Hand to Hand Combat

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Just wondering what the people here on THR is the best form of martial arts or hand to hand training is, wether it be Kempo, Kung Fu, or some form of Mixed Martail arts. This is not for competition fight, but best for use on the street when all else has failed and you must defend your self and have no firearm.
 
I was very competitive for years in Kenpo, tang soo do, muay thai and american kickboxing. I also dabbled in MMA Aikido, for hand to hand combat involving weapons I believe Aikido is probably the best out there that is easy enough for any person of any age to use effectively. Aikido is one of the very few martial art I have found where size and weight doesnt matter quite as much. A lot of people tell you that in martial arts size and weight doesnt matter...well thats bull and I can go into detail as to why, but I wont here. Anyway there are more advanced hand to hand "combat" arts, but in my opinion you need a lot of serious training to become even remotely proficient. Anyway thats my opinion.
 
I like Tae Kwon Do and I know that it is effective.

Many will chime in that the artistic aspects are not necessary and all you need are the practical street fighting techniques. I will respectfully disagree with them in advance. Your best weapon is your mind.
 
Its not really a question of what form is best. But what form fits you and how adept you are at that form. Its a never ending battle between the chest-thumper competition martial artists over what is the best form.

I personally have taken Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu, Tai Chi, Systema (Russian Martial art) and Krav Maga (Israeli H to H combat). All the forms have thier ups and downs. But if you practice one and make it your own, it will work for you. I take different parts of each art and work with whatever I feel is natural.

But, its all up to your own personal preference. There are alot of martial arts that focus on belt ranking and traditional stances and moves, while there are also plenty of arts that focus solely on street survival and self-defense.

Hope this helps some :cool:
 
Mixed martial arts would be best. You must have strikes, kicks, throws and ground fighting skills. I wrestled for 7 years, boxed for three and 20 years of police arrest and restraint training, with some martial arts training in kung fu (no belt) for the kicks mostly. I have used all of this training both on the job and off (in my younger, roudy days) and never lost a fight. There were a few times I struck fast and ran when faced with multiple opponents. Nowadays I just carry a CZ-82 or 92FS concealed and call it good.
 
It took a liitle bit of mma a couple of years ago and then had to move and by searching the only thing close to my position is a Krav Maga school.
 
I have a few years of formal martial arts training, but I am in the camp of mma training for self defense. To prevail consistently in hand to hand, you need to know how to win standing up and on the ground. In a no-rules environment with an actively resisting opponent, many of the techniques taught in formal martial arts are ineffective.

AND YOU NEED TO BE IN SHAPE. H2H training for someone who can't go 15 seconds will do him little good. Work on strength and cardio as you work on fighting skills.

Finally, prepare your mind. Think through the things that are worth fighting for, worth going to jail, worth killing someon for, and worth dying for. Once the fight starts, any of these may happen. When you decide what you are willing to fight for, be prepared to get into action without hesitation.
 
Coondawg47 is mostly correct imo/ime..
Ive instructed a form of "shaoLin KungFu' for bout 5 yrs now.. Ive studied 7 styles of 'kung-fu'.

the color of a belt is a false level of acomplishment.

Ive practiced from american boxing-wresteling, brazilian jujitsu, TKD, Huc Chung Kun Tao, and various chineese styles..

there is no best... and there is no such thing as equal skill level.. just think about it..

I feel my best defence, will only be revealed in a given situation, NOT to be pre-determined. be-it thru physical defence, or out-thinking an opponent.

no doubt, a variety of practices will lend you more versitile options in a given situation.. as well as Style vs youre physical ability..
finding what is best for youre style of person is quite important in effectiveness..

expect many folks with a couple sequences under their toes, to convey themselves as a master ;)

as with a firearm.. find what suites you best.

ip.
 
PS, for those who think martial arts islimited to the young and fit.....
do a search on Chin Na.


ip
(a student of Yang Jwing Ming)
 
There is no "best" martial art. It's what you do with what you are taught. If you are taught elaborate tournament style WuShu and don't fight you're going to get your clock cleaned by a guy that didn't even place in Golden Gloves boxing. If you know it's a fighting style and you train to fight and you train frequently you'll be better off than someone with a rainbow of belts and fancy costumes. I've gone from TKD and Hapkido to CB and FMA (kali, escrima) to Tai Chi, but then I'm older and fatter. My personal experience was that the Hapkido saved my bacon on 3 occasions, that and verbal Judo, but I was so impressed with CB that I wish I'd started there.
 
They do teach street fighting classes .. in this case I feel that would be most effective .. I used to study martial arts and fought in martial arts tournament but it was more controlled than what a street fight would be .. street fighting to protect yourself is a no holding back type fighting.. I would look into mixed martial arts and maybe a instructor with a background in UFC style fighting ..
 
As many have already said; there is no best style, it is a matter of the individual. Find an instructor who you can respect and is sincere about teaching, not just making money.

Whatever you go with devote yourself completely to the training, don't just show up, do some moves and think you are all that. Give it everything you have in training and remember: More sweat in training, less blood in battle.

Good luck in your search,
Alex
 
Running - a classical pedigree and long (if perhaps less than optimally distinguished) history:

“Qui fugiebat, rursus prœliabitur" (He who flees will again do battle) -- Tertullian

When all else fails...improvise tools.

I am also a big fan of awareness and "people" skills
 
My main discipline is Eskrima. Learned from an early age. Its a more complete art than most realize, just many people don't progress that far. My crosstraining includes a couple years of Muay Thai (I just couldn't handle the conditioning required. Standing in form and getting beat with bamboo is NOT a fun day. ) and a couple of years of small circle bjj from an old roommate.

Did try out TKD, JKD, Shotokan Karate, and Kendo, just didn't get the right feel for them. Could have been me, could have been instructors or some combination of both, I don't know.

A couple of disiplines I'd like to add are Aikijitsu and Silak. First need to drop a few pounds I picked up from somewhere (I'd say some good living :) :) )


I basically use Muay Thai for striking, bjj for grappling, and Eskrima to bridge the gaps.
 
Yes, the mind is the most important weapon you (and the enemy) possess. Shut down their mind and you have a 100% chance of survival.

Need something that trains you to injure an attacker until he/they are non-functional via the most efficient means available. Biggest problem with most stuff out there is it is focused internally (on how you execute that system, how good you are at "X") not externally, on the results you get on the attacker.

I don't give two hoots what your "form" looks like...when you shatter someone's ankle. You can stomp it, fall on it, slam a rock into it, shoot it. If you bust the ankle and the attacker falls (opening up another chance to inujure him) then you are a success. Sure, there are more efficient (and less efficient) ways of striking, but they should involve physics not "art".

Even MMA falls short. Those techniques are designed around what is most efficient and effective against 1 fit, and similarly skilled attacker, in a ring, with rules and a ref. I enjoy MMA, have trained some BJJ in the past and have known people who are starting to compete, so I'm not critiquing at all. It's a matter of goal and focus.

You wouldn't prep a counter-terrorist unit by having them shoot IPSC. What they do will be very effective when lives are on the line, less effective in competition. The training methods are very different even though gun handling and marskmanship is emphasized in each. Sure, you could shoot IPSC on the side...but the success in combat will be based on training and tactics honed at the unit level specifically designed for their expected combat environment.

MMA events end where criminal violence begins. Assuming it didn't go to judges score...a MMA bout ends with a KO, TKO, Injury or submission hold (injury immenent if not for the tap). This is the start of violence...injuring another human being then finishing them off (I don't necessarily mean ""kill") before they can recover. In a violent situation...you can be the one doing the injury or the one getting injured.

It's kinda odd, but in every other high risk field (military, LE, executive protection) training is conducted in a controlled manner focusing on simulating the hostile environment as closely as possible. They do not "train" by setting up fair competitions. The martial arts and H2H fields are still doing lots of competitions (emphasis on sparring)...and very little, if any simulations of real hostile events.

You don't train an EP detail by having 4 attackers vs 4 bodyguards, paintball/simunition guns and rules and see who "wins." You may have 4 attackers and 4 BG's, but the training event will have realistic goals for the attackers (kidnap/kill principle) and the goal of the detail isn't to "win" it is to get their client safely out of the area. The techniques they would use to "win" the fight are far different then what they would use to just "get off the X".

Similarly, the techniques a MMA fighter would use in a ring would be very ineffective facing 3 gang bangers; 1 with a knife, one reaching for a gun and the last one swinging a bat. His mind also wouldn't be prepped to deal with 3 threats...his subconscious isn't used to that problem. I'm not saying he wouldn't survive, but if he did...what he did wouldn't resemble a MMA bout.

These threads always seem to get "flamey" because for some reason there is a lot of ego/emotion that people seem to attach to their favorite MA/fighting system...I personally don't care what it is as long as it is effecient and the goal of the system is the same as mine (pure survival of a violent conflict). The goal of a Martial Arts instructor...is to teach you that Martial Art. The goal of MMA is to win MMA bouts. The goal of a "Reality Based" system should (better!) be to train their clients to survive the violent encounters that they are likely to face.

Try these links, the one I train the most in alignment with is the 1st one. TFT just put out an e-book, manual. I have read the first 30 pages of it...it does a great job of outlining what, why and how to use "the tool of violence" in a life or death situation. Even if you don't buy any DVD's or attend any training, this knowledge will be extremely usefull and applicable to any system you decide to train. I think it is $29 with some "bonuses" that are always included for marketing purposes;).

Target Focus Training www.tftgroup.com EDIT/Update: I just checked out their site, I don't think that manual is released yet...I got a sneak preview. Here's a free DVD though...http://www.targetfocustraining.com/freedvd/

Special Combat Aggressive Reactionary Systems (SCARS) www.scars.com
-I've been training the top 2 for about 13 years combined...while looking into lots of other stuff and incorporating what I find effective. TFT is better IMO, an evolution of SCARS with better training methodology and a more civilian focus.

Jim Wagner www.jimwagnertraining.com
Former military/cop/counter-terrorist operative. Does a great job of developing realistic scenario training and covers pre and post incident considerations as well as use of force. I plan on getting an instructor cert from him when I get back. TFT only covers the use of violence, not anything else.

Always heard good things about Tony Blauer www.tonyblauer.com
No experience with him...not enough time and $$ yet

Also check out "southnarc" www.shivworks.com
Was all set for 3 days of training with him, until Katrina messed that up...
 
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There were a few times I struck fast and ran when faced with multiple opponents.
Nowadays I just carry a CZ-82 or 92FS concealed and call it good.
Yeah.

I have a lot of respect for those who practice the ancient arts
of breaking ankles and ripping out throats, hearts, brains with bare hands.

Great skills, especially when you forget the carry piece or it misfires.

But these days, for me, given my work schedule (some of us have to work 60 hr weeks),
and that I don't have time to train to such proficiency with hands and feet,
it just seems more prudent to carry a big gun.

SW 642 on the hip.
870P with 00 in the safe room.
SW 686+ in .357 is next.

YMMV.
 
Muay Thai, Western Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Krav Maga.

I'm experimenting with Wing Chun and Kung Fu. But Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a must for anyone. 96% of all unarmed fights end up on the ground at some point.
 
i just enrolled my 7yo daughter in a mma self defense class. of course this means that i will be taking it as well. they use a traditional kung-fu style for punches and kicks, but for the older folks they teach quite a bit of various grappling styles. previously i have had no ma training, but did box regularly with a friend of mine. when sparring, most of the students keep a kicks length distance betwwen them, alternating kick block, punch block, combination, etc. i think this is great for perfecting the form of ma, but does little for protecting yourself in a real fight. when i spar i will alternate betwween standing outside and kicking, and then rushing in and using inside boxing techniques. this really throws most of the students for a loop. they didn't seem to have any idea how to deal with this at first, but now about half the class is able to deal with it more effectively. i also agree that the level of training will not represent how well you will do in a real fight. unless youv'e had to scrap it out a few times you may never know what training will be effective for you. that being said, i feel that the close in, and on the ground techniques will do the best.
 
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When it comes to martial arts, the key is to pick an art that you like that trains in an alive manner. For striking this is often limited to boxing and Muay Thai. For grappling you're usually left with Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

I have a lot of respect for those who practice the ancient arts
of breaking ankles and ripping out throats, hearts, brains with bare hands.

Must...stop...laughing...
 
I'll put in a plug for Kendo. Of all the arts I've trained in, it's far easier to get away with imprecise body positioning and footwork in anything *but* Kendo. Ki ken tai no ichi. Seriously, if you ask some of the oldsters what is most important, the answer you will get is "kuzushi", which roughly means body positioning and footwork. Nothing trains kuzushi like Kendo. That said, none of us are going to fall through the AUI (Alternate Universe Interface) and suddenly need to pack a sword on a daily basis, but Kendo is ultimately practical in that you will become dangerous with any stick or reasonable facsimile thereof simply because your timing and precision in striking will become so much better. The same thing could probably be said for European fencing, but I haven't trained much in that discipline.

Even when you take away the sword, an accomplished swordsman is a formidable opponent. The old maxim I've heard repeated is "the katana is the mother of all martial arts." I would agree.
 
I have a lot of respect for those who practice the ancient arts
of breaking ankles and ripping out throats, hearts, brains with bare hands.

Must...stop...laughing...
Heh, yeah that gave me a chuckle too.:)
 
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