Manual Safety-Yes or No

[Logistar]

I always laugh at the idea that some folks have that we are going to be too stupid to deactivate a thumb safety under pressure.

HEY! I resemble that remark!

In reality, I believe I would have pulled my gun, swiped the safety, and fired if the situation called for it. I practiced it and practiced it and I honestly believe that it would be unlikely that I would miss the safety in a defensive situation.

When I was "experimenting" (learning, fact gathering, whatever you want to call it), I tried pulling the gun and firing as rapidly as possible. I tried faster and faster. I THOUGHT I would start missing the target wildly but I won't (under ANY circumstances) pull the trigger until I am ON target. I was happy with my shots. (I kinda surprised myself.) The OTHER surprise was that to acheive that kinda speed I guess I was "cheating" when it came to getting the safety off. Occasionally, the trigger would not pull.

Since I was "pretending" to need a shot in a HURRY I got this REALLY sick feeling when I had the gun pointed DEAD on target and no bang. If I had needed the shot that quickly and the safety stayed on then I'd likely be dead before I could get it off and fire.

After that day if my gun has a safety it is off whenever holstered and ready for carry. All my carry guns are DA/DAO so the safety is not necessary anyway. Having said all that I believe EVERYONE should carry in a manner where they are comfortable carrying. - I just changed my mind.



It's OK. I knew what you meant anyway, Correia.

Logistar



Logistar: Gee, looks like I "accidentally" spilled a little superglue on Correia's CCW safety while it is in the on position.

Later that night....
Correia: OK all you gang members! Take THIS! (Silence) Hmmm.... my safety seems.......
Gang Member: Looks like we got ourselves ANOTHER CCWer who is "too stupid to deactivate a thumb safety under pressure". Get him!

 

[Art Eatman]

Odd. Whether or not a self-loader did or didn't have a safety has never been anything I've ever thought about. Since I've been meddling with Ol' Slabsides for a really long time, thumbing the safety off is reflex.

I shot IPSC for three years, back in the early eighties before the days of race guns and zoomie holsters. The safety always came off during the draw from the holster. Reflex, no thought required.

I guess I just don't understand the problem.

, Art

 

[45auto]

Good thread,

I'll ask the stupid questions.
When would the sear "bounce" off the hammer hooks? On recoil if the sear and hammer are not proper?
Would a series 80 prevent this or it happens when the trigger is depressed- of course?

Tuner: What do you feel is the lowest trigger pull(breaking like a glass rod) using the "original" type parts and springs?

Thanks

 

[1911Tuner]

Pre-Rooneygun 80's

Art! A kindred spriit! Ever shoot at North Wilkesboro NC?
It was there in 1978 that I learned during a tie-breaker that
Mickey Fowler is a tough man to beat on a plate machine.
Whew!

I miss the good old days...

Tuner

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

When you've shot a 1911 enough to make it look like this:

Come back and tell me whether you think a manual safety is too difficult to use. People who train with their gun enough don't have these problems.

 

[1911Tuner]

Andrew's Oldie

Ahh...Good to see that another early production slabsides is still
sptitin' lead and shuckin' brass. I've got a Colt that was built
in 1912, and it still does range duty.

As far as lookin' like that...I've got a few that make your old girl
look positively radiant...So many cracks in the frame that it
looks like a dry river bed, and more than a few slides have
been shot to destruction.

If you take a notion to sell that old pistol, keep me in mind.
Looks like it's aquired some real character over the past
80 or so years.

Tuner

 

[sm]

Thanks for that pic, memories...sniff...wish I still had mine...

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

1911tuner: that's my dad's carry pistol and it's only been in existance since '78 or so.

it'll never be sold.

 

[Art Eatman]

Naw, Tuner, I only shot in matches in Austin and Houston. Another guy and I started the old Hill Country Practical Pistol Club and affiliated with IPSC "before it really got organized" as it is today. That was in March of 1981. I've always joked that Chip McCormick is "my fault", since I contributed to his getting interested in the organized competition.

Those were fun days. A bit of throat and polish, bevel the mag well, some trigger work and decent sights, and "Go for it!"

And I don't recall anybody ever blowing a run on account of having any trouble with the manual safety.

Art

 

[Delmar]

Thank you 1911Tuner for your expertice on the subject-I really get weary of all the 1911 bashers who heard a story or read a story about how this or that failed and the weapon misfired, went full auto and killed every one on the range and a whole host of fly food. I know there are people who just don't like ole slabsides, but thats all that needs to be said. There are those who cannot shoot them well and thats okay too. All kinds of makes and models and different kinds of actions out there-there is something for everyone.
I'm sure the hype out there is good for your business and the dremel company has prolly ruined more 1911's than mud and combat ever will. I don't see the 1911 as necessarily the do all and end all, but its what I have carried for over 30 years and it has done its job every single time. I can't ask for more reliability than that. Because I carry one, I get a lot of questions about it and hear all kinds of stories, but what makes me shake my head are those new shooters who buy one brand new and think they have to gut the thing and have to put in hundreds or thousands of dollars to get them "right." I tell them to go and spend their money on quality ammo and practice with it until they can really tell what they want to change. To the few who actually took my advise, it is amazing how stock their 1911 is.

 

[Correia]

Logistar, at that point I would be forced to use strong language, and buy a Glock or something.

 

[Logistar]

- and somehow I believe that might actually work, Correia.
I am usually too serious most of the time. - I am working on it though!

Seriously though, I hope everyone here understands and can tolerate the fact that some people aren't comfortable doing certain things. For several years I would not have considered carrying any weapon with the safety off. Over time I suppose you learn and gain confidence.

So many times I started to say that posters here (and on TFL) were nuts or unsafe... etc. Over time I have come to see that you guys are generally always right. I just had to learn. (I am still uncomfortable with C&L though- even though I know it is safe! )

I think the answer to the original question is: "Whatever you feel the most comfortable with". - After reading all these posts of course!

Logistar

 

[emann]

NO!!!

 

[1911Tuner]

re Andrew's Oldie

Ahhh...Sorry Andrew. I went back and took a second, closer look.
The lighting made it hard to see the scalloped area behind the trigger, and I didn't scroll down far enough to see the hammer.
Plus my eyes ain't what they used ta be...
My bad

Still looks like it's aquired some character though...

Keep it in the family.

Cheers!
T

 

[1911Tuner]

re: Delmar and Art

Those were the days Art...Reminds me of how old I'm gettin'...
Did Chip ever get that "heeling" problem cured?

Right on the head Delmar...about the Dremel and many other points.

As for business, I'm afraid that I haven't been a practicing
smith in about 12 years now, and most of my work is pro
bono....for the guy who does without lunch for 6 months to
be able to afford his pistol and winds up with a problem
child. The guy who has the same problem after it's been back
(to name your company warranty station) twice, and is too
honest to pass his problem on to another working stiff.
Mostly, it's a "Love of the Breed" kinda thing, and I get to
keep my hand in.



I spend a LOT of time getting hammers to stop following slides
on friends pistols after a trigger job goes south, though. Most
of the time, it's a 10-minute fix between stages at a match.
I get invited to the local matches...but not to compete. The
young upstarts are too tough for this old man. We've got a
19 year-old kid from Charlotte who is unreal. Look out Leatham,
Chris is comin' after ya...

Thanks for the positive responses. I know that sometimes I come off as opinionated and blunt, but it's not meant that way.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Mike Irwin]

Since I carry a revolver about 99% of the time, I'd have to say that in my case it's simply not applicable.

 

[P95Carry]

I know that sometimes I come off as opinionated and blunt

Tuner ... I would disagree!! I am not one of the dedicated 1911 users but read about the breed always with interest. Despite my well advancing age, learning has not stopped.

I find your contributions most interesting ..... and am always keen to listen to the voice of experience. I consider you, amongst many .. a great asset to this board.

 

[1911Tuner]

Blunt

P95, you're too kind. Many thanks amigo.

Maybe not blunt so much as one-track-minded...as in
"Just the facts ma'am."

It's folks like you who keep me doing this kind of thing...
despite the flames and the confrontations. Never stop
learning. I don't.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[P95Carry]

P95, you're too kind. Many thanks amigo.

I only tell em like I see em!!

 

[WingZero]

I shoot 1911's and glocks, so with (or without) a manual safety, doesn't really matter too me. What matters, is that it is a pistol I feel comfortable with. (Which is almost all of them).

 

[Pico]

Manual safety NO

I don't like an off switch for my handguns. Training may fool you into thinking you can deal with it but being human, there is always the chance you will leave the safety on when you need it the most.

I like internal safeties a la Glock and chose the CZ 75 BD for the decocker option as opposed to the cocked, locked, ready to rock option. I think decocking quickly to a heavy DA trigger pull is a much better safety option.

For any firearm, the best safety is a trigger finger off the trigger until needed.

Pico

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I always laugh at the idea that some folks have that we are going to be too stupid to deactivate a thumb safety under pressure."

Years ago Evan Marshall wrote an article in which he described being surprised by someone popping up where there shouldn't have been anyone.

He drew his gun, an S&W semi-auto, and promptly fumbled the safety several times before he got it off.

Turns out the guy wasn't a hostile, but just a mushroom who had been overlooked.

Marshall, IIRC, switched to a SIG after that encounter.

 

[Graystar]

Here's a thought I had about decockers....

What if, in the high stress of the situation, you decocked your gun before trying to shoot?

Think it can't happen? I wonder....hmmm

 

[Boats]

This thread is still going?

Years ago Evan Marshall wrote an article in which he described being surprised by someone popping up where there shouldn't have been anyone.

He drew his gun, an S&W semi-auto, and promptly fumbled the safety several times before he got it off.

Turns out the guy wasn't a hostile, but just a mushroom who had been overlooked.

Let's see--poor situational awareness, selects a gun with slide mounted safeties, fumbles with his gun and its hard to reach safeties. Fudges "statistics" on the side. Yeah, I'll take his word on something. Wouldn't trust the guy with a nail gun.

However, this "incident," provided it is not as obviously faked as many of the others he has "gathered," would have made a good data point for his "one shot stop" theory had he just been able to snap fire into the "mushroom" with his panicky shooting style.

 

[Handy]

Graystar,

If it is a decocker, and not a safety decocker, the gun would fire. So what would be the problem?