away.
The mgr. didn't catch this wierdness, and just went back to the front.
Crazy driver guy kinda wandered around the kitchen a bit and then went out the back door.
No big deal, we used to step out back for cigarettes often, and I figured he probably needed one.
But, having some sixth sense, a minute or two later I stepped out for a smoke, but really to see what the guy was up to.
He was over at his car, digging in the trunk muttering to himself.
I said "hey, how's it going?", he said "it'll be better if I find my tire iron" and kept on digging.

Well, now things have ramped up a bit and I went and told the manager.
Cops show up, crazy driver guy is fired and escorted from the premises.

Funny, we seemed to have a fair amount of exterior property damage in the ensuing weeks.

I wonder what wouldv'e happen had Crazy Guy found the tire iron.

-K

 

[McCall911]

When he starts screaming flip the phone off the hook and dial 911. Dont pick it up- let the dispatchers imagination run for a while (apologies to any and all dispathcers out there)

No, it's a very good plan, really. No offense taken.
Nothing will get the police to you any quicker than a suspicious 911 call. I'm a 911 dispatcher, BTW.

For a not-so-bad answer this time:

Regarding really hostile or suspicious people that you have to deal with in the public domain (or "the cesspool" as I call it, on bad nights) the best plan is to do what police do: Get backup. If you can get to the phone, dial 911. You don't have to say anything. If you have a silent panic alarm at your business, then activate it.

Employers, do your retail people who have to work alone the kindness of installing an accessible silent panic alarm or two. One day one of them will surely need it.

 

[Mad Chemist]

As was previously posted, target glances are big trouble. If they check over your shoulder and then check their six, while coming towards you, you better have your hand on a weapon. We had video at work and my boss was very supportive. In the seven years I worked as a stop & rob clerk I've had to draw twice, and once chased someone out of the store with a framing hammer. It was never about protecting the money, it was about protecting my a!@.

If any of you work in C-stores, it's best that you plan and train for dealing with robberies and violent customers, it will happen eventually.

JH

 

[McCall911]

oops! Meant to hit the "Edit".

 

[Janitor]

I always keep my "sitwits" about me

I believe he meant situational wits.

that you should take your meds? That you should not take things personal? Its difficult to answer your question, but are you mature enough to work in retail?

that is the most condescending and useless response to a good question I have ever seen.

But at least it was completely off the wall.

 

[crofrog]

http://getoffthex.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/819104881/m/457107822/r/580107922#580107922

Assault Is Imminent:


- face goes from red to white ( during a physical confrontation the blood will leave the surface of the body and pool to the big muscles and internal organs of the body needed for survival) In my job as a police officer I see this all the time and when I do one of two things are going to happen, the suspect is either going to fight or run
- Lips tighten over teeth
- Breathing is fast and deep
- Change of stance, their body blades and shoulder drops
- Hands closed into a fist (not uncommon to see the whites of knuckles due to hands being so tight)
- Bobbing up and down or rocking back and forth on feet (this is the bodies way to hide/ mask the initial movement of a first strike)
- Target glace (here you will see your opponent look to where he is going to hit, or where he is going to run/escape)
- Putting head and shin down (body wants to protect the airway, this action does so to a degree)
- Eye brows brought forward into a frown( again the body wants to naturally protect the visual system, this action does so to a degree)
- Stops all movements/ freezes in place
- Dropping center or lowering of body (no different that a cat or dog getting ready to pounce)
- Shedding cloths ( very common, you will see your attacker take his hat, coat, shirt, or bag off just prior to the assault)
- One syllable replies ( go from full sentences to one syllable replies….. reptilian brain is clicking in)

There are more cue's and a lot of other information over there in that thread.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"V4 is a young guy who probably has seen things to give him reason to be concerned...and asked a legitimate question here. Anybody working retail these days meets all kinds. Pays to be on your toes and know the red flags."


Thanks. My dad was a bondsman & security guard for Food Fair when he was younger. He told me about a time when a lady stuffed some frozen turkeys under her dress. When another guy stopped her, she started hitting him with one of them. Them frozen turkeys can hurt!

My point is that if people were like that back then, they are a lot worse now. I wanted some advice because this fella seemed really irate. We are the only CB store in the area so he either has to come to us or go 40 miles to the next place. I figure if he comes back I want to know what to look for.