Protection/family dog

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Well, I'm partial to German Shepherds, having bred and raised them for years, as well as competing in Schutzhund sport for many years. I've never seen one that wasn't good with children, even the "tough" ones we use for training and police work.

But, IMHO, there are other good options:

Boxers- are generally really nice, calm yet protective.
Most Mastiff breeds- are also good around the house, but good protectors.
Dobermans and Rottweilers - are a crap-shoot...there are some very nice ones but they've been bred poorly in the US, so not a good choice unless you are good at picking the right temperment.
Malinois - (see my comments in the other thread)...Many of these are nice, but be careful, they've been heavily bred in Europe for Police work, and can be a handful for the average person, and a few are downright psychotic. They are very active dogs, which can cause problems.
Bulldogs- mostly nice dogs, but again there's some that aren't the best pets out there

Best way to gauge temperment of pups is to see both parents, and spend some time with them seeing how they react around people... I also prefer to choose pups that are 12-14 weeks old, but most breeders wanna get rid of them sooner. I can gauge temperment much better when they are a little older.

One more thing to consider: Many insurance companies will not insure you if you own certain breeds of dogs...Each has a list of breeds that they won't insure...I have Farmers which doesn't (yet) discriminate...But, just to be safe, all my dogs (even though they bear a HUGE resemblance to German Shepherds) are registered as "mixed breeds".

You might wanna contact the ADOA (American Dog Owners Association) for more info. I believe they will give you a list of insurance companies, and the breeds they have "banned". They can probably give you lots of other information on various breeds. I don't pay any attention to the AKC anymore, as they've actually been responsible for alot of bad breeding practices, and have "ruined" many of the breeds.
 
"One more thing to consider: Many insurance companies will not insure you if you own certain breeds of dogs...Each has a list of breeds that they won't insure...I have Farmers which doesn't (yet) discriminate...But, just to be safe, all my dogs (even though they bear a HUGE resemblance to German Shepherds) are registered as "mixed breeds"."



That's very true. I saw one insurance form that basicly said owning Pitbulls, German Shepards, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Chows & a few others I can't remember, would make your homeowners insurance bill go up significantly. I wouldn't want a pitbull, rottweilers, doberman, Boxer or Mastiff anyway. They scare me. German shepard maybe. If I get another dog, I'm going with collie if I can find a place that will let me adopt one.
 
Hey - wait a minute. Call me dense, but does "bully breed" refer to "bulldog" breeds - pit bulls, APBT, SBT, etc? I was thinking it referred to dogs that can have aggressive traits in the breed - pit bulls, Rottweillers, etc. That why I wondered if Dobermans were referred to as a "bully breed".

Is it bulldog-type breeds?
 
dfaugh,

A GSD would be my very first pick for my next dog, if it weren't for the shedding. We would keep him inside and I've heard you can stuff pillows with the amount of hair they shed. Our current dog weighs ~30 pounds and blows his coat twice a year. Man, we find hair everywhere.

I love GSDs, though. They just about epitomize the picture of a "family dog" to me.
 
Bully breed is a reference to the bulldog breeds. I use bully because its more accurate than saying "pitbull" which isn't actually a breed at all. Pitbull is a just a catch all when the news wants to scare the people with word of another vicious pitbull attack. :rolleyes:
A good site is www.bulldogbreeds.com
The breeds listed there are what I would call bully breeds or as stated earlier; bulldog breeds. The name rises from the development of these dogs for bull-baiting.

I don't know where gmarshall got the idea that bulldog type breeds have health problems due to bad breeding. The opposite is actually more true. While they do have some (and what dog doesn't) it really isn't an issue. The one exception I can think of might be the english bulldog which is really kidna screwed up from people breeding for a look rather than performance traits.

Vendetta, there is no reason to be scared of a bully breed. Media hype would lead you to believe there is an epidemic of pitbull maulings when it just ain't true.
 
"Vendetta, there is no reason to be scared of a bully breed. Media hype would lead you to believe there is an epidemic of pitbull maulings when it just ain't true."


I would still prefer to ere on the side of caution in this case. Besides, I like dogs with long hair. Last bulldog I saw was ugly:barf: .
 
There are some disreputable breeders of American Bulldogs that have dogs with hip dysplagia problems. But if you buy from a reputable breeder, this should not be a problem. As I've stated in earlier posts, I'm a big fan of the American bulldogs. They are as good a family dog as I've ever seen. People shy away from bully dogs because they have never been around them, and believe the horror stories they have heard. While I don't doubt some are true, it is the owner, not the breed, that has been the problem in those stories. Regardless of the fact that my AB can drag my 42" cut lawn tractor across the yard (while in gear) without "breaking a sweat", he wouldn't hurt a fly, and is the most even tempered dog I've ever owned.
 
I was talking with my vet this morning about this thread(my MiniPin was having his stitches out) and he said that one thing people need to remember is that "ALL dogs will bite". Some dogs are more prone to it than others. Dogs bred originally as guard dogs, bull baiting dogs, etc are much more likely to have an involuntary bite response if ever hurt or frightened. This is no big deal unless what they happen to bite turns out to be the face or arm of a small child. So I guess it comes down to how much risk are you willing to take. I would say it is not worth having a large dog around a small child if there was any chance it would maim, disfigure or kill my child. His recommendation was "No dog for any kid under 8 yrs old" but he said if you have one around a small child he suggested a breed less likely to bite but big enough to take rough play and with a stature that will not allow them to shake the child if they ever did...like a Basset Hound.
 
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Mastiff was not on the dangerous dog list for insurance companies last time I checked.

Chows...I've owned 3...all were sweet dogs, but I wouldn't trust one to a small child.

Any kind of sheperd dog could prove problematic as they have that "herding" instinct (this is what I've been told) and may try to "corral" small children....not necassarily hurting them, but it could be dangerous. Also dogs that are good police breeds do NOT necassarily make good family dogs. Especially what the police call "bad dogs". Think of a heat seaking land shark with teeth....they are used to clear suspected burglers still in a building. Just set a couple of these loose and wait for the screaming and barking.

Mastiffs are truly gentle giants, you should meet some. Another gentle giant is an Irish Wolfhound, lazy, huge and very docile. So docile in fact that they are not likely to engage an intruder unless specifically taught to do so. It's almost like they are the hippy of dog breeds. Naturally passive.
 
I don't know where gmarshall got the idea that bulldog type breeds have health problems due to bad breeding. The opposite is actually more true.
Click to expand...

Look here:

http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html

They maintain statistics for hip and elbow displasia and several other health problems.

The #1 dog for hip displasia is the bulldog. 73% of those examined had it. The American bulldogs were 15th on the list at about 32% (top 10%). American bulldogs are #7 on the list for elbow displasia with 19% of those examined showing it. These statistics are actually skewed low as they are only of those animals whose owners had them examined. Usually those who had good breeding.

I think those numbers suggest health problems.

One common breed that has few genetic problems is the collie. They do have a high incidence of eye problems but that can be detected in the puppies before they are weaned (hip and joint problems cannot).

As a herding breed they have protective instincts but are much lower in energy than say their belgian counterparts. They suffer from none of the negative stigma, from insurance companies or otherwise, that some other breeds do. If you don't like the long hair (rough collie) you can have a short-haired (smooth collie) which is the same breed.
 
Wow - Boxers are fabulous, aren't they?!

My folks had 8 - yes, eight, over time. I grew up with four of 'em. Obviously a big part of my upbringing.

One thing going against the Boxer though is their life span and medical issues. Can be a very expensive breed medically. Seen my folks spend thousands of dollars on their upkeep, especially when getting into the older years. I'd love to own a Boxer myself right now, but the medical costs I remember from my folks days always sets me back in my seat.

Instead I now share our home with a breed that acts 110% Boxer, without all the medical upkeep. If he had cropped ears and tail and a shorter nose he'd truly be a Boxer. He came into our family when I met the little lady that I'm now married to as he was hers. When I first saw this dog I said "What the...?! That's a Boxer, but it's not! What is he??!!".

Are ya ready for this? He's Max, and he's a 75 pound, all muscle, American Staffordshire Terrier:

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Terrier eh? As in the Pit Bull Terrier family of dogs? You got it. AST's are not the traditional Pit Bull looking or acting dog though. The physical characteristics of their face looks much more like Boxer than Pit Bull. Other Characteristics? Exactly like a Boxer. This dog is so loving and awesome with everyone he comes in contact with - including our whole family of which we have two boys - 14 and 8. God they love him, and he loves them right back. Excellent with other dogs too, from the smallest little yap-yap, to Boxers, and everything in-between. Yet he's got enough bark that anybody who don't belong around most surely would change their mind about approaching if not wanted around.

AST's actually have a wonderful overall temperament. Check out some of the better web sites that describe different dogs and you'll be surprised at what you read.

Make sure you take the time needed with these breeds too. Teach 'em to be mean, and they'll be mean. Teach 'em to be excellent family members and you'll get exactly that. Time for lots of walks and physical activity is very important. A couple of young sons to rough-house with him in the back yard is a perfect deal over here.

I truly think I got the best of both worlds - A Boxer without the medical bills.
 
gmarshall, the fact that it lists "bulldog" as being numero uno without saying what kind of bulldog it is kinda makes me doubt that list a bit. It wouldn't surprise me though, if it was the English Bulldog. Bad breeding (breeding for looks) has really ruined that breed.

Nortonics, thats a pretty good sized for an AmStaff. Good looking dog though.

Since we're posting pics.
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These are my dogs
Sara is a little over 1 year old and is mostly APBT by the look of her. She is a pound puppy, so there are no papers and I don't want to call her a purebreed. She is however, a total sweetheart with a fantastic temperment and the bully attitude I love so much.

Guinness is another shelter dog, but he is purebred beagle. He is just over 2 years old and is an absolute hound dog. He's attentive to training for about 10 minutes and then something will catch his nose and thats all she wrote. Good dog though.

They get along phenomenaly and both act as alarm dogs. Guinness is a little more vocal than Sara and a bit less trusting of strangers although I doubt he'd ever attack an invader. Sara seems to love everybody but has never been put in a situation where she might have to defend person or property. She does have an aversion to some other dogs though. A neighbor of mine had a great looking male APBT. Sara got one look at him and was ready to go start a fight. Something about that dog just set her off.
 
Get whatever sort of dog suits you. If you want to be dead certain what the dog will be like, get a rescue dog that is older than 18-24 months. Dogs mature physically at 12 months and mentally between 1 1/2 - 2 years of age. You can have an experienced dog trainer temperment test the dog to determine if it will be a good pick for your home.

I own an American Staffordshire Terrier and an American Pit Bull Terrier. One thing any experienced owner will tell you is that these dogs can become animal aggressive at 18 months or so. When they reach MENTAL maturity. Things like socialization, living environment and training play a part, but so does genetics. It's not just nature, or just nurture, but nature plus nurture that determines the temperment of the dog.

But, if you are looking for a short haired or smooth coated dog to be a security system there are lots of good choices. Surf the AKC site for a general idea of what kind of dog suits your lifestyle, laid back or high energy. Your living situation, apartment or home, big yard or small. Then check with breed clubs. Most breed clubs perform breed rescue, where you can rescue at a fraction of a purebreed puppy's cost a mature dog needing a good home. YMMV, but an adult rescue dog is the only type of dog I would pick.

Good luck and I hope you find your new best friend!
 
I have dogs

We just breed a Slavic dog to a copperhaus dog. Pups in just a couple of weeks. As far as dogs not being defensive weapons.

My malinois is. As are most the dogs we train. If you want to see the pups. I will send pics. Or of the parents. You can also look up cooperhaus kennels in SJ.

Brent will be glad to answer your questions. Our dogs as have
, as most REAL protection training kennls dogs have, saved lives.

Our dogs can play all day in a kindergarten, and two seconds later , take down a 200 lbs man.

Most breeds are not effective for this type of work. As most, read AKC breeders dogs, bloodlines are not able to be stable enough. Check out Baden, mar-ken kennels in Santa cruz, Any questions, or if I can help, PM or email.
 
My chocolate Lab. was a bomb-sniffing dog in Pups for Peace, but she failed the explosive detection program, and she is the best dog I ever had. (And I had dozens)

I highly recommend saving a pooch from a shelter, or to adopt a dog from the Military or police.

Best,
 

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If you get ashelter dog. You dont know what you are getting. And it might not be stable.

Retired mil dogs are normally old. Or broken. Find a good WORKING DOG breeder. there are lots. I have malinois, my wife has a female pit,she hits hard and is stable. But was much harder to train. Not to bite. To not bite. And to release once she is on the sleave.

You would not rely on a sketchy fire arm to protect your family. Why would you want a dog that might be.

Like I said., we have dogs for sale. the parents will do bite work right in front of you. And tracking, and off lead work, etc......... we have an OFA cert gaurantee, etc.
 
A dog is NOT a defensive weapon. It is a early warning system.
Click to expand...

Certainly this is true of most dogs. You can expect them to run off in the face of real danger, or wag their tails. If you *are* going to get a dog as a guardian, Sgt. Stevo is correct. Go to a quality working line breeder of European line GSD's or Malinois. And go in knowing that owning such a dog is a huge responsibility and will require training not only for the hund but for you.
 
I'd have no problem going with a shelter dog provided you actually observe the dog and wait a day or two before making a decision.

Both my dogs are pound pups and have been great. The beagle is a bit stupid...but he's a beagle and thats just how the breed is.

Pay attention and if you are looking at adoption (and I salute you if you do) just make sure the dog is right for you.
 
Note that there are breed specific rescue groups as well...I was founding member of the GSD rescue we have here (although we've taken dogs out of "high-kill" shelters as far away as Texas)...Their page is www.brightstargsd.org
 
I'm going to add my $.02 and say that while my dogs might look intimidating, you'd never get an aggressive reaction from them towards a human. Now IF a crook happend to bring his dog, or even a wild hog......I'll be cleaning up the mess for a week. My well bred APBTs are in no way a threat to people, but the ARE animal aggressive. Molly (in the pic below) will hit a hog like she was shot from a cannon, and hang on like a siamese twin:D She loves to hunt, but can not be around dogs that are not in her "pack". She runs 10' up an oak tree in my back yard to catch squirrels, and has run them down when they are unlucky enough to be in the open. The well bred APBT IMO is the best high drive, high energy, high affection, NON-gaurding breed bar none. If the door bell rings, or the door opens and the "beep, beep, beep" from the alarm sounds off they'll be there in seconds no matter where they are in the house.
You would not go wrong with a bully breed dog provided you knew what you were looking at. The AB is a great breed of dog, but don't choose one based on price-please.
Molly
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Diesel and myself watching TV
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Dogs from working kennels make great Working dogs, but they need the right owners. Sometimes these dogs end up in rescue or being rehomed because their need to have a job isn't satisfied by sitting on a couch "guarding" an empty house. I can point to a few GSD's from working lines who are looking for new homes. I don't know where you live, but there's an 18 month old Sable GSD in NJ who needs a new home. But look at what the current owner is saying. "Dakota is high energy, with a real good working drive. She would need an experienced German Shepherd handler that is also experienced with high energy dogs. She will challenge an easy-going leader and be a lot for them to handle." I'll bet the same can be said for Sgt Stevo's dogs. They need to have a job, they aren't couch potatos.

While your local animal shelter may have a dog cheap, Sgt Stevo is right, unless you really know what you're looking for you don't know what issues you are getting. The good rescue groups however, see lots of dogs and they try to place those dogs in homes where they will do well. As much as I would like a dog, my present situation won't allow it so I volunteer with a rescue group, most of the members have a number of GSDs each. The nice thing about rescue, at least the one I work with is that all issues are on the table. They don't like returns so they try real hard to match dogs with owners and not hide anything.
 
he is right. if I dont work my dogs, they will get nutty. A bored malinois, who is not in kennel, can make short work of most anything you own.

Until they mature. I did not think of this, as I love to work my dogs. And everybody elses. My Mal get worked twice a week, runs everyday, plays with my three year old and sleeps on our bed with us.

"MOst the time." I dont want you guys to get the wrong idea.
It is a shame about the bully breeds, they are amazing. But if Thugs and gangbangers loved poddles. There would be poodle killing someone on the news every night.

I have had and trained several, APBTs, Am staffs, Am bulldogs, etcs. American bulldogs are nice. They are good workers.
And freaken strong. if you get high energy and well trained dog. It is just like weapons we all own.

If you are not responsible, you will be held responsible. Some great dogs on here. I will send a couple of pics on Monday or tues.......

Malinois rescues are out there as well. They are the best of all Gods creatures in my mind. Except Irish Red headed wife types........
 
I have Scotties. They won't rip an intruder from stem to stern like some of the exotic giant breeds can but they are a very effective alarm system. No one can get close to the casa without them being aware, and notifying me.
I carry the ball from that point.
 
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