semi auto bans are discriminatory

[BammaYankee]

I was at the range recently and there was a gentleman tearing the center out of his target at 15 yards with some 1911 clone. Not unusual except this man was missing part of his other arm from the elbow down.

On the way home I got to thinking that there must be tens of thousands of disabled folks who would be at a serious disadvantage if they were only allowed to have pump, lever, or bolt action rifles/ shotguns. Even revolvers would be a disadvantage if a fast reload is critical.

The only practical self & home defense firearm for these folks as I see it is a high capacity semi auto. Especially since they may be targeted by criminals more often than others.

So, how can the government pass a semi auto ban when it clearly puts disabled folks at a serious disadvantage? Doesn't the RKBA apply to everyone? Has there ever been a court case to address this issue?

 

[Picard]

Assault weapons bans are also discriminatory, banning firearms based on looks rather than function.

 

[jpsimms]

All gun bans are discriminatory. They take them away from us law abiding, average people, and then only the rich and powerful or criminals will have them. All gun bans discriminate

 

[Loosedhorse]

Any firearms ban is discriminatory--against people too poor to hire guards, or too unimportant to rate police details.

 

[BammaYankee]

All points well taken, but this post was not intended as a general indictment of awb's et al. I was wondering specifically if anyone had ever challenged a ban on semi autos (not just aw's) based on, perhaps, the Americans with Disabilities Act? I realize the ADA applies to equal employment opportunity, buy it also stresses the principle of reasonable accomodation.

 

[ColinthePilot]

I gotta wonder how a one-armed man operates a semi-auto pistol. I know its not impossible, I'd just be interested to see it.

 

[brassdog]

I remember picking up a gunsmithing book that was printed in the early 50's. There was an entire chapter devoted to modifying 1911 style pistols for veterans who have lost a hand or arm. One fellow would wield a lug near the front of the slide on the side, about an inch behind the bushing. Then the shooter could use the lug to engage the edge of the table or wall to jack back the slide. Interesting but that is sure going to require alot of muzzle discipline!

 

[BammaYankee]

Brassdog: I didn't get a close look at it to see if there wa a lug or not, but he was using a small wooden table. He would eject the empty mag, lay the pistol on its side (muzzle pointed down range), stick a fresh mag halfway in and use it to roll the pistol on its 'back', then push the mag the rest of the way in and hit the slide release. He must have had a lot of practice because he was very proficient at it!

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

I had a friend who lost a hand in Vietnam. He had high profile target sights on his 1911A1. His gun belt had a reinforcement just ahead of his holster that he hooked the rear sight to work the slide. He'd change magazines by ejecting the empty, clamping the gun between his body and his arm, slamming in a new magazine, and using the slide release to chamber a fresh round. He was fast!

ECS

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The only practical self & home defense firearm for these folks as I see it is a high capacity semi auto. Especially since they may be targeted by criminals more often than others.

People have used double barrel shotguns for a long time, single shot too. I have watched a 1-armed man work a lever gun and a pump shotgun quite well.

So, how can the government pass a semi auto ban when it clearly puts disabled folks at a serious disadvantage? Doesn't the RKBA apply to everyone? Has there ever been a court case to address this issue?

Why do rifle and shotgun makes not make DAO rifles and shotguns?

Banning semi-autos does not put handicapped people at any more of a disadvantage in regard to the RKBA than it does fully functional people. Both sets of people are equally infringed.

 

[BammaYankee]

Double: All valid points!

 

[Richbaker]

Brassdog....the 1911 was designed so the slide could be racked one-handed. Just push the spring plug against on the edge of a table, doorway, whatever and it will rack the slide. JMB thought of everything...
FLGRs won't allow this, just one reason to get rid of it.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Doesn't the RKBA apply to everyone?

Except commoners.

 

[General Geoff]

FLGRs won't allow this,

what is an FLGR?

 

[plainsbilly]

i can rack the slide on a 1911 with one hand. Place hand on top of pistol ball of index finger over ejection port thumb over thumb safety then squeeze,release rapidlyand let pistol fall into firing position. try it its not that hard

 

[Prince Yamato]

I gotta wonder how a one-armed man operates a semi-auto pistol. I know its not impossible, I'd just be interested to see it.

CZ makes a semi-auto that has a serrated cocking mechanism on the top of the slide; it looks like a middle sight. The purpose of this device is so that a wounded soldier can cock the weapon against his clothing or another object if he only has use of one of his hands.

So BamaYankee, you are correct, a semi-auto would seem to be very conducive to the majority with disabilities. (Or at least CZ and the Israeli army think so).

In fact, you may be able to argue against mag-cap bans this way as well. The common argument is that you can just insert another 10 round mag... well what if you are disabled? Wouldn't it be more prudent to have a 20 round mag so you didn't have to reload?

 

[rfurtkamp]

Can do it on most handguns if absolutely needed using the rear sight, a table/corner/hard surface, and engaging the slide lock. I'm sure it'd come pretty easy with practice.

It's also one of the reasons I'm fond of a lot of the pistol caliber carbine/SBR/SMG designs, same thing applies.

As a partial cripple, I look at things a little differently now.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Brassdog....the 1911 was designed so the slide could be racked one-handed. Just push the spring plug against on the edge of a table, doorway, whatever and it will rack the slide. JMB thought of everything...

Unless you have seen design documents that I haven't, there is no indication that JMB designed the 1911 or any other gun to be racked in this manner. It can be racked in that manner just like it can be used to shoot skeet, but there is no indication JMB intended either aspect to be part of the design anymore than he designed and intended for the 1911 to punish users for firing it by having it bite them in the hand with each shot.

 

[jfh]

General Geoff: An FLGR is a Full Length Guide Rod.

Jim H.

 

[Pat-inCO]

So, how can the government pass a semi auto ban when it clearly puts disabled folks at a serious disadvantage? Doesn't the RKBA apply to everyone? Has there ever been a court case to address this issue?

I think you have a solution looking for a problem to solve.

I have a birth defect that puts me in the "disabled" category. What I've found over the last sixty-five years is the the people with two hands are more disabled than I am.

They never seem to learn to think.

 

[PTK]

people with two hands are more disabled than I am.

They never seem to learn to think.

Sounds about right.

 

[Artiz]

TOTALLY, and here in Canada a semi-auto is just known as a black bad thing and is associated with mass murderer, so the october 14th elections we need to get a conservative majority and then, Harper will give us back our full mag capacity, gun rights we had in the past and a CCW (and maybe OC) would be possible.

 

[brassdog]

As I said before, I read the "lug trick" in an old gunsmithing book that was published in the 50's.
I'm sure that most disabled people can figure out something on their own since it's only the body that's disabled not the brain running it.
Sure JMB was pretty smart but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he figured everything out. I'm not surprised that the 1911 lends itself handily to one handed use (groanno pun intended) since it was designed to be a cavalry weapon.
As for the semi auto ban being discriminatory, I think that that was an unintended consequence since most people tend to think that disabled people are harmless or incapable of taking care of themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth and nothing irritates a person more than being told they're not capable of doing things.

 

[Loosedhorse]

A precedent of sorts...

I suspect nearly all of you know the name Ed Mireles, the hero of the FBI Miami shoot-out. One of the many noteworthy things he accomplished during that fight was figure out how to work a pump-action shotgun with one arm, the other having been flayed open by a .223 round. (So much for not being able to learn new skills in an emergency!)

When he later returned to duty, Mireles was, for a time, the ONLY FBI agent issued a semi-auto shotgun (with a long shotshell tube).

I think that this precedent might put someone on good ground claiming that an AWB covering high-cap semi-auto shotguns needs an "out" for one-armed users--just like the automatic knife statutes have.

(What kind of thread is this--you've got me writing a new and improved AWB!)

Of course, this reasoning should have also applied to the '84 ban, yet we know of no challenges along these lines.

 

[Army]

Gun control, isn't about guns.