Safely uncocking a loaded revolver

[1911Tuner]

I can't imagine anyone carrying a revolver cocked

Nor I.

-- the very thought makes the hair rise on the back of my neck!

No reason to be afeered, Vern. Double-action revolvers with either a hammer block or a transfer bar won't let the hammer light one up unless the trigger is pulled and held rearward. Cock a Smith and Wesson, and hold the hammer while trippin' the trigger. Then release the trigger and watch the hammer block move into place as the hammer moves.

Cock a Ruger Blackhawk...a New Model with the transfer bar. Same deal...except the transfer bar will drop out of position as the hammer moves forward.

Not as pricklish as one might suspect.

 

[Just One Shot]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm not trying to flame you but if you have to call the cops to decock your revolver then I would suggest that you seek additional training from a qualified instructor BEFORE you ever load your revolver.

This is considered firearms 101 as far as I'm concerned. Your safety and the safety of those around you is of great importance.

You should be so familiar with your firearm that you can load, cock, decock and unload in total darkness.

If you are not at this level of confidence with your weapon you should buy some snap caps, blindfold yourself and practice, practice, practice until it becomes second nature.

 

[Jamie C.]

Not as pricklish as one might suspect.

Here's the problem though: Anything that pushes the trigger of a cocked revolver hard enough to let the hammer fall will likely hold it back at least long enough to fire a round.

Remember, when the gun is cocked, the transfer bar is already in front of the firing pin, or the hammer block is already dropped. Sure, if the sear breaks, the trigger will simply move forward with the hammer, repositioning the various safety devices as it goes, but if the trigger is actually pulled/pushed on, the offending item has to get the hell out of the way of the trigger - and rather quickly - for the gun not to go *BANG!*.

Tell ya what... just for giggles, take your favorite revolver, and either place snap caps in it, with the primer area marked in such a way as to let you tell if it's hit with the firing pin ( a dab of white-out, or liquid paper should do. ), or load it with primed, EMPTY cases. Then, while pointing the gun in a safe direction ( preferably outdoors or at a shooting range, if you're using primed cases ), TAP the trigger quickly with your off-hand finger, trying not to hold it back.

I'll bet you have no luck at all dropping the hammer without the firing pin hitting the primer. 'Cause that hammer drops QUICK.


J.C.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

No reason to be afeered, Vern. Double-action revolvers with either a hammer block or a transfer bar won't let the hammer light one up unless the trigger is pulled and held rearward.

For shooting, that's true. But to carry a cocked revolver?

 

[rcmodel]

If you are not at this level of confidence with your weapon you should buy some snap caps, blindfold yourself and practice, practice , practice until it becomes second nature.

+ 1,000.

You should be able to safely uncock any DA or SA revolver one-handed from any position or situation you can get yourself into with it cocked.

If you can't, set in front of the TV and do it about a gazillion times until you can.

IMO: All the things about lowering it with your left thumb while pulling the trigger with your right hand, sticking your pinky finger in front of the hammer, etc. is more dangerous then just uncocking it with the same thumb you cocked it with.

Anytime you get both hands involved doing two different things at once, it takes your primary focus off of where the muzzle is pointed, etc.

rc

 

[Vonderek]

I gotta believe that if I called the cops in the middle of the night to come over and decock my handgun I'd get a much different treatment from the responders!

 

[1911Tuner]

Anything that pushes the trigger of a cocked revolver hard enough to let the hammer fall will likely hold it back at least long enough to fire a round.

Think so? Try releasing the hammer on a Smith & Wesson and letting go of the trigger immediately...then just turn loose of the hammer. Watch the hammer come to a dead stop about an eighth of an inch from full cock. The rebound slide interferes with the hammer's movement.

Dunno about a Ruger DA revolver. I haven't messed with enough of'em to see the inner function...but it would likely be similar. John Browning wasn't the only designer with an eye toward redundancy.

The gun manufacturers are extremely lawsuit shy...and understandably so. They have been for several decades. While they can advise the buyer not to leave the hammer cocked...they can't control what he/she will do after the gun leaves their facility...and the engineers design the guns with that fact in mind. While the gun can conceivably fire if the hammer falls without pulling the trigger...it's not highly likely.

Even the old 1873 Colts and their true modern clones had a quarter-cock notch that was intended to arrest the hammer...unless the trigger is held rearward.

For shooting, that's true. But to carry a cocked revolver?

Vern. Nobody is advocating carrying a cocked revolver, and I'd never say that it was okay to do it. The point was that the hammer being cocked isn't all that likely for the gun go "go off" without warning...even if it's jarred.

Pulling the trigger is the act that bypasses all built-in safety functions, and tells the gun to fire.

 

[rcmodel]

+1

Many of the young Glock-age cops around here would be dangerous with a cocked revolver they had never handled before.

rc

 

[Jazziette]

Won't be the first time that a cop was wrong on a point of law. Not all of'em are true gunnies, and not all of'em are experts on firearms laws. A friend of mine once had a reserve Sheriff's deputy try to charge him with carrying a concealed weapon...and the pistol was in the trunk. Lucky for the lawdog that Steve convinced him to call his supervisor to the scene before he executed a false arrest. After all that...the guy still wanted to confiscate the gun. To no avail, though. The watch commander told him "No dice. He isn't in violation of any law. Let him go his way."

Hey Tuner! I found this PDF on "legal issues" regarding safety in carrying, etc. firearms in Arizona. Honestly I don't know if it is a law or just a guideline but I agree wholeheartedly about the cops not always really knowing the law. I lived in a small town back in Texas and we had two Sheriffs in a row that were sent to prison for 'not knowing the law'. LOL So I am in complete agreement with you. Here in Arizona we have this Sheriff Arpaijo who one definitely doesn't want to mess with, right or wrong.

As for toting your gun around cocked I suppose that from what I'm reading the 1911s are a completely different matter and it is considered common practice to do this.

I really do appreciate the advice and I don't take offense to anything anyone has said. In fact just because of this incident and also the responses I have received I am going to the next class available to me for training. I've been wanting to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon for a long time now.

Oh....I definitely need to learn so much more. It's true!!! But in my own defense I will say this (again)...one of the cops that came to my house didn't even know how to decock my revolver. The other cop had to show him. LOL

Btw...my revolver is single action.

Here's what I found:

http://ccw.azdps.gov/documents/firearmsafetybook.pdf

(snippet)

3. Storing Weapons

A. Educate all persons that might have access to a firearm
B. Check all firearms to make sure they are unloaded (look and feel)
C. Store in a safe/secure location
D. Store out of sight
E. Use additional safety devices (cable locks, padlocks, gunsafes, etc.)
F. Never store or carry a cocked revolver

 

[Jazziette]

Regarding the subject of cocking a double-action revolver in preparation for a self-defense scenario:

Yes, it would be much easier to negligently discharge the firearm than if you had to pull a long, heavy double-action trigger. Why do people carry 1911s with 3lb. triggers for self-defense, then? Simple - Rule #3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET (I'll add that "target" in this situation would mean a clearly identified bad guy).

It's harder to "flinch fire" a single-action trigger at a shadow or your buddy coming in unexpectedly if your trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard.

Research.

Practice safely.

And welcome to THR.

Oh, has anyone mentioned cornered cat yet? If not, here is the link, a great read for anyone, man or woman:

www.corneredcat.com

Hey Johnny! Thanks very much for the cornered cat website link. A great site!! I guess we wimmen have a built in mechanism that makes us a lot like cornered cats when threatened. LOL Seriously....I can see it is a site worthy of spending some time on.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

As for toting your gun around cocked I suppose that from what I'm reading the 1911s are a completely different matter and it is considered common practice to do this.

When the M1911 was designed, the functional proponant was the cavalry. For horse cavalry, there has to be a way of quickly making a gun safe -- with one hand, on the back of an excited and possibly bucking horse. Browning initially proposed simply uncocking the gun with the thumb. The Army demanded both a safety lock and a grip safety. FM 25-35 authorized two modes of carrying in combat. Condition 3 (loaded magazine, empty chamber) was preferred. But in situations where the gun had to be kept ready for instant use, Condition 1 (cocked with the safety lock engaged and a round in the chamber) was indicated.

 

[Jazziette]

I gotta believe that if I called the cops in the middle of the night to come over and decock my handgun I'd get a much different treatment from the responders!

LOL There are some advantages to being a woman. hahaha

(It wasn't the middle of the night. I waited until around 2 PM the next day after I decided it was less embarassing to call them than one of my friends who would NEVER let me live it down.

 

[rcmodel]

Btw...my revolver is single action.

O.K> Tell us more. I thought you had the pink one in the picture earlier.

If so, it is a DA revolver.
That can also be fired SA.

If in fact it is a SA, then you are dealing with a whole nother set of safety rules.

Older designs like the Colt SAA and Ruger three-screw are not safe with a round under the hammer at all.

Tell us what it is exactly and we can steer you in the right direction.

rc

 

[Jamie C.]

Think so? Try releasing the hammer on a Smith & Wesson and letting go of the trigger immediately...then just turn loose of the hammer. Watch the hammer come to a dead stop about an eighth of an inch from full cock. The rebound slide interferes with the hammer's movement.

Tuner, I'm not talking about lowering the hammer... Simply holding the hammer, pulling the trigger, then easing the hammer forward a bit and then taking your finger completely off the trigger is safe. I've done it about a million times or so in my lifetime, with all sorts of revolvers.

What I was speaking about was how safe it is ( or isn't ) to carry a cocked and loaded revolver in a holster, or in any fashion that could allow something to bump, hit, pull, or otherwise move the trigger. ( Quite a few revolver holsters do have the trigger exposed, after all. )

So, try the exercise I outlined earlier and see what results you get. I think you might be surprised.

I know I tried it myself with a Ruger Super Single-Six and a S&W 66, and had them fire the primed cases more often than they didn't.


J.C.

 

[Jazziette]

O.K> Tell us more. I thought you had the pink one in the picture earlier.

If so, it is a DA revolver.
That can also be fired SA.

If in fact it is a SA, then you are dealing with a whole nother set of safety rules.

Older designs like the Colt SAA and Ruger three-screw are not safe with a round under the hammer at all.

Tell us what it is exactly and we can steer you in the right direction.

rc

O.K> Tell us more. I thought you had the pink one in the picture earlier.

No...it has pink grips but it isn't the one in the pic. That's the one I WANTED but coudn't get at the time I got this one. I'll get the box and tell you just what it is. brb

 

[Jazziette]

Tell us what it is exactly and we can steer you in the right direction.

It took a while to get the box open. (kidddinnng)

It's a S&W 360. This is what the little envelope with the bullet in it says:

Make: Smith & Wesson
Model: 360
Gun Type: REVOLVER
Caliber: .38SP
Serial # *******
Rifing Char: 5 RH

Does that help?

 

[rcmodel]

O.K., your gun is a DA revolver with SA capability.
Or sometimes called a DA/SA revolver.
Or just a DA revolver.

A DAO (Double Action Only) would not have a hammer you could cock.
A SA have to be cocked first before firing. Pulling the trigger would do nothing at all unless you cocked it first.

Your gun is safe fully loaded with a round under the hammer.

It has two redundent hammer block safety systems.
Any time the trigger is released to go forward:
1. The rebound slide blocks the hammer from the bottom.
2. The hammer block inserts a steel bar between the hammer & the frame. You can look down inside the hammer slot and see it in operation as you lower the hammer.

To lower the hammer safely:
Hold it back with your thumb and pull the trigger just enough to release it.
Then take all pressure off the trigger.
Then lower the hammer with your thumb.

The trigger will now go forward under spring pressure and set both safety systems before the hammer can possibly contact the firing pin.

You would have to consciously hold the trigger back while releasing the hammer for it to fire.

rc

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here you go.



http://www.firearms-safety.com/products/apc100/apc100.php?item=APC-100T

Please don't forget to wear your hearing and eye protection.

US military uses a similar device, but ours are usually just a 55 gal drum half full of sand.

 

[Jazziette]

O.K., your gun is a DA revolver with SA capability.
Or sometimes called a DA/SA revolver.
Or just a DA revolver.

A DAO (Double Action Only) would not have a hammer you could cock.
A SA have to be cocked first before firing. Pulling the trigger would do nothing at all unless you cocked it first.

Your gun is safe fully loaded with a round under the hammer.

It has two redundent hammer block safety systems.
Any time the trigger is released to go forward:
1. The rebound slide blocks the hammer from the bottom.
2. The hammer block inserts a steel bar between the hammer & the frame. You can look down inside the hammer slot and see it in operation as you lower the hammer.

To lower the hammer safely:
Hold it back with your thumb and pull the trigger just enough to release it.
Then take all pressure off the trigger.
Then lower the hammer with your thumb.

The trigger will now go forward under spring pressure and set both safety systems before the hammer can possibly contact the firing pin.

You would have to consciously hold the trigger back while releasing the hammer for it to fire.

rc

Thanks RC! I have practiced this a few times today and it's really no big deal but it's nice to know about the extra safety systems. Still.....I don't plan on cocking it while loaded again. This isn't really my favorite gun I've ever owned. I'm waiting for my new pistol to come in and wishing now I had ordered a different one. Like the 340 PD. But I just had to have a 9mm. LOL You guys are making me wish now I had ordered a 1911.

 

[BCRider]

Link to S&W technical specs on the 360

It's a double/single action pistol. Not single action only. So you can just pull the trigger and it'll cock and then fire all in one pull. That's considered as double action because it does two things, it pulls back the hammer and then it release it to fire. Single action is where you manually cock back the hammer and it locks. Then a very short travel on the trigger releases it to fire. When you manually pull the hammer back you'll see the trigger move back as well and then stop just at the point it's ready to release with much less pressure and travel than for a full pull double action.

I'd say the firearms handling course would be money wisely spent. It not only will show you more about your present gun but it'll teach you the basics of the other styles of guns as well. Along with that I'd similarly recomend you buy a set of snap caps and practice like the others are suggesting. You may want to look into a speed loader or two as well.

On top of that a fun way to get some advanced training once you've had your course is to look around and see if there's any ranges/clubs in your area that run speed steel matches for handguns. My own club does this once a month and it's not only a total fun fest but it helps with operating your gun under pressure in both quick and accurate sight acquisition and smooth shooting but also in dealing with reloading. Granted the stress from having someone time your performance is tame compared to a defense situation but the lessons gained under even that small amount of stress will help a lot by becoming habit. ESPECIALLY since most folks will agree that shooting a snubbie effectively can be a real challenge on it's own. I've seen first time shooters with pistols shooting at a 2 x 3 foot target only 5 yards in front of them and only about 2/3 of the bullets even hit the paper let alone the man shaped print. Shooting handguns is something that really does beg for considerable practice. Oh, and did I mention that shooting at the steel disc targets is a lot of fun as well? Yep, it really IS.... It's rewarding as hell to hear the DING! that says you can move on to the next one

 

[rcmodel]

But I just had to have a 9mm.

???

The more you post the more confused I get.

You bought a .38 Special, so what's a 9mm got to do with anything?

rc

 

[1911Tuner]

So, try the exercise I outlined earlier and see what results you get. I think you might be surprised.

Try mine. You might be surprised. Load up with primed cases...cock the gun...and drop it until you get the hammer to jar off. It won't fire unless there's something seriously amiss in the lockwork.

Smith & Wesson revolvers were my first love, and still are...not 1911s, as might be supposed. That love affair started in 1960 or '61 with a Victory Model that my ol' pappy gave 15 bucks for at Wilson-Pleasant's hardware.

If the trigger isn't positvely pressed rearward, the instant the hammer is released, the rebound slide and trigger move forward, and the hammer block will move upward...or the transfer bar will drop. The rebound slide will interrupt the hammer's fall on a Smith & Wesson. Again...I don't know about the Ruger DAs. I've only owned one, and for a short while. I didn't have time to get cozy with it. Ruger single-actions? Oh, yeah!

Jazziette...The 1911 was designed to allow safe cocked and locked carry. Revolvers weren't.

But...If anyone is that skittish with a cocked revolver, try the advice for folks who are uncomfortable with 1911s in Condition 1.

To wit:

Cock and lock an empty gun and carry it around all day in a holster.

Do the same with a DA revolver. Use a holster that covers the trigger guard. At the end of the day...or a week or a month...the gun will still be cocked.

Her revolver may be DA only, with no provision for cocking the hammer.

Jazziette...Single-action revolvers must be thumb-cocked for every shot...like cowboy-style revolvers.

 

[Jazziette]

NavyLt....salutes!

http://www.firearms-safety.com/produ...?item=APC-100T
Please don't forget to wear your hearing and eye protection.
US military uses a similar device, but ours are usually just a 55 gal drum half full of sand.

Thanks for the pic and advise about safety. Back home I was in my kitchen one day and had the back door open when a red-tailed hawk swooped down to pick up my baby squirrel off the ground. I picked up my gun and shot it from inside the house. My ears rang for three days so I know just what you mean about the ear plugs.

Btw....I missed the hawk but he missed the squirrel too. LOL

 

[Jazziette]

???

The more you post the more confused I get.

You bought a .38 Special, so what's a 9mm got to do with anything?

rc

Sorry to confuse you. I had posted this earlier...not the pic, but the info. I have this ordered. It's an S&W M&P9 - JG

 

[Jazziette]

Jazziette...Single-action revolvers must be thumb-cocked for every shot...like cowboy-style revolvers.

LOL Thanks Tuner! What would I do without you? D~oh!!!!

Okay...mine is definitely not an SA then. hahaha I haven't had one of those since I had my first real gun: a .22 pistol my grandpa gave me when I was just a kid. I loved that little gun. I honestly don't recall ever having a problem with any gun till the decocking incident yesterday. To be really honest...I know more about guns than most of the guys I know here in Scottsdale. It's just the truth. Lots and lots of cityslickers here.