Self Defense, and not just with guns...

[David4516]

"I took a chance on him and was right to do it. His art was not my first choice, but his school was."

Sounds alot like my situation. TKD was not my first choice either, but I liked the way it was being taught, and the time/location of the classes were convenient, so I went for it...

'Finally, I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers with this, but don't ever believe anyone who says something like "don't expect that you can ever beat a wrestler if you study TKD." '

I agree. When 2 people fight, it is person vs person, not stlye vs stlye. The better fighter will win, reguardless of what school he is from...

El Tejon- Could you tell us more about qin na? It sounds interesting...

And you Ju-jitsu guys, could you tell us more about your art? That is another one I'd like to know more about...

 

[dave3006]

Dave4516, my best advice to you would be to simply stop by a boxing club and a good Judo or Jiu Jitsu studio. Heck, most brazilians will even let you participate for free in a class. I am not saying stop TKD. Just realize the limitations. Your "master" (boy there are a lot of Korean masters...) is in a fantasy world about the one punch kill thing.

Oracle does not have a clue. He practices once a month. I have to stop laughing now or I will pee my pants.

 

[David4516]

dave3006, now you are just making stupid assumptions:

"Just realize the limitations. Your "master" (boy there are a lot of Korean masters...) is in a fantasy world about the one punch kill thing."

First off, my TEACHER does not ask anyone to call him master. He would probably look at you funny if you did... in fact most students adress him by his first name...

Second, the "one punch kill" thing is not his way of teaching. I am simply saying that there are situations in witch you could use a TKD technique and have a good chance of "stopping" (not killing or knocking out) the bad guy in a single move... this is me talking based on what I know and have seen, this is NOT what is taught in class...

In class we are told the truth. We are told that it may take several hits to disable an attacker, and that in many situations the best thing to do is to avoid the fight altogether and run...

The only reason I brought up the "one punch kill" as you call it was to adress this comment:

"TKD simply takes WAY too long to do anything to damage the opponent"

 

[El Tejon]

David, "qin na" (or "chin na" depends on translation methodology) means "seize and control." It is also referred to as "grappling hands" or the "humane art." In essense, joint locks of Chinese martial arts.

Qin na is the intermediate force used although every hold contains everything from a lock, a break, a throw, to dim mak. It is taught as a free -floating subset to be grafted onto different types of boxing--Eagle Claw, White Crane, Praying Mantis, Taijiquan, etc.

san0 is right though. It takes an enormous amount of training and conditioning and lots of stuff can go wrong, especially when starting out. Just be aware of its limitations next time anyone sez "all you need to do is _______." Sort of like the guys in the gun shoppe that say "all you need is a .32 in your pocket."

I'm glad you have found a form of fighting you enjoy. Stick with it and its rewards will come on many different levels.

 

[igor]

More power to everybody!

What I do is traditional karate, a Japanese mainland style with a strong connection back to Okinawa thru kobudo weapons training. I've been at it for 17 years.

I claim that if you take any style or martial art with a lineage or connection to the pool of knowledge of any of the strong, established Oriental realms of martial arts, you have the chance to dip into that pool. And in it you'll find everything there is to know about the dynamics of the human body as it pertains to a combative application.

These traditions mostly can be traced back to China: at least the Okinawan, Korean and Japanese have a good part of their common ground there. Then you have the Indonesian and Filipino arts and the Indians' own thing. They share some of their tradition and have developed separate ways in most of it, but have come to the same results.

The problem surfaces when an art is taken from its context and made into a sport. Or when a "new" thing is made up by re-inventing the wheel and sold as something with a history. Or, when both of the above apply and the result is sold as a comprehensive self-defence system. And when people with their styles are compartmentalized in boxes of this and that with seemingly uncrossable borderlines.

Korean styles aren't only kicking high. Karate isn't only kicking and striking. BJJ is more than ground grappling. Tai chi most certainly isn't just a gymnastics form for the elderly. They're all the same thing and the restrictions in each one's outer expression are superficial and artificial.

What I'm saying is, find an art with a lineage, learn your basics well and then explore deeper into it. You'll find everything in it without ever having to "mix styles"... all the angles, positions, distances, weapons, tactics etc.

Any "master" who says his/her art doesn't include this or that, only hasn't gone there yet or isn't telling.

 

[Oracle]

I said I practice once or twice a month now, I've practiced a great deal more than that in the past. Now, I mainly practice to keep my skills current. Regardess, I don't do so to impress you or others, so therefore, your opinion is rather moot to me.

My point is, dave3006 makes a lot of statements that I, and many others, simply don't believe to be true. You don't have to constantly practice MA, or anything else, to know when someone is feeding you a line. And, I would suggest taking anything he says at this point with a very large grain of salt.

But, I'm not going to get into pissing contests. I'd suggest caution when anyone makes absolute statements ("never do this or that", "a trained person will always be able to take a fight to the ground", etc.), whenever anyone makes statements like that, they are usually wrong.

Some of the best advice I've heard concerning MA is to find a school that teaches a combatively applied martial art, and has good teacher(s). It doesn't really matter what that art is, as long as it is taught and applied with a "use this in the real world" mindset, and the teachers know what they are talking about. In general, you should look for the best teacher in your area, and not worry about what "art" they are teaching, as it all breaks down to the same kinds of stuff in the end.

 

[Devonai]

I agree that understanding your limitations is important. I earned my green belt in TKD, and honestly the only useful thing I learned was balance. It wasn't until I started studying Kendo (or Kenjitsu if you prefer) that I began to get a real sense of how to fight. I have tried to take what works in Kendo and apply it to unarmed fighting. Some aspects work fine, some aspects do not. The most important thing, IMO, is that I am aware of my weaknesses and try to work within them.

For instance, Kendo has taught me how to dodge quite well. It has also taught me that the traditional way of blocking strikes (the painful way) isn't necessary. Kendo and Aikido share concepts of redirection of force, which works well against opponents of average skill. So what's the weakness? I recognize that I would do poorly against any more than one opponent at a time. Being able to step aside and let your opponent miss is all fine and dandy when you have all the time in the world, but if I had to put him down fast and hard because he had friends backing him up, I'd be in trouble. Therefore, I know I have to work on my counter-strikes, something that I've found to be a bit of a challenge without a bokken in hand.

It also works really poorly for knife fighting. I would much rather slug it out with katanas than with smaller blades. Mistakes with the latter are much easier to make, at least for me. I've spent many hours sparring with my buddy, who is a 2nd degree black belt in Shorin-Ryu, and this bears it out quite plainly.

 

[El Tejon]

Dev, I may start Kendo/Japanese sword in January (assuming I survive December 6th). Anything I need to do conditioning wise? TIA!

 

[Soap]

I love groundfighting! Especially when I have a concealed knife.

 

[Devonai]

El Tejon, if you want to get a head start physically, I would recommend hammer curls (single hand dumbells, held vertically, raised to shoulder level and down again slowly). Choose a weight that allows you to get to 15-20 repetitions, and do three sets. Any extensive sword work is going to be hard on your forearms. I'd also recommend buying a bokken now and building up some callouses on your hands. If your class is more than an hour you might blister (if your hands are lily-white and dainty, that is).

Also, look for Bokken: Art of the Japanese Sword by Dave Lowry. It is a good resource that may give you a head start for some basic stances and strikes. Of course, it will only be of limited usefulness. Most of what I read in that book made no sense until I was shown how to do it.

Also beware of excessive one-handed work with a heavy sword. I bought a four pound katana and proceeded to do 3200 total repetitions a day with it. I got carpal-tunnel syndrome a year later. Brilliant, eh? Of course, my forearms looked like Popeye's.

 

[El Tejon]

Dev, thanks much. I do hand and forearms (reverse curls, sword stick, windlass, fingertip pushups, telephone book toss, coin pickups, air grabs, etc.) exercises at every workout, mandatory for boxing as well as hand conditioning for boxing and qin na, iron skin, pound the sandbags, steel pillar (my gym is an old Wal-Mart) beating, wooden man slappin', and dropping the concrete 2 inch block.

I am used to the dao and jian, and will start the 8 cut swords soon as well in Chinese boxing, but have no experience with the Japanese sword. Can I get Mr. Lowry's book at a chain store, or do I have to go to the 'net?

I'm with you on "book learning". Some guys can do that, I need a live instructor to whack me upside the haid to learn correctly.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Let's make certain we don't get personal here. Jeff will smack us all upside the head, then he'll hit me again just for the hell of it. You people don't live as conveniently near him as I do.