Is the "fighting" pump shotgun dead? POLL

[Panzerschwein]

In recent years, you might have become aware of the huge increase in Law Enforcement use of AR-15 tactical carbines and rifles. It has to a large extent become the de facto LE longarm.

But as well all know, the 12 gauge pump-action tube-fed shotgun has been used succesfully by law enforcement and the military for decades. The pump shotgun is still popular for use with less-lethal ammunition such as bean bags and other things in LE hands, but for the purposes of actually duking it out with lethal force with bad guys, it has given way to the modern .223/5.56mm rifles like the AR-15. Semi-automatic shotguns are also getting quite popular these days for departments who still issue shotguns.

The U.S. military has been a user of pump-action combat shotguns since before the first World War, and there use was met with measurable success throughout the 20th century. But today, it seems most of our troops use shotguns not for direct combat, but as tools for opening doors and other tasks. Most of today's "combat shotguns" used by the military aren't actually used for fighting. There are exceptions, but mostly the M4 and other similair carbines are now heavily used for room-to-room engagements etc. etc.

So, what are the reasons for this? Are the days of the fighting pump shotgun over or almost over? I am asking mostly about usage in LE and .mil circles, not for civillian home defense etc. and am not talking about less-lethal pump shotgun options.

Let the discussion begin!

 

[beeenbag]

The shotgun will always have a place, but the increased range, rate of fire, fast reloads and capacity provided by carbines, trump the shear horsepower the shotgun provides.

 

[Jason_W]

Shotguns have always had only a minor role in the military. For LEO use, it's definitely being largely replaced by carbines, but once again, shotguns have always been a largely secondary weapon for police.

Patrol officers typically will end up using the closest available weapon (their sidearm) and tactical units have always been pretty carbine heavy.

The real place of the fighting shotgun has always been among civilians. It will remain so as long as a reliable pump action can be bought for half the cost of an AR.

 

[Defc0n]

Some local agencies around here have a choice between which one they carry in their car, AR or pump-action. The individual officer is allowed to choose which one they want, and as long as they qualify on that particular weapon, they can bring it with them on patrol. Other agencies have particular officers (usually certain patrol areas) assigned with specific weapons, in addition to the regular sidearm at least.

I wouldn't say that the pump shotgun is dead, but a lot of the younger generation seems to be choosing to carry the AR in jurisdictions where they have been afforded a choice in what they carry.

 

[Sam1911]

The officers and soldiers I've trained with and spoken with have almost universally passed on the shotgun and prefer the ease, light weight, flexibility, better penetration characteristics, better accuracy, lower recoil, better sighting options, etc., etc., of the carbine over the shotgun.

Some officers related to me during one class that their department's pump shotguns had been retired to the arms room permanently some years back because so many officers refused to do their qualifications with "those cannons."

Shotguns will have useful purposes in military and LE circles for years to come, but they're going to be more and more limited and will probably be eventually completely phased out.

 

[Sam1911]

Actually, Cooldill, someone ran this very thread in January. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=740245

Why not look at the results and comments from that one. I think you'll find the answers you're looking for.

 

[AI&P Tactical]

Not if you come around here messing with me or mine.

 

[Al Thompson]

As Sam mentioned, already done.