Limitations of .357 Magnum

[Antihero]

So no data, just a generalization. Okay.

Whether the barrel is fixed to the frame or moves with every shot does not predict how well a gun shoots. There are too many other variables involved. Accuracy is usually gun and ammo specific. Check out any accuracy test with gun reviews and you'll find a wide variation in group size with the same gun.

You obviously won't listen here but I'll throw this out.

The barrel not moving about means that .....the barrel is stable. It doesn't mean it's a huge difference but the tolerences mean it'll be a little different. Ever notice the difference in a standard auto when you rack the first round in vs the 2nd round cycling? It's not inches different, but it doesn't take too much angle to make a half inch difference with a 4.5inch barrel at 15 yards either.

It's also why target 22s are usually fixed barrel as well

 

[Tallball]

My first "real" handgun was a 4" medium-framed 357. If I could only have one handgun, that would be my choice.

A 357 is a versatile revolver. It can shoot extremely mild 38's, or fire-breathing 357's, and everything in between. It's a good round for SD, or just plinking.

(Hint: If people have been using them for SD for almost 100 years, you can bet that they're fairly effective.)

These are my current favorites. I'm not sure if the Model 28 has the best trigger of any of my revolvers, or if that honor goes to my K22. They're both going to the range with my on Friday (along with my 625).

Smith And Wesson Model 28

• Tallball
• Mar 15, 2019

Ruger Blackhawk 357 Magnum

• Tallball
• Jul 30, 2018

Taurus Model 66

• Tallball
• Jan 6, 2018

Taurus Model 689

• Tallball
• Jan 7, 2018
• 1

 

[swagbrdr]

I had a .357 and sold it. I wasn’t that impressed with it. I also have a .44 mag. I just couldn’t see myself ever grabbing it out of the safe over the .44. I ended up selling it more than what I paid, so I’m happy with the decision.

For me, I like to keep the caliber count down on reloading. One less caliber I have to worry about. If I want a lighter load, I’ll load .44 spl Or shoot my auto loaders.

I don’t EDC with revolvers. Many do and I have no issues with that. .38 spl/.357 mag have been a staple in that area forever. It’s not my cup of tea though, as I like auto loaders for that job.

As far as hunting goes, see paragraph one.

 

[The Hand Gunner]

Can moose be aggressive? I don't know anything about them.

Yes. Yes they can. They will beat the stuffing out of anything that gets in their way if they are pissed off enough.

Edit: Also my mom says they'll stomp you till you are mush. And they'll beat up your vehicle.

 

[whm1974]

You obviously won't listen here but I'll throw this out.

The barrel not moving about means that .....the barrel is stable. It doesn't mean it's a huge difference but the tolerences mean it'll be a little different. Ever notice the difference in a standard auto when you rack the first round in vs the 2nd round cycling? It's not inches different, but it doesn't take too much angle to make a half inch difference with a 4.5inch barrel at 15 yards either.

It's also why target 22s are usually fixed barrel as well

I do believe that this is the wrong thread for that arguement as the vast majority of firearms chambered in .357 Magnum are revolvers, with some lever action rifles, and one Pump Action long arm that I know of. All three of those, have fixed barrels anyway, making this arguement mute.

The only semi auto pistols that I am aware of available in .357 Magnum on the market is the Desert Eagle.

 

[mcb]

I do believe that this is the wrong thread for that arguement as the vast majority of firearms chambered in .357 Magnum are revolvers, with some lever action rifles, and one Pump Action long arm that I know of. All three of those, have fixed barrels anyway, making this arguement mute.

The only semi auto pistols that I am aware of available in .357 Magnum on the market is the Desert Eagle.

Don't forget the Coonan 357 magnum, a 1911 based 357 Mag semi-auto.

 

[whm1974]

Don't forget the Coonan 357 magnum, a 1911 based 357 Mag semi-auto.

Is it currently in production?

 

[mcb]

Is it currently in production?

Yes, I beleive relatively recently (2015?) they started back up.

http://www.coonaninc.com/

 

[whm1974]

Yes, I beleive relatively recently (2015?) they started back up.

http://www.coonaninc.com/

Rather pricey even for the .45 ACP ones...

 

[xphunter]

357 Magnum barrels are made for the Contender and and G-2 frames. Single-shot break-open.

 

[mcb]

You can get 357 Mag in just about every action you can think of.

Obviously revolvers, but semi-auto handguns, and single shot handguns too, single shot rifles, lever action rifles, pump action rifles, bolt action rifles. Semi-auto rifles are the only action type I can think of that a 357 Mag does not jump to mind. I am sure there are a few out there but I don't think there has ever been a popular 357 Mag semi-auto rifle every made. I could be wrong on that.

 

[fxvr5]

My last comment on accuracy as this has run afoul of the thread's intent. The way some people are stating the superior accuracy of guns with barrels attached to frames (e.g. revolvers, Hi-points) over guns with moving barrels (semi-autos - other than Hi-points), one can only conclude that all guns with frame attached barrels shoot better than all guns with moving barrels. That just ain't so.


Back on topic: I agree there are few limitation of the 357. It would not be a good choice on large dangerous game (though no doubt it can do the job is the bullet gets past all the muscle and bone to the CNS), but within the limits of its parameters, it is a very capable cartridge. It's my favorite revolver cartridge, though on some days I might be more inclined to give that title to the 44 Magnum, but for the same reasons - extreme versatility.

 

[Jack Ryan]

My experience is people's shooting skill vary inversely depending one which I am closest to when they do the shooting, a computer screen or the shooting bench they are shooting FROM.

 

[xphunter]

A shooter skill-set is definitely a part of showing what a gun can or cannot do.
It is a systems approach, of which we are all a part of (good or bad).
Some weapons are easier to tweak out consistent accuracy, while others take a greater/better level of the fundamentals to show off it's capability.

There are the wanna-bees/tactical-ted's/mall-ninjas for sure.
There also people who can consistently shoot better (whatever better is) than others.

For those who have mastered the fundamentals, using semi-autos that have SD sights and or less than desirable triggers, can be very deadly under pressure from field shooting positions...I don't have a problem with that, and I celebrate their mastery of the fundamentals.
Just because I cannot do something very good, does not mean someone else should not be doing it.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

The .357 Mag is a great round but it's not quite enough for woods carry in my part of Montana. Yeah, I'm aware that a guide in Alaska killed a 1,000 coastal Grizzly with 4 rounds of 147gr Hard Cast 9mm but generally .44 Mag is considered just barely acceptable for big bears. A buddy of mine that grew up hunting (and that's killed dozens of black bears although never a Grizzly) feels that .454 Casull is the least gun he'd pack where he knew there'd be big bears. I'm a fair hand with a sidearm but I rely on a shotgun with slugs for that role at the moment.

 

[whm1974]

The .357 Mag is a great round but it's not quite enough for woods carry in my part of Montana. Yeah, I'm aware that a guide in Alaska killed a 1,000 coastal Grizzly with 4 rounds of 147gr Hard Cast 9mm but generally .44 Mag is considered just barely acceptable for big bears. A buddy of mine that grew up hunting (and that's killed dozens of black bears although never a Grizzly) feels that .454 Casull is the least gun he'd pack where he knew there'd be big bears. I'm a fair hand with a sidearm but I rely on a shotgun with slugs for that role at the moment.

Killed a 1,000lbs grizzly with 9mm??? Are you sure it wasn't 9mm Winchester Magnum instead?

 

[fxvr5]

Killed a 1,000lbs grizzly with 9mm??? Are you sure it wasn't 9mm Winchester Magnum instead?

9mm Luger

https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

Grizzlies have been killed with a 22 as well.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz6MwGmqKPS

 

[whm1974]

9mm Luger

https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

Grizzlies have been killed with a 22 as well.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz6MwGmqKPS

She did that with a single shot rifle in .22 Long??? And at a few yards to 30 feet max??? I didn't even know you could operate a single shot rifle that fast. How often do bears get killed by .22 Rimfire anyway?

 

[CraigC]

My last comment on accuracy as this has run afoul of the thread's intent. The way some people are stating the superior accuracy of guns with barrels attached to frames (e.g. revolvers, Hi-points) over guns with moving barrels (semi-autos - other than Hi-points), one can only conclude that all guns with frame attached barrels shoot better than all guns with moving barrels. That just ain't so.

It's called a generalization and generally speaking, it's true. You'll pay about two to four times that of a decent revolver to get an auto that will shoot as accurately. Which is usually something like a custom 1911 or a Sig P210. Glocks and other service autos? Forget it.

And I'm talking about removing as much of the human aspect as possible. I'll be waiting over here for examples of service autos that can do this at 25yds. It's five shots into about 5/8" out of a bone stock Super Redhawk with a red dot.

 

[whm1974]

I could be misremembering things but my low cost Hi-Point .45 shot noticeably better them then my .38 Special S&W Model 10 did with it's trigger job.

 

[fxvr5]

It's called a generalization and generally speaking, it's true. You'll pay about two to four times that of a decent revolver to get an auto that will shoot as accurately. Which is usually something like a custom 1911 or a Sig P210. Glocks and other service autos? Forget it.

And I'm talking about removing as much of the human aspect as possible. I'll be waiting over here for examples of service autos that can do this at 25yds. It's five shots into about 5/8" out of a bone stock Super Redhawk with a red dot.

What ammo?

Does the gun shoot all 5-shot groups that size? If you fired 50 shots, would they all be within 5/8"?

It's one thing to say what group size a gun 'can' shoot with 5 shots, and what it will do with a much larger number of shots, like 50 rounds - which is a much better method for testing accuracy.

Small groups happen by chance, and this is especially true when talking about 5-shot groups. 5-shot groups are a poor measure of a gun's/ammo's actual accuracy, and focusing on the smallest groups is sampling bias.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/25/accuracy-testing-shortcomings-of-the-five-shot-group/

I have a 5-shot group under 1" (0.93") with a S&W M&P45 4.0" barrel. But none of the other 5-shot groups were that small. Ammo was Underwood 230 gr GDHP +P, average speed was 1007 fps.

I also have some mighty big 5-shot groups fired by revolvers.

That's why I've said that accuracy is gun and ammo specific. Because it is.

 

[Varminterror]

There’s nothing a .357mag does well enough to make me prefer to use it for anything. I have a handful of them, but largely because gun guys are supposed to have them. But for every task, another option will exceed the 357magnum sufficiently such I just can’t find joy in the 357.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Killed a 1,000lbs grizzly with 9mm??? Are you sure it wasn't 9mm Winchester Magnum instead?

9mm Luger

https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

Grizzlies have been killed with a 22 as well.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz6MwGmqKPS

Yeah, the bear was actually in the process of attacking them and Shoemaker killed it with four rounds of Buffalo Bore 9mm Woodsman loads. I carry that same ammo in my nines when I'm in the woods although I also have a very similar loading from Underwood that I want to try (it's also 9mm 147gr hard cast loaded hot but half the price of BB). Despite it working out for him I don't think I want to try it myself. He was very cool under pressure and placed hit shot supremely well, but I expect he also got pretty lucky. I don't have a big bore wheelgun right now so I roll with two 9mm sidearms and a shotgun. Once background checks are back to normal and the stock level gets better I'll pick up a 629 or 69. I have a lot of confidence in the 12 ga with Brenneke or Duplex Steelhead slugs but it's a PitA to lug a shotgun around all the time.

 

[whm1974]

9mm is something I would carry for protection against violent people, not bears!!!

 

[xphunter]

357 Mag, 9mm, 357 Sig, 40 S&W are not cartridges I would choose to hunt bears with for sure.
If, I was carrying one of those handguns for a different reason, and that is all I had (and things went south), would I use it, IF, I had time to? Yep!