Mountain Lion Attack

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Every time there is a cat attack and the victim survives they always repeat the same telling words, "I never saw it coming." There is a very good reason for this. Even though a large cat could easily maul an unarmed person they always choose to attack from behind. Even in Africa where lions are abundant there are numerous cases where people armed only with sticks and stones have chased them off their victims. They simply will not take the chance to be injured for food. Now to protect their young can be a different story, but even then if only one of their young is in danger they normally will not risking being killed and making orphans out of all of their young. Of course this is the norm not the exception.
 
According to "the Mammals of British Columbia" page 338, there were 14 adult males measured in Missoula, Montana (1943) that ranged from 125lbs to 178lbs.,,,and 7 adult females that ranged from 90 lbs to 115 lbs. (information from the University in Missuoula)

Personally, I think a dog with you is the best protection against both cats and bears. They will warn you and give you time to react. For cats particularly, they are ambush hunters do not like to be detected before they strike. For bears, a dog (even a small dog) will create a distraction so you have a bit more time to react.

I carry on our farm, and I carry when I hike, as we have quite a few bears and some cougars. (Enough cougars that F&W has "emergency" hunts so it can allow dogs) I always take both a pistol and a dog when I go. Usually the dog will run them off (bears do not like dogs), occationally the noise of a shot (not at the animal) will get them running...fortunately, I have never been forced to shoot to kill either out of season.

Oh, Ideal shot placement (if possible) behind the ear, out the eye..
 
@Purgatory I didn't mean that as an indictment, rather as an observation of what has become accepted as "true". My point also applies to deer as well as other critters. Where deer aren't kept under control via hunting they transform from Bambi (cute) to Godzilla (destructive pests). Same for wolves. Protect them, do not hunt them. They have a population explosion and become a threat to ranchers' livestock. Same for sea lions. They sink docks and boats, crap all over everything, and screw up the salmon runs (they gut salmon to get the eggs, which they love). My indictment is against do-gooding fools whose attempts at managing wildlife populations often create more problems than they solve.

And now..... back to our regularly scheduled program.
 
@Purgatory I didn't mean that as an indictment, rather as an observation of what has become accepted as "true".

I gotcha, Race. And I agree.

Anyone living in the Northwest, which is where you are I believe, is aware of the "Rewilding of America" in those areas and the massive increase in the Wolf population.

I've heard that it's caused so much havoc for the citizens in those areas, and the natural order of things, that local law enforcement has an unspoken rule about dealing with the Wolves.

It is referred to as S.S.S. (Shoot, Shovel and Shut-up).
 
As Jerry Clower would say Just shoot up amongst us and give one of us some relief. That coon he poked with a stick turned out to be a Linx, a suped up wildcat.
 
If you include Canada, the stats show that there is about 1 death per year in North America due to Mountain Lion attacks, and about 6 non-fatal attacks on humans reported per year. So yes, it is unlikely you will be attacked by a Mountain Lion, unless you are in or near a wilderness area where almost all of the attacks take place. People have driven them off with rocks and sticks and such, but I personally would like something faster and more reliable. Also, any predator that regards humans as viable prey does need to be dealt with. As a deterrent, dogs are a good idea, as Mountain Lions interact with canines (wolves, coyotes, feral dogs) in a negative manner.
 
I would think that if you and a friend were attacked by a cougar, he would be too close to defend yourself. Unless you are lucky.

I would think if a big cat were to strike your friend first, it would be almost impossible to get a shot. The cat does not stand over the prey and chew. And your friend will not let it. You will see nothing but hair, clothes, claws, and dirt and leaves. Remember, this a cat. If necessary they will use the hind claws.

I would think you would have to get awful close, even point blank, to get a shot.
 
This is one of the few times that I would rather use bear spray or some form of mace. Quite a few hikers do carry a spray can of the stuff when in bear country. If the cat is still in range after that then shoot to your hearts content but it is not likely to stick around. The poor soul that just got chewed up and then maced is gonna be pissed but will have a better chance than if they were chewed and shot. The only good outcome here is to come out alive.
Please dont mace me for this post its just the best I got untill the real thing comes along and messes up the best laid plans with blind panic and a little dose of adrenaline.
T
 
Go ahead and carry if you choose. Bear spray is cheaper, lighter and very effective. If a cat grabs you by the head or neck, you'll have a slim chance of escaping. Most victims are taken to the ground with a hit that they often describe as being hit by a truck. Those who do survive attacks by mountain lions are most often with someone else who beat the cat off.

But if a firearm makes you feel more comfortable, by all means take it.

Year U.S.A. and Canada California
# of Attacks # of Deaths # of Attacks # of Deaths
1991 4 2 0 0
1992 4 1 1 0
1993 3 0 2 0
1994 9 2 3 2
1995 3 0 1 0
1996 6 1 0 0
1997 7 1 0 0
1998 9 0 0 0
1999 6 1 0 0
2000 8 0 0 0
2001 7 1 0 0
2002 5 0 0 0
2003 2 1 0 0
total 73 10 7 2
Average per year 5.6 0.8 0.5 0.2


Sorry the columns got messed up. Hope you can figure it out.
 
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hermannr: You're right. A lot of the guys I backpack with in national forests bring dogs. Most wild animals avoid dogs like the plague, and they make great camp guards, especially the smarter ones like shepherds. For that reason, though, they are illegal in almost all National Parks and most federally-protected wildernesses.

scaatylobo: Hey, I carry too, I'm just saying, mountain lions don't warrant the same approach as a bear (or human) and, frankly, just aren't a real issue.

Furncliff: My Beretta 950 is actually lighter than bear mace, even with 9 rounds :D I do still carry mace in grizzly country, since I'm not sure .25 will deter a grizzly.
 
With wild lands being more and more infringed upon by our ever expanding cities, wild animal attacks are consistently rising in many areas. As we move into their territories, they treat us like they would treat any other animal our size.

Well, adult humans are not small in comparison to mountain lions, and we probably seem even bigger since we stand upright. Although some of the animals they prey upon are large (e.g. mule deer), generally speaking mountain lions avoid humans because we usually do not resemble (through appearance or movement) what they'd typically consider prey. If this were not true, then I think that there would be a lot more attacks than there actually are.

Small children who wander away from adults by themselves may be an exception, however, because they look like easy pickings. In addition, if a mountain lion were desperately hungry, then it may try to kill and eat just about anything that moves. And of course, behaving like prey in some way, such as getting scared and running away, could trigger predation as well. Aside from these causes, some individual mountain lions may be less picky than others when it comes to menu selections, treating us as they would any other animal, as you pointed out--individuals that exhibit this trait (they're all different, just like us) are typically hunted down and killed by rangers in order to prevent further predation on humans. My point is that it's not typical, although it does happen occasionally.

One situation that I've heard of often enough to ponder many times over the years is this scenario:

A couple are hiking and one is attacked by a mountain lion. The other does everything they can to scare, beat, fight it off, but the wild cat is in kill mode and almost impervious to distraction or pain.

It varies with the individual cat, its circumstances, and the general circumstances of the incident--sometimes they're easy to scare or beat off, while at other times you'd swear that it was a personal vendetta as opposed to merely a surprise lunch date (often easily canceled).

Most often the cat is latched onto the victim's face (covering the nose and mouth) or neck (throat or back of neck) and has no intention of releasing its bite until the victim expires.

Adult humans have big, round heads while mountain lions have relatively small mouths, so it's difficult for them to kill us with a head bite (although we could get our faces chewed off regardless :uhoh:). These cats like to attack the back of the neck, so what the victim needs to do, if possible, is guard that area in particular while his/her buddy is trying to get the cat off.

In this type of instance, I have always wondered, if I was carrying a firearm, just where would I shoot the animal in order to force it to let go of the victim as quickly as possible.

Remember: A head shot would put the victim at great risk in this scenario, yet time is of the essence.

I'd treat the mountain lion virtually the same way I would treat a human predator, attacking its most sensitive, vulnerable body parts. Going for its eyes will usually do the trick--put a stick in them if you can. If you have pepper spray, then use that--it hurts them just like it hurts us (mammals in general--it's birds that are immune).

If you have a pistol, then a head shot would indeed be risky for a variety of reasons (e.g. fast movement combined with proximity to the victim, a skull that may sometimes deflect a bullet just like with humans), so I'd suggest, like many others here, a shot to the heart and lungs (preferably not in the direction of the human victim to avoid overpenetration issues). As for ammo (not that anybody asked ;)), definitely use hollow-points unless the caliber is weak. Anything that works well enough on a human should work well enough on mountain lions.

Seriously? All reason and direction would fly out the window when you have a cougar clamped to your head. You will be doing well to draw, and realize that you are shooting the animal and not yourself at all.

Thinking that one might be shooting oneself? :confused: Anybody who is THAT prone to panic probably shouldn't be trusted with firearms (at least in defensive situations). :eek:

They are the strongest cat in the world for their weight.

Mountain lions are the best jumpers (among the big cats) with their powerful hind legs, and are exceptionally quick at pouncing, but I think that jaguars (specifically their jaws) and leopards (specifically their front legs) are stronger per weight in other respects. Overall, mountain lions are one of the scariest of the big cats because they're SO sneaky and pounce SO quickly (often from above), but fortunately for us they're not all that powerful, and tend to keep away from humans.

If he latches to your neck, I strongly doubt you will be able to do much of anything.

It depends on the specific cat and how much it wants to eat you. Most are unwilling to risk their eyesight just for a meal, so tearing and poking at their eyes is one possibility. Having a buddy beating the crap out of it and/or shooting it is another (mountain lions naturally don't like to be attacked or outnumbered).

On the other hand, if the mountain lion takes you completely by surprise (not uncommon) and gets a really good bite on your neck (sometimes they do, and sometimes they struggle), then yeah, you're probably dead. :uhoh:

No, I really didn't intend to sound 'Green' with that statement. I was only laying down a premise for my question so as to convey the reality of the issue and its application to the average person reading this almost anywhere in the U.S.

"Green" or otherwise, I think it is undeniable that human habitations have been encroaching on wilderness areas more and more (and often in ways that divide the wilderness), with increasing population density. It is also true that the populations of large predators have been growing in many areas, due to being protected by law. Naturally, having more people close to more predators will increase the absolute number of attacks.

Males can run 8 feet long and 180 lbs. I exaggerated just a touch for effect.

There is nothing wrong with accounting for worst-case scenarios--anybody who owns firearms for personal and/or home defense is doing just that. A few mountain lions are really big, even more than 200 lbs. I think the biggest ever found was around 300 lbs.

Regardless, they can drag off 200-400 lbs of incapacitated prey with ease.

Mule deer can get that big on occasion, hence the pouncing from behind with no warning and biting the back of the neck thing we get with mountain lions. Cats tend to be sneaky in general, of course, but these guys are real buggers in that regard. :)

I have read victims' accounts of only being able to move enough to gouge at the eyes or yank on the ears. Usually to no avail.

They probably weren't doing it hard enough--most people are pretty wimpy at hurting other creatures (including other humans). Whether it's with firearms or one's bare hands, a successful defense starts with the right mindset, namely the willingness and determination to cause tremendous physical harm to another living being (only when justified, of course, and only until the threat is over).

But, most certainly, there is no hard fast rule of how it would play out.

That's the thing about aggression between animals (including humans, even with firearms). Believe it or not, I've even seen a video of a mountain lion (not actually a lion, obviously, but a cougar or puma) killing a much larger, more powerful male African lion in a fight (why they were kept together is still a mystery). :what: It got under the lion and tore his abdomen up with its hind legs. :barf:

This is exactly what I was pondering. I have seen video of wild cats, lions, etc., that are so enthralled in the mental 'kill-mode' that almost no amount of damage to the cat's body had any effect at all.

That could happen, too, which is why it's a good idea to carry a gun or knife, even if it's unlikely that they'll be needed.
 
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......it's a good idea to carry a gun or knife, even if it's unlikely that they'll be needed.

And I would certainly carry both, myself.

Anyone heading into the wilderness without a good knife is really missing out on a very essential tool for many tasks, not to mention any measure of defense it may present.

I believe I'd carry my Ka-Bar and a Glock 20 10mm just for my own personal comfort. (Of course, as we all know, if I were accosted by two large dogs and an angry owner, I'd just let the dogs gnaw on me a bit and the owner verbally and/or physically assault me. -So as not to go to Prison for defending myself, of course.)

Then I'd pack some quality Bear Spray, invite my buddy, who would hopefully be armed as well, and load my faithful Lab into the truck and head out for a leisurely hike in Wildcat territory.
 
if walking as a couple, i would assume you would be close together...if youre that close to the mountain lion at the time of the attack, i would go for a head shot from the side, even if you physically had to place the barrel of your gun against its head
This. I would point right at it's head. Quickly. Bang. And again. A wild animal can do a lot of damage in a short time. Sure would suck to kill the animal and still have your companion (spouse, kid, whatever...) die.

I believe that the wilderness is where I am most likely to need a gun. We don't have Grizzlies in AZ, but we do have Mountain Lions and yes, I am wary in remote areas with my family and small kids especially.
 
KITTY! *GLOMP*

On a serious note, I'd aim for the head or ribcage area, just like on a human and I would definitely be carrying a rifle or shotgun. If a rifle, then I might even use the bayonet if I fear shooting my friend. A shotgun would be easier. Step 1: place shotgun on side of target's chest. Step 2: Pull trigger.
 
I possible I would use a large blade [ yes I always carry one ] to sever the neck causing fast bleed out.

If you're thinking about getting all stabby-stabby with a big cat, might I suggested the WASP compressed air knife? Sure it costs as much as a decent revolver, but you're gonna stab a giant cat. This is a special occasion and you need a special knife.

Blow its guts out next time you stab it.
 
The most danger is to people hiking or running alone.

I haven't heard much about this since I moved to OK, but when I was living out west the cats were known to sneak up behind a jogger and clamp onto the jogger's neck. That's pretty much a done deal.
 
With wild lands being more and more infringed upon by our ever expanding cities, wild animal attacks are consistently rising in many areas." That statement is straight out of the Green handbook.
Whats wrong with that? Its not manly to be green? Personally I LOVE to hunt, hike and fish, and I hope that my children's children get to have the same type of experiences that I did. It is fact, cities are expanding, we are consuming more, and it is bound to affect the ecosystems that we enter to pursue the activities we hold dear to our hearts. Don't be buffaloed into thinking that "green" thinking is for pansies...it is quite the opposite. Sportsmen and women of all people should be the biggest damned tree huggers on the planet, you do enjoy the outdoors right?? Sorry, rant done.

Back on target, I would trust my instincts (they have been honed by millions of years of evolution) and do whatever it took.
 
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If you're thinking about getting all stabby-stabby with a big cat, might I suggested the WASP compressed air knife? Sure it costs as much as a decent revolver, but you're gonna stab a giant cat. This is a special occasion and you need a special knife.

Blow its guts out next time you stab it.

M6T090811_1.jpg

Or one of these could be real handy. Non double edged also, so not
the legal worries. Slim profile easy to carry an 1/4" thick.
Zone tempered so it won't break.
Perhaps applied up under the cats mouth it would extend into the brain pan and hopefully help a person to survive rather than die a horrible death.
 
I live in North Texas and often see Bobcats and Coyotes in places that make me do a double-take. It's pretty common for small children and pets to be snatched by Coyotes--sometimes right in front of the parents/owners.

I'm not sure what your definition of "common" is but if one goes by the dictionarie's that statement is absurd.

I'm going to take issue with one premise in this scenario. "With wild lands being more and more infringed upon by our ever expanding cities, wild animal attacks are consistently rising in many areas." That statement is straight out of the Green handbook. *I* submit that the problem is the current and/or future restriction on hunting the beasties to keep their numbers in check.

Care to define "in check"? Are you seriously saying that we should force cougars to go extinct? I suppose we should exterminate all dogs too given far more people die or are seriously injured from them on annual basis than bear or big cat attacks. Have you bothered to even look at the statistics of cougar related fatalities? If those numbers justify extinction then we've got a whole lot of other species to exterminate as well. Hmm, eliminate all of something to prevent said thing from causing deaths...where have i heard that before?

If believing in wildlife conservation makes me green then so be it. How so many people have been convinced that nature conservation is a bad thing is mind boggling.

Hunting cats with dogs was outlawed because its cruel and disgusting. Not to reduce the number of cats killed. And before it's asked, yes i am a hunter but was raised that one eats what they shoot.

The vast majority of predator attacks are done by old or weak animals who are desperate. With bears it is often also a result of getting to close to a mother's cubs. Droughts often increase the number of human/widlife encounters as well. The fact is all of these animals still have a fear of humans. When they do attack it is because a situation has caused a high level of desperation.

In reality if a cougar or other predator is attacking a fellow hiker the best place to shoot is into the ground so as not to risk hitting the other person. The sound will cause the animal to flee immediately.
 
HGHUNTR- Read the rest of my comments. I say the statement is "Green" because they blame it on expanding urban boundaries. In Oregon that's definitely NOT the case because of laws prohibiting the expansion of urban growth boundaries. The opposite is true here with the government trying to drive us all into the cities so there's more "wild" spaces. I find that ludicrous since 92% of this state is unpopulated by people.

I have hunted and fished my whole life. There's a difference between being a responsible steward of wildlife so that all may enjoy, and being a Green/treehugger who places the "rights" of animals over humans.
 
JustinJ- "Care to define "in check"? Are you seriously saying that we should force cougars to go extinct? I suppose we should exterminate all dogs too given far more people die or are seriously injured from them on annual basis than bear or big cat attacks. Have you bothered to even look at the statistics of cougar related fatalities? If those numbers justify extinction then we've got a whole lot of other species to exterminate as well. Hmm, eliminate all of something to prevent said thing from causing deaths...where have i heard that before?"

Your comment is over-the-top rhetoric. I never said exterminate them. In check means so many animals per so many square miles as required by the species to maintain a healthy population. That number to be determined by wildlife bio's who study these things and hopefully know what they are talking about.

As I've already stated, if there are too many animals they will spread out in search of territory to occupy. In the case of cougars that means interaction with people and livestock. In my area we've had cougars on golf courses, hung up on a fence, seen eating someone's dog in town, and the neighbor behind me lost a goat to a cougar last month. Our territory (human) isn't growing, but it sure seems that the cougar's is.
 
Dogs and goats are made of meat, cougars eat meat. These types of interactions are bound to happen, and are not the fault of the predator or prey, its just nature. Sure it sucks if it's your goat, but that nature.

BTW our boundaries are expanding, with an increasing populace, where are these additional humans living?
 
HG- High density housing inside the growth boundaries. To my knowledge there hasn't been a new house built in my community in the last decade because of land use rules. I don't know what the urban sprawl is like where you're at.

True, cats are predators and they need to eat. My point being that I've been here for going on 30 years and only in the last five has there been all these "incidents" involving cougars, and they seem to be increasing in frequency.
 
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