Rott attack - on ME!

[silverlance]

The following is the email I sent yesterday to Black Bear, with some minor editing:

about an hour ago i was out walking my dog.

on the way back stinky stopped by a rose bush that he always sniffs and pees on because he likes to piss off the rott that lives inside.

well, this time, the gate wasn't completely closed, probably because it's dark and raining and the owner didn't realize that he hadn't actually shut it, and the rott squeezed around the gate and rushed out at us (this is the same rott that i've talked about rushing us on some threads). stinky rushed him too, i hit on the mag951 and tried to use the light to blind him. i got him real good in the eyes, and then he rushed at the light. so i hit him really hard with the head, i should have switched to the base but i didn't have time.

the whole time i was yelling and screaming and stinky was between the rott and i. i hit the rott one more time and then the owner came running out with his cucumber again and started beating the rott. then the rott broke off and the owner managed to drag the rott back into the house. i ran off right away, didn't even stop to get mad, and then when i got home my hands were shaking from the cold and events that i dropped my light while i was fumbling for my keys.

well anyway, i'm at home now, and my 951 is all in pieces. when i got into my room to look at the light the glass had shattered and when i took off the head to see if i could remove the glass i discovered that a piece of plastic had broken off of the housing of the lamp assembly. all these little metal pieces came tumbling out, and that was when i realized that this had bene a dumb thing to do, i should have left it alone.

strangely enough though, the battery carriers (remember i've been so concerned about the carriers breaking on impact?) survived completely intact.

i'm convinced that this light really saved if not my life, at least my dogs' (he didn't even get scratched!).

I would like to buy replacement parts and work, this mag light has paid for itself in medical bills alone.

www.flickr.com/photos/88442256@N00/

Black Bear has since emailed me back and told me that he's shipping me a new lens free of charge and include instructions on how to reassemble.

Again, for all those who don't know already, this is an example of superior integrity and craftsmanship. I am absolutely certain that had I not been able to blind the rott within the first 3 seconds, robbing it of its night vision and enabling my 80 lb dog to take on a 130ish pound rott, I would be talking about when my stitches are coming out today - or discussing my "options" with the veternarian.

This is also another case of why Surefire is not always the best choice - certainly the Surefire's lens probably would not have shattered on the multiple impacts because of its dimunitive size, but the wisdom in trying to hit an angry, unblinded (surefire "upgraded" bulb is only about 90 lumens vs 951) rott with a 6" vs 14" baton is highly debatable.

 

[english kanigit]

Hmmmmm, BTDT. I was a delivery driver for a deli.

My mag light only got used for that once with nary a scratch once the dust settled. It wasn't terribly bright but it made a heck of a bludgeon.

Any info on this light?


Whoops, sorry to be rude! Great job getting out of there with your hide (and your best buddy's) intact.

 

[silverlance]

it's called the MAG 951

and it's made by this THR guy named Black Bear.
search for him. it's a mag-lite converted to blast out 951 lumens vs 30. its so bright that if you looked directly into the bulb you would really hurt your eyes. not pain hurt, physical damage hurt.

 

[Lupinus]

Call animal control and have that animal put down. If the owner is to stupid to do it you should get the city to before its some little girl that get mauled while walking fluffy

 

[Ryder]

Cucumber?

 

[Psssniper]

Is this the first documented defensive use of the 951??
Good job and quick thinking on your part. Was the damage to the light
from whacking the dog or dropping the light at your door?

 

[silverlance]

well

to be honest, I don't know. I was pretty, well... I wasn't exactly in shock; it was more like, "Holy Moly, I can't believe that just happened... wait till the THR folks hear about this... -CRASH!-.... oh, phooey..."

It's very likely it was from contact with Exo's (the dog's name) noggin, because I hit it with the head instead of base end. Usually I go jogging with my pinkie on the switch for precisely this reason, but this time I wanted to play with the beam because it was misty. When there' s a little mist and it's dark the 951 puts out this really long white beam, and it sort of looks like I'm swinging a pillar of white fire

I know a kid who has a boxer. He accidentally hit it with his car - heard its head go thump as he backed into it at gunned his car out of the car port at about 15mph - and when he jumped out to mourn his lost friend he found the dog just sitting there in the middle of the road. apparently they have pretty thick skulls.

...

anyway, this is the second time that so-called "friendly and sweet" rott has gone after me. talking to the neighbors about it today, they all apparently think that the owner's nuts. He never walks the dog, keeps it locked up in the yard, makes his 60yro wife work while he plays golf, and believes that leashes are unecessary because he got such a good rapport with his dog. I agree with them - i also remember a few months ago when he had a yard sale and sold absolutely nothing because not only was everything junk, he insisted that they were all antiques and demanded laughable prices. I recall in particular a crappy oil painting of the sunset he had by some unknown artist - he said conspiratorily that it was famous and wanted $150 for it. yeah.

oh, and i think someone asked about this: www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=164906&highlight=mag+951

 

[ArmedBear]

anyway, this is the second time that so-called "friendly and sweet" rott has gone after me. talking to the neighbors about it today, they all apparently think that the owner's nuts. He never walks the dog, keeps it locked up in the yard, makes his 60yro wife work while he plays golf, and believes that leashes are unecessary because he got such a good rapport with his dog.

There are dogs that are just born jacked-up, as a breeder will tell you.

But much of the time, it's the OWNER that needs to be euthanized, not the animal. Generally, Rottweilers are athletic family dogs, and tend to love children, though they need to learn how not to knock them over.

Being locked alone in the yard drives them nuts -- they need social interaction.

Lack of exercise drives them nuts and makes them unhealthy, just like us.

They are fiercely protective, which can be a great thing. Kids with Rottweilers don't get molested by the creep down the street, that's for damn sure. BUT the dog needs to be socialized, or it doesn't know what or whom to protect, and from what or whom. A seriously-confused big dog with guarding instincts and no social or athletic outlets can become a dangerous animal, even if it could be the sweetest dog in the world under other conditions.

If my wife and I had the dog for six weeks, I'd give it at least 90% probability that it would seem like a different animal. And my little dog intimidates the hell out of big Rottweilers, so in the mean time, it would be kept in line! Tenacity and guts often beat size and strength.

 

[Lupinus]

You may have a point bear, but then sometimes the damage done is not reversable or it is simply the dog itself. I generaly group three dog's together that I would never own- Dobermans, Pits, and Rotties.

There are a few reason's for this the foremost being genetics. All three were bred for violent thing's and that was bred into them just like a herding instinct into dog's bred for that. To any who say genetics have nothing to do with genetics watch a herding breed that has never recieved a day of training on how to herd. Put it with a group of small kids and I bet none of them will wander off anything soon if the dog has something to say about it.

Out of those three though the rottie has come close to having most of the agressivness bred out but is still IMO to prone for me to trust it around my family (seeing one leap out of a window and attack its owner for no reason can do that to ya). Maybe after they have gone through more breeding I would consider one I always considered them good dogs except for the fact I don't trust them enough. The other two though IMO are no where near having that agresivness bred out especialy the pit which is the most owrthless of the three IMO.

 

[meef]

about an hour ago i was out walking my dog.

on the way back stinky stopped by a rose bush that he always sniffs and pees on because he likes to piss off the rott that lives inside.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make an offbeat suggestion.

Do you think it might be a good idea if you and stinky didn't walk past Exo's yard and pee on the rose bush anymore?

Knowing that it is inflammatory seems to me like you're kind of asking for it. You say this isn't the first time you've had problems with this dog. I've always felt it was tactically prudent and correct to avoid areas or situations where the potential for trouble was clearly known to be greater than average.

For example: I wouldn't go to a biker bar and pee on some guy's leg just to show that I can.

BTW - I also am the proud owner of one of Black Bear's incredible 951 lights and can't say enough good things about it. It's the most amazing flashlight I've ever had the good fortune to own. Anybody that doesn't have one is missing out!

 

[ArmedBear]

The other two though IMO are no where near having that agresivness bred out especialy the pit which is the most owrthless of the three IMO.

You have no idea what you're talking about, but, like a lot of people, you think you do. These dogs are NOT for everyone, and they're certainly not for the ignorant, stupid, or irresponsible, any more than guns are.

http://www.dpca.org/standard.html
http://www.amrottclub.org/introduc.htm
http://www.adba.cc/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=32&pg=32

(Note that human aggression disqualifies a dog from being listed as an American Pit Bull Terrier by the ADBA, the breed association)

Dobermans were bred as guard dogs. They are very obedient, and one of the most trainable dog breeds. People need to know what to do with one, if they are going to have it, but they are absolutely amazing dogs when raised, trained and treated as they should be.

Rottweilers are a very good breed with children, and I've personally witnessed this repeatedly with different individual dogs, male and female. Genetics are important, but when you see one Rottweiler do something it may or may not say anything about another dog of the breed.

And here's a picture of my "worthless" pit bull competing in the Purina Incredible Dog Challenge, after curiously failing to even try to eat the audience. She and my wife took 2nd place in a rough water swim event earlier in the day, after she completely failed to viciously attack the other dogs and people in the race.

 

[Lupinus]

and you like a lot of people also think you know, I wish you the best of luck cause if you keep timebombs around you you are going to need it.

 

[pauli]

so is this a thread about flashlights, a thread about wackjobs who beat their dogs with vegetables (seriously - ***?), or yet another thread where posters behave worse than the dogs they're discussing?

 

[Zundfolge]

Lupinus, you're falling for the same media hype that gets people to demand we take "cop killer bullets" and "Assault Rifles" "off the streets"

When a labrador or a collie attacks someone it doesn't make the news, but by God a "pit bull" just looks at someone and there's a news truck there.

 

[f4t9r]

I just hope the guy who had to defend himself gets his flashlight fixed

 

[f4t9r]

By the way also glad nobody got hurt

 

[Lupinus]

Lupinus, you're falling for the same media hype that gets people to demand we take "cop killer bullets" and "Assault Rifles" "off the streets"

When a labrador or a collie attacks someone it doesn't make the news, but by God a "pit bull" just looks at someone and there's a news truck there.

I've never seen someone mauled by a collie. Maybe bitten, but not mauled. And certianly without doing something stupid. I have seen more then a few mauled, not bitten, MAULED by pits, rots, and dobs for no reason.

Seen a few people torn up by German Shepords too. But not without training or provoking. Aside from those three dogs I have never seen someone mauled simply because the dog snaps.

 

[Cosmoline]

First of all, if your dog was an intact male and the Rott was an intact male, you were just witnessing the very natural and entirely predictable results of one male getting crosswise with another. There's no call to have either put down. Males, particularly those with their "hoden" still intact, WILL FIGHT EACH OTHER. It's as natural as Captain Kirk getting in a judo fight with his rival to an alien love interest.

stinky rushed him too

Exactly--mutual combat.

Trying to get between two large male dogs who want to fight is not the best option. It would have been better to pull the Rott away by the tail and scruff from behind and take it to the owner. Ideally both you and the owner can pull your dogs off from opposite directions, but it's never easy. The worst times I've been bit have been trying to break up fights.

I've seen extremely well socialized males who STILL want to fight it out with each other. It's a good example of why DOGS ARE NOT PEOPLE. They have their own set of rules and sometimes that trumps all the training in the world. Males wanting to breed with btiches in heat is one example--males wanting to fight is another. The best way to deal with it is not with threats or calls to animal control but to simply work with the other owner to prevent it. Neither of you want to deal with vet bills, and there's always the risk that after a mutual combat the pound will want to put both animals down.

 

[Lupinus]

Cos-
I will say for once in a dog argument you make a valid point. But this is not the first time this has happened remember.

Edited to add though that I have seen plenty of "intact" dogs not rush through a gate at another "intact" dog.

 

[Cosmoline]

and you like a lot of people also think you know, I wish you the best of luck cause if you keep timebombs around you you are going to need it.

 

[Cosmoline]

Cos-
I will say for once in a dog argument you make a valid point. But this is not the first time this has happened remember.

Edited to add though that I have seen plenty of "intact" dogs not rush through a gate at another "intact" dog.

True, it doesn't always happen. But one thing I've found being around way more dogs than I ever wanted to be around is that they literally live in a different universe than ours. For all we know, there was a bitch in heat a few blocks down. A little of that scent is enough to make males decide it's time to thin the gene pool. To us it makes no sense at all, since neither one of them will breed. But to the dogs it's more important than life or death. Also, one male constantly giving stink eye or peeing on the bushes in sight of a caged or penned male WILL start a fight if the caged male is ever free. Dogs remember that sort of thing, and they don't always take it lightly.

 

[Lupinus]

This is true Cos, it's called genetics

 

[Cosmoline]

It's not as breed specific as you seem to think. I've seen little rat terrirers with more fight in them than most of the GSD's I've been around. Any dogs other than the toys will have some of the old wolf behaviors in them. Indeed without those behaviors we couldn't control the dogs. But sometimes the "call of the wild" trumps what we want them to do. Owners just have to be aware of it. Keeping males who aren't on good terms well clear of each other is just one responsibility of dog ownership. If you know there's a male your dog keeps giving stink eye to, make a point of letting his owner know the situation and take precautions to avoid provocations.

Having a male dog who fights other male dogs does not mean you have a dog who won't be good around children or who is "viscious." Aggression isn't a bad thing. A dog without aggression is little more than a blanket with a pulse.

 

[Lupinus]

Odd how the vast majority of dogs are trained well enough to not rush other dogs jsut because they are both males.

If your dog attacks my dog for no reason then it should be taken care of why should I have to worry about my dog being killed and me being hurt trying to beak them up because you wont properly secure your dog or your dog likes attack other animals.

 

[Cosmoline]

Well lupinus, in this case both dogs rushed at each other. I've never actually seen a dog fight that wasn't mutual. If one dog doesn't want to fight, unless the dog is mentally ill it will know how to communicate this to the aggressive dog and there won't be any fight. Some little toy dogs have had the ability to communicate bred out of them along with most of their brains, and so they are sometimes just eaten on the spot. The larger dog doesn't even think it's dealing with another dog--just a big rat. And honestly I can't say that conclusion is far from the truth