Rifle caliber for self defense

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Ive got a 16" mini-14, an sks, and if i need something harder hitting my #4 enfield and mossey 500 12ga are ready, plus various handguns. Indoors, hand guns for me, im afraid muzzle flash would be blinding from one of the carbines.
 
i would say a shotgun, or a 45 acp, as the best HD defence round. of course a handgun would be best, because its not so big
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I am not an expert, but I know that pretty much every credible expert around would agree that a handgun is not the best. Clint Smith demonstrated in GUNS magazine a while back that a carbine adds no more length to the presentation than a handgun does.
 
adds no more length to the presentation than a handgun does.
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I have a smallish house with old (pre50s) style narrow hallways, plus its dark as hell at night so i prefer a 40cal in my right hand and a flashlight in my left.
 
mini-30 with ten rounds of Magsafe.
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Uh-oh, not enough penetration to get to something vital. If you shoot someone and he finds out about it he's gonna be mad.

I keep Wolf Military Classic HP in my M-30 and SKS. Great terminal performance, similar to the best 308 loads. The 123 gr V-MAX loads are great also.

I've owned at least one 7.62x39 rifle for almost 20 years now. I used to feel that it was less effective than the 5.56 because of poor bullet performance. That has changed recently due to better bullets and now I'm a big believer in the cartridge.
 
7.62x39 is my choice, then I move up to 308. I have a loaded SKS at my back door. It has successfully defended me from several zombie coyotes. :eek::)

I know what THEY SAY the 223 is suppose to do. I know what I've seen it NOT do. If you like it, great, have fun. I don't like it or trust it.

I'll stick to my SKS's and AK clones.
 
Ratzinger_p38. :
My two-month old Kahr Carbine broke and had to go back to the factory :(. In your opinion, would such a (-Kahr-) C. ever be reliable enough to bet your life on, if taken care of and cleaned? Please be frank. It might be better to know now.

Always fired copper-jackets bullets, fresh from Remington boxes-went through about ten boxes (50 each: the barrel and other metal parts were cleaned each night). I now truly wish that I had compared more opinions before having bought this $700 copy of the original gun. Maybe when the right side of the bolt came up OUT of the slot (yes), it was a very unique fluke. Learning the terminology... It was bought in order to be fun, using low-priced ammo but could ALSO be an ok short-distance defensive weapon for the long-term. If the gun sent to me has any more problems, which are not my fault, it will be my first and last copy of the original M-1 Carbine: and will be sold at a financial loss. A small gunstore near here has an original Inland for sale-if it is still there ("Classic A***").
Maybe a 'GI' WW2 or Korean vintage M-1 C. would be better built and more reliable, as many claim. I lost the phone number for a good contact at the Kahr factory (how long before they contact us?).

On the subject of Ruger Mini 14's, would a .223 be about as good a weapon as the 7.62 X 39 at 20-50 feet? And is reliable Russian-caliber ammo (Wolf etc) about the same price as comparable discount .223? A gun dealer just told me that some Wolf is now made in Germany (west or east? Former BRD or DDR?).
I just test-fired a Ruger Mini 14 and an AK-type yesterday at a gun store's range. They let you shoot a used gun right there!
IF a very reliable Ruger Mini 30 were to be found with a wooden stock (like the Mini 14) AND bulk ammo could be bought at about the same price as bulk .223, I might be in the market for one soon, assuming that the more powerful ammo does not wear out the gun faster.

As I injected this question tonight into another topic on THR (and being new to most guns), wiggling the magazines into these two guns took a bit longer than with the M-1 Carbine. Could that not also affect your survival at a bad time?

R127: Your comments made a lot of sense. It would be helpful to read many more similar descriptions of trouble on the streets after a disaster. We live outside the city but go into town quite often (I might need to rescue my wife one day-were the very unlikely to happen: a short gun will be handy).
Any frank comments about these topics are most welcome. I look forward to them.
 
A reliable semi-auto rifle chambered for the .223 cartridge should suffice if it is loaded with frangible (fragmenting) ammo. I selected the .223 because it does not pose as great a hazard for overpenetration as a larger round such as the .30-30. The choice of a semi-auto design seems obvious since it allows for rapid, successive shots if they are needed.

Now for my "rant". On a shot-for-shot basis, the 12 gauge is hard to beat when loaded with buckshot or slugs. Is overpenetration a concern with the 12 gauge? Probably, but you possess greater power with this weapon. While a handgun generally possesses less power than a centerfire rifle or 12 gauge shotgun, it offers the virue of compactness, something than can not be dismissed out of hand. As I have stated about this topic before, each individual should research this matter carefully and arrive at answer comfortable to him/her. I can not overemphasize the need for through research in answering this important question.


Timthinker
 
I agree to a point with 54R, but I always considered it as a snipping round rather then something to be used in a rifle I would chose to defense.

I am a huge fan of .223 because of its smooth recoil and the variety of rifles offered in it. However, when specifically speaking can not rule out from my list the AKSU74 5.45x39 and off course the famous AK47. But if I have to chose one at this instant I would chose AKSU74 for its compactness and smooth recoil and comprable power to .223- not to forget its reliability since it can go without cleaning as long you want it to.
 
first one I can get my hands on is usually the best solution.

Course, currently serving as Home Security is my Norinco clone 1897; One unsecured movie action blank(the awesome loud ones with the big fireballs), one box of secured ammunition(Buck and Slug) and a full bayonet all within arm's reach.
If the situation calls for me to use a big fireball; I'll load the blank and warn the intruder; if not, I'll break out the box; course I don't want to put any holes in my newly painted walls.

Guess if I had to, the next accessable rifle is a SKS, I have a box of loaded 10rd clips, most of them are filled with Wolf Copperjacket hollowpoints; then I have norinco green box and white box ammo too.

Had you said handgun, I'd be royally boned :p my first handgun and the only one I have ammo for is a Type 14 nambu, LOL; so waste the money on expensive 8mm nambu or get shot? Hum... health bills arent too bad right? :D
BTW, 21 in 13 days!
 
Any centerfire rifle caliber will defend your home just fine provided you have both the opportunity and ability to use it. That being said the 5.56 is a NATO round and is often found in military-esque rifles that are comact and hold a lot of bullets; all four of which tend inspire confidence in the user.

The chances of you being killed by someone you don't know are extremely slim. It dose happen though. If one day bad men come to you home to take away the things that are most important to you and you are given the opportunity the obvious reaction is to attempt to call the police. If/when they come they will likely either have a 12 gauge shotgun or an AR-15. I have heard people reason that if they are calling the police and the police are going to bring a shotgun/AR-15" "Why not have one of those on hand just in case the police don't make it here in the next 5 or so seconds".
 
.30 carbine, followed by 7.62x39, 30-30 and .303 British loaded with Mk VII ball. I say that only because I don't own a full auto Thompson:)
 
I am begining to think that the age od the members at THR plays a big factor in choice they make....

MNW42...may I ask why would prefer a thompson when you can get MP5K? Just curious or is it collectors item, since I see you are fan of 303 as well. Although I would differ with on that and chose 303 Mark V.
 
.50BMG: lets you defend your home in a radius around it of 1.5 miles:p

srsly though...whatever I would use, it wouldnt be bigger than 7.62x39
 
IMO, it must be commonly available (as in WallyWorld), in use by police, the military, "tangos," and "enemies, foreign and domestic."

That means 5.56 NATO, 7.62.39, and perhaps 5.45x39 or 7.62 NATO. When WallyWorld is gone and we're bartering to survive, I don't want to have to scrounge to keep the post-Katrina gangs at bay.
 
Ignition Override said:
R127: Your comments made a lot of sense. It would be helpful to read many more similar descriptions of trouble on the streets after a disaster. We live outside the city but go into town quite often (I might need to rescue my wife one day-were the very unlikely to happen: a short gun will be handy).
Any frank comments about these topics are most welcome. I look forward to them.
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Living outside the city is guarantee of anything. I live in the country where there are more woods and cows than buildings and people. The vast majority of people who live in the area are white tradesmen with families. Not exactly gang country and things are generally peaceful and orderly. Things still do happen anyway. A while ago a black gang from the city broke into an old retired woman's trailer, gang raped her and left her for dead in an irrigation ditch. Besides selecting a quiet, isolated retirement community of mostly unarmed northerners as easy targets it was totally random. She had no money or anything to suggest wealth and there was zero possibility she could have had any personal contact with any of the criminal scumbags prior to the attack. As I recall it was 5 or 6 of them and this happened during ordinary times not during some disaster or other disruption.

You just can't take anything for granted anymore. Dog fighting and various drug operations are bringing gang crime into the countryside as is the massive illegal immigration influx. Heck, just look at the population growth. There is 30 to 40 percent more people in this country now then there was in the 70's and 80's when all those writers were telling people to move out of the cities. Some places are more crowded than others but there just isn't as much space to go around as there used to be. In 1960 there was around half as many people in the US. The dynamic has changed a lot in the past couple decades. That doesn't mean live every moment in fear either it just means be prepared to handle such extreme situations if they should happen. Don't wear the blinders so long that it's a big suprise when something does occur.

The biggest difference between being in the city and the country in bad times is the kinds of threats you will face. In the city you can get huge mobs like were seen in the LA riots. In the country it's a little different. You are more likely to get one or two car loads of looters or other opportunists like in the situation I described earlier. In the event of a NOLA-style major disaster you can expect massive evacuations that will bring scared, desperate unprepared people into your area. Many of them will start running out of gas and decide you have things they want. After Katrina a lot of people though they were going to do their charitable duty and help these people out. Often it went smoothly, often it did not. Be prepared to turn those people away unless you want to roll the dice. Pepper spray and beanbag rounds can be good for this kind of work. It's nonlethal in case you have to really use it but it's still very strong. A big scary dog or two also helps.

Even if you don't live along a major highway you still can't predict where traffic will be routed especially once broken down vehicles and other things start blocking off the primary evacuation routes and there is also people looking for a shortcut or who otherwise get lost. That's not the end of it either. FEMA and many state agencies will also be looking to loot your for food, water, fuel, shelter, etc. Good luck handling that. Try to look unimportant and bury some food the next time you do any midnight gardening. The 9 scariest words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help!"

If you might need to get your wife out of the city then there are a few things you should consider. You want to attract the least attention from the "authorities" as possible since they will be completely freaking out and causing more problems then they solve. This is standard for anything the government does. :rolleyes: Obviously carrying a gun around might draw their attention. Concealed carry will work as good then as it ever does but you will probably want more than a pistol, I would! You can go with a folding stock or you can put the rifle in a bag or both.

You are also likely to encounter a mob whether it is big or small. When the police want to break up a mob they use teargas. Pepper spray is available in 1lbs fogger units and bugbomb style grenade form and that is our equivalent.

It is likely that at some point you will encounter an obstacle your car or truck can't pass. Speed is life in those kinds of situations and walking out on foot is dead slow. Bring a secondary vehicle of some kind, bicycle, moped, dirt bike, billygoat ;). Anything beats walking. Heck, ride your dirt bike in if you can and chances are you won't need anything else.

It would be wise to have at least a level IIA ballistic vest because you have no way of knowing what stray bullet, thrown or falling object or who knows you might catch. A brain bucket is a good idea for the same reason. If you have to go in you want to stack the odds as much in your favor as possible, move so fast and be able to hit so hard there just isn't any contest. Not a time for half measures. Bring some friends if you can.

That btw is not wild speculation. After a storm a couple years ago my very elderly grandparents were completely isolated and cut off, no communications of any kind going in or out and the bridges and most of the roads were out. They lived in a good neighborhood in the middle of a very bad area and the family needed and wanted to make sure they were ok. Know the area and move fast.

I'd argue that a rifle for defense is very good to have in the city and a must anywhere if the chunk of land you live on is measured in several full acres or more.
 
True rifle caliber? I'd probably grab the SKS in 7.62x39 for speed, or my Remington 7600 Pump in .243 Winchester for accuracy.

Honestly though if I were doing a true "in the home" self defense I'd probably grab my CAS tuned Rossi 92 in .357 Magnum. Outside of my accurate range with that nice little carbine is probably outside a justifiable self defense claim.
 
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I'll go with the 5.56 in a semi-auto rifle platform, for 0m-300m.
I'll go with the .357mag in a Marlin 1894CP for a pistol/ rifle ammo commonality, for indoors(w/lightweight JHPs) & outdoors out to 200m(w/158grJSPs, which will also penetrate, through-n-through on both driver & passenger side car doors @100m, on most sedans & light trucks/suvs, yeah I've tried it on an LEA range that had donated vehicles)
 
outdoors out to 200m(w/158grJSPs, which will also penetrate, through-n-through on both driver & passenger side car doors @100m, on most sedans & light trucks/suvs, yeah I've tried it on an LEA range that had donated vehicles)
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Ya know, I've wondered about that. I've seen what the JSP round will do to a block of ice (frozen milk jug).
 
Most any lightweight semi-auto, with cartridge performance somewhere around .223...

AR, Mini, SKS or suchlike. In a true defensive situation, the odds are way against needing bunches of ammo; IMO the deal is to quickly correct for a miss or to handle a second or third bad guy.
 
In the city, even the suburbs, I see a lot of promise for a rifle pistol combo. especially if the person is not a "gun" person. I have a carbine in almost every pistol caliber I own. They are fun to shoot and make sense logistically, and they double or triple your effective range. If you go with a semi auto carbine I suggest you try for magazine compatibility also. Again it's just logistically sound.

However a pistol caliber carbine will never replace a true rifle. I'm not a a 223 fan, but at short range it can be very effect. I prefer the 7.62x39 for my intermediate cartridge. I keep a SKS loaded at my home. But I live in the country. My nearest neighbor is 1/4 of a mile away. MY gate is over 100 yards from my house.

When I live in the city my duty shotgun (870P) was next to the bed. There is just a psychological factor with pump shotgun. No the won't go "running into the night", but I have had them soil their paints.

Bottom line, a long arm works well in home defense. Just pick the one that best suits YOUR needs, and practice practice, practice.
 
Marlin shotgun... you mean their .410 levergun? That's for plinking rabbits and grouse. Even with buckshot it's the equivalent of shooting some low velocity roundball at an intruder. It might work, but it's not exactly plan A for most people. Use the .458 loaded with a reduced power lion killing softpoint, not the full power buff or elephant loads. Those expand fast and deliver enormous damage within torso depth of a modern human male.
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Yes that's what I mean. At ranges close enough to be defensive 3 triple 0 buckshot (36 cal.) can do quite a bit of damage. Even a load of smaller shot at very close range would be good. Realize of course I am talking extremely close range, and consider some of the handguns, ie those chambered to take 45 LC or .41 shotgun. The other reasons I chose this is that I am not now nor every will be proficent with a pump, I do not like to leave a semi Auto ready to go, my double barrels are too nice and expensive to be use in this manner.

I never bought it for this purpose, but for fun with my wife and son, and learned to realize potential of what is there.
 
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