Mexico Retaliates for Border Wall Plan

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Vincente wants a war?

He'll have his war.

The Minutemen have had to turn away all the people that are ready to go down to the border armed. When they are ready to turn their benign vigil into an armed resistance, their numbers will swell dramatically.

So if Vincente wants to do something about this wall with a show of force, let him try. Please. I'd love to go down to Texas and get the ol' Manifest Destiny machine running again.
 
yonderway said:
Vincente wants a war?

He'll have his war...

It is not hard to predict that this nation will soon be at war with our neighbors to the south...

Vicente Fox has trouble with his own people and his Congress in Mexico City, so he takes it out on the United States, who he blames as the originator of his lot in life! He is not alone... radical leftists are coming into office throughout Central and South America (Venezuela and Bolivia are the latest). Argentina and Chile are pretty much run by leftists already. The United States will be at war with all of them soon.

What do we do?

The solution is quite simple actually. The United States has been castigated even though we are the most benevolent nation on earth... we give aid to all yet we are condemned. Time to shut the spigot. No immigration. None. No aid. None.

Let's see how Central and South America feel when this nation closes its doors for everything. Then they'll realize the problem lies not to the north!
 
I'd love to go down to Texas and get the ol' Manifest Destiny machine running again.

Oh my. :barf:

And folks wonder why many cultural minorities (or smaller nations) consider Americans to be self-righteous bastards. I cannot imagine such an order would ever be given and, if it were, I cannot imagine it would be followed...

Of course, that logic has failed many times. :fire:
 
Camp David said:
The solution is quite simple actually. The United States has been castigated even though we are the most benevolent nation on earth... we give aid to all yet we are condemned. Time to shut the spigot. No immigration. None. No aid. None.

+1

In that case, I predict a wave of armed revolutions by leftists, resulting in concentration camps, expropriation of the rich, and even more oppression and misery for the poor in the long run. These people adamantly refuse to look at what happened with/within/to the USSR.

Where the above model fails would be in the couple of the countries that have huge narcobarons. Those guys have the money to have their own private armies to shoot up any peasants and leftists that try anything. Such will establish brutal dictatorships, with the same practical results above.

At any rate, it is really time to leave these peoples to their own devices. All societies must go through their teething pains. We prevent their natural development by nursing them too much.
 
Camp David said:
The United States has been castigated even though we are the most benevolent nation on earth... we give aid to all yet we are condemned. Time to shut the spigot. No immigration. None. No aid. None.

I would be 100% behind going to the words of George Washington, who wrote "The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest."
 
Ezekiel said:
And folks wonder why many cultural minorities (or smaller nations) consider Americans to be self-righteous bastards. I cannot imagine such an order would ever be given and, if it were, I cannot imagine it would be followed...

I really don't care what third world countries think of us. They bite the hand that feeds.
 
CAnnoneer said:
In that case, I predict a wave of armed revolutions by leftists,

Shame that they concentrate into a few states and then legislate their own guns away. What will they be armed with? Paintball guns?
 
Camp David said:
What do we do?

The solution is quite simple actually. The United States has been castigated even though we are the most benevolent nation on earth... we give aid to all yet we are condemned. Time to shut the spigot. No immigration. None. No aid. None.

Let's see how Central and South America feel when this nation closes its doors for everything. Then they'll realize the problem lies not to the north!

If we do this, Mexico will be left to wallow in it's own crepulence. Let the "bleeding hearts" go south of the border, only to be treated as they are in Iraq... shot, beheaded, hanged, etc.

If Mexico decides to declare war, so be it! They will have no one to blame but their own selfish, Socialist practices. We all know where that has led every nation the indulges in the practice... self destruction! :rolleyes: It will be their own damned fault!

Scott
 
yonderway said:
I really don't care what third world countries think of us. They bite the hand that feeds.

I've recently learned that the invocation of Godwin's Law is considered "bad form", so I shan't. Suffuce it to say your previously expressed neo-expansionist view disturbs me.

Acceptance of "Manifest Destiny" as an appreciable theory disavows any sort of credibility.
 
Mexico Promises to Block Border Wall Plan

I know there is another similar story on this, http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172187 , so if they are too close in detail this can be merged or closed.

Mexico Promises to Block Border Wall Plan

By MARK STEVENSON
Associated Press Writer
Dec 20 7:02 PM US/Eastern

MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it. Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration.

Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives on Friday, as "shameful" and his foreign secretary, Luis Ernesto Derbez, echoed his complaints on Tuesday.


"Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall," Derbez said.

"What has to be done is to raise a storm of criticism, as is already happening, against this," he said, promising to turn the international community against the plan.

Some stretches of the U.S.-Mexico border are already marked by fences, but in some heavily-trafficked sections walls have already been erected by the United States, often using 10-foot-high sections of military surplus steel. Those sections, which typically run several miles, can be found in southern Arizona and California.

It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling the proposal has generated in Mexico, where editorial pages are dominated by cartoons of Uncle Sam putting up walls bearing anti-Mexican messages.

Many Mexicans, especially those who have spent time working in the U.S., feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy.

Fernando Robledo, 42, of the western state of Zacatecas, says the proposals could stem migration and disrupt families by breaking cross- border ties.

"When people heard this, it worried everybody, because this will affect everybody in some way, and their families," Robledo said. "They were incredulous. How could they do this, propose something like this?"

Robledo, whose son and mother are U.S. citizens, predicted the measure "would unleash conflict within the United States" as small businesses fail for lack of workers.

He said many Mexicans felt betrayed by the anti-immigrant sentiment.

"We learned to believe in the United States. We have a binational life," he said of Zacatecas, a state that has been sending migrants north for more than a century. "It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory."

The government is scrambling to fight on two fronts. On Monday, it announced it had hired Allyn & Company, a Dallas-based public relations company to help improve Mexico's image and stem the immigration backlash.

"If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico, it would improve their views on specific bilateral issues like immigration and border security," Rob Allyn, president of the PR firm, told The Associated Press Tuesday.

Jose Luis Soberanes, head of the government's National Human Rights Commission, suggested Mexico go further.

"I would expect more energetic reactions from our authorities," Soberanes told local media. "It's preferable to have a more demanding government, more confrontation with the United States."

Mexico has also said it is recruiting U.S. church, community and business groups to oppose the proposal.

And the government has stepped up its defense of migrants, airing a series of radio spots here aimed at migrants returning home for the holidays.

"Had a labor accident in the United States? You have rights ... Call," reads the ad, sponsored by Mexico's Foreign Relations Department, which has helped migrants bring compensation suits in the United States.

The sense of dread connected with the measures is hardly restricted to Mexico. Immigrant advocacy and aid groups in the United States are worried about provisions of the House bill that upgrade unlawful presence in the United States from a civil offense to a felony.

"It would have a horrific impact on immigrants right organizing and immigrant communities" in the United States, said Jennifer Allen of the Tucson, Ariz.-based Red de Accion Fronteriza.

The mistaken belief that the proposals are a done deal _ they must still be submitted to the Senate _ have caused "just complete fear and shock" among some activists and immigrants, Allen said.

The House bill, passed on a 239-182 vote, includes a proposal to build 700 miles of additional fence through parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. It would also enlist military and local law enforcement to help stop illegal entrants and require employers to verify the legal status of their workers.

Mexicans are outraged by the proposed measures, especially the extension of the border wall, which many liken to the Berlin Wall. Some are urging their government to fight it fiercely.

"Our president should oppose that wall and make them stop it, at all costs," said Martin Vazquez, 26, at the Mexico City airport as he returned from his job as a hotel worker in Las Vegas. "More than just insulting, it's terrible."

____

Associated Press reporter Victor Bermudez contributed to this report from Mexico City.
 
Ezekiel said:
I've recently learned that the invocation of Godwin's Law is considered "bad form", so I shan't. Suffuce it to say your previously expressed neo-expansionist view disturbs me.

Acceptance of "Manifest Destiny" as an appreciable theory disavows any sort of credibility.

I'm getting sick of Godwin's law. There are a lot of times when comparing existing socialist regimes to the Nazi's would be appropriate; but then someone cites Godwin's law trying to get some righteous indignation going (not accusing you of that, you expressly did NOT do that :) ).

There's a reason national socialism came to power, there's a reason it got violent, and there's a reason it failed.

As for the matter at hand: build a wall, a minefield, and a razor wire fence. Leave the dead in the no-man's land as a warning to others. You want in, come through the gate with your work card or passport.

JH
 
Many Mexicans, especially those who have spent time working in the U.S., feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy.
Not at all. We (at least I) welcome people that work hard, and contribute the countries economy.

This is not at all about those people. This is about the people who flaunt that they break the law to be here and send all their earnings to the country that really holds their loyalty. They are a drain on the system, and the real impetus for wanting a wall along the southern border.

Fox and his socialist ilk should look to the real source of that slap in the face to honest, hard working, law abiding Mexican citizens. It comes from the illegals that seem to think they should be able to do whatever they like independent of the law.
-
 
A war with Mexico may or may not be inevitable but it is by no means simple. We would not be fighting just the sovereign natiion of Mexico, we would also be fighting the U.N. mafia, narco-para-military units, unknown amounts of Mexicans inside our borders, various cadres of pro-immigrant sympathizers, and, by all current lights, possibly our own government. Mexico is also the tip of the "iceberg" represented by virulent leftwing forces now accumulating throughout Latin America. This is, in its own way, as big a threat as the Middle East.

"Mexico," in microcosm, represents much of what has gone wrong with our entire political structure and system over the last several decades.

This could be a very good reason to sort out the problems by decisive action. We need to know who is with America, the real America, and who isn't, because time's waning.
 
Daniel T said:
Absolutely. Why would you want any of Mexico anyway?

I wonder if Americans said the same thing about the expanse of the southwest from Texas to California before we assimilated those territories.
 
longeyes said:
A war with Mexico may or may not be inevitable but it is by no means simple.

If we simply assimilated Mexico as a territory that would pretty much nip the whole reason for illegal immigration in the first place. People would be free to come & go as it would all be America. The solution would have its ups and downs. We'd end up with a much shorter southern border to defend (as if we defend the one we've got now...)

But such a move would almost certainly shift American politics even further to the left, especially if the Mexican provinces later attained statehood and sent senators and representatives to congress.
 
A previous poster said: No immigration and no aid, we should think of ourselves. I agree. Totally. And I add: NO "COMPASSION."

America is at a point where we cannot afford "compassion," which is faux compassion anyway. Compassion is now just a ploy that is being used against us, to weaken our resolve and emasculate the nation. If we are smart, if we are warriors, we will see through this--if we want to prevail and keep our legacy.

Compassion means losing what is left of America--is that what we want? I know I don't.
 
I don't think we are in any position to "absorb" 100-million-plus people, with all their current problems. Talk about nation-building. It's just not realistic. The political, social, economic, and cultural disparities are too great. We can trade with Mexico, we can try to influence their policies as a wise uncle, we can contain them. Absorbing them is a plan only in the globalist (socialist) playbook.
 
[QUOTEThis is, in its own way, as big a threat as the Middle East.
][/QUOTE]


This could be a very good reason to sort out the problems by decisive action. We need to know who is with America, the real America, and who isn't, because time's waning.

Both of the above are important statements, sometimes your enemy is
your neighbor rather then the other side of the planet. Since we no longer
live in the 1800's it's time we assess what is right for America, it's people
and that includes it's working class.
 
Can a brotha' get a $0.10 bag?

yonderway said:
If we simply assimilated Mexico as a territory that would pretty much nip the whole reason for illegal immigration in the first place...

Please tell me you're somewhere with a lot of hashish. :eek:
 
Why would you want any of Mexico anyway?
Abundant sunshine for solar power plants, or take a lesson from Israel about making the arid lands bloom for oil seed production. Beaches for resorts and the fisheries. Oil fields. Tropic forests with many still undiscovered plants and animals for new medicinal drugs. My favorite furniture style (Mission Oak) and one of my favorite cuisines originates from land that used to be Mexico.
 
Ezekiel said:
Please tell me you're somewhere with a lot of hashish. :eek:

That was posted as a humorous thought originally. I guess I torpedoed the idea of it being funny when I actually brought up some of the problems that would create.

The whole concept stems from the quandary of what to do with Mexico after they declare war against us again and we beat them soundly as we have before. I don't want us to go in there and rebuild their infrastructure like we're doing in Iraq. Hell, they might go to war with us in the hopes that we will leave the place in better shape than it was when we arrived (like Iraq).

So what do we do if Vincente unleashes the dogs of war? After we kill his poodles, do we take more Mexican territory for the U.S.? Do we let them cry "uncle!" and go back to our side of the border?
 
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