What makes a shotgun so much better for home defense than a 5.56 semi auto?

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ENERGY
12 gauge Buckshot 1 1/4 oz. load at 1300 fps. energy 1472 foot pounds

12 gauge 1 oz slug at 1500 fps energy 2140 foot pounds

.223 55 gr bullet at 3200 fps energy 1171 foot pounds

You make the choice
RDH
 
Not only have I fired thousands- and thousand more- rounds of 5.56x45mm, I have also tested penetration in media from a lightweight .223 HP.

Penetration was less than any 9mm, even the Triton Quik-Shok (from a short barrel .The QS was the least penetrative 9 tested, though.)

We've had this damned conversation over and over on this board. Lightweight and fragile high speed bullets will tend to penetrate less in tissue than slower, sturdier bullets. There are no magic bullets. Examples exist of people not being immediately stopped by heavy crew-served weapons, so get over any ideas of your magic buckshot making an aggressor go backward in time when hit.

Go out and shoot something, make good decisions based on your budget and experience, and talk less about stuff you aren't willing to invest even a few bucks into testing.

john
 
Wow - all the major points have been made to counter the usual shotgun cliches.

My two cents - just go to a shotgun match or a threegun and see folks miss and mess up the racking of the gun.

I certainly don't disrespect my 1300 and wouldn't feel in trouble if I had to use it but I go for my AR first for the zombies.

Most folks are moving towards the carbine as the self-defense long arm from my traveling circle.
 
There are a number of exceptions to lower IQ's of inmates in prison. In OH DRC there were 12 Mensa classed inmates in 1990. Their general profiles indicated they could "Beat the System" sim. They were extremely sociopathic and felt any of their associates were always well below their level of intelligence. We, the general public probably are but they are the ones that got caught. I know of only one that was caught outright, the others got rolled over by their sub-human associates.
 
JShirley wrote :
We've had this damned conversation over and over on this board. Lightweight and fragile high speed bullets will tend to penetrate less in tissue than slower, sturdier bullets. There are no magic bullets. Examples exist of people not being immediately stopped by heavy crew-served weapons, so get over any ideas of your magic buckshot making an aggressor go backward in time when hit.

Go out and shoot something, make good decisions based on your budget and experience, and talk less about stuff you aren't willing to invest even a few bucks into testing.
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Agree.

Now I have somethings to add.

- I am not going to be racking a shotgun, jacking a lever action on a carbine, or pulling the bolt on a carbine to scare anyone!
Why in the hell would I want to give away the fact I am there, and where I am ?
I don't!
Same folks that "rack that puppy to scare the BGs" are the ones being ever so slow, careful and trying to be quiet when they are deer hunting.
It does not matter what kind of gun, out hunting, everything is LOUD!
I mean just easing a safety off in the woods and HEY EVERYBODY! This is Spike Buck and we got a hunter in the tree stand near such-n-such trail!

- Handguns.

Ya'll got a problem with handguns or what?
Why is it always the Shotgun vs Rifle?

Too . Many. Variables.

The snub nose revolver, with dedicated .38spls, *might* be the best Home Defense firearm for certain situations.

I was taught to NOT box myself into a corner by being blind to any and all "tools" in the toolbox.
I was taught to NOT subscribe to only ONE way to do something with only ONE tool.

I was taught to think out of the box, be flexible, improvise, adapt, overcome.

Hell a broom might even be the right tool for the task in a home defense situation.
 
My late night quip about dozers v BMWs aside, I think what you're seeing here is the same thing you'll see every time you ask this question: "the answer" depends on who you ask, and there is no "right" answer except, "It depends".

I also have to agree with sm about being flexible, etc, and not discounting handguns in certain situations.

IMO, the key - for me, at least - is to ask all the questions you want (that's what we are here for) and gain all the experiences you can to decide which choice is best for YOU.

IMO, being comfortable with a gun, feeling confident that you can use it well, and practicing til the cows come home is far more important than which one shoots projectiles with greater velocity or more energy, or holds more rnds, or sends 9 pellets downrange v one, etc, etc, etc.
 
In selecting my HD guns, I gave some thought to what would happen afterwards, should I ever have to shoot.

That's why my main home defense gun is a Mossberg 500. To be specific, a blue, wooden stocked, five shot magazine, 18.5" cylinder bore barrel with rifle sights. No light, no sidesaddle, nothing black, nothing tacticool.

It looks like a deer gun. It is a deer gun. I plan to take it out this year and kill a deer with it just so I can frame a picture of me with the shotgun and some dead game.

If I should ever find myself calling 911 while someone is bleeding all over my floor, the smoking gun isn't going to be an evil black anything, rifle or shotgun. The cops are going to see my deer gun. At any further steps of the legal process, I am going to be the poor guy who had to shoot someone with his deer gun.

I'm not taking a chance on encountering a grand jury full of Zumbos.;)
 
At any further steps of the legal process, I am going to be the poor guy who had to shoot someone with his deer gun.
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"Members of the jury, the defendant, by his own admission, has stated that he grabbed his "deer gun" to shoot the victim. As stated earlier, one of the fundamental rules of gun safety, as quoted by the defendant earlier, was the one needs to be sure of the one's target. One would think that someone who had the foresight to keep a loaded shotgun, be it a "deer gun" or not, for home defense would have the foresight to realize that such an encounter may occur at night. When asked by officers the night of the shooting if he had a light on his shotgun, the defendant stated that this shotgun was only a "deer gun." If that is the case, I ask you why the defendant kept such a gun, ill-equipped for properly identifying a suspected intruder in the dark, loaded and at ready to be used in such a scenario. How could he be sure of his target? Why, the intruder could have been anyone, a pet, a sleepwalking family member, or in this case, simply a 15 year old neighborhood kid who ran afoul through a combination of underage drinking and being dropped off at the wrong house. Unfortunately, the defendant, while prepared to kill to defend his house, was not prepared to spend a few extra dollars to obtain the proper training and equipment for home defense. Any number of self-defense experts will tell you that a light for proper target identification is crucial to avoid tragedy. It was this partial commitment, the desire to keep a loaded "deer gun" for intruders but not invest in the proper equipment for home defense that resulted in the tragic death of this young boy. True, the victim shouldn't have been in that house. True, the victim shouldn't have been drinking to the point of drunkenness, especially under age. But does that warrant being shot by a neighbor who couldn’t' be bothered to identify his target? That is why, despite the lack of malice aforethought by the defendant, you must find still find the guilty of negligent homicide in the death of this poor child. As you retire to deliberate the facts, keep in mind that the defendant, a self-admitted firearms enthusiast, could have prevented this tragedy by simply purchasing a $50 flashlight designed to prevent such things. Certainly if someone was so concerned their safety to keep a loaded shotgun nearby, they would make sure it was properly equipped. Ask yourselves, would you as a reasonable person, spend $50 to ensure that you didn’t accidentally kill a child? Wouldn't you want to illuminate the target, being able to tell the difference between a violent home intruder and a child that simply made a mistake? I know I would…"

There's no way a lawyer could ever twist your "deer gun" into being a bad thing. ;)
 
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Jorg, that was freakin' awesome.

And if somebody DID use an AK or a combat shotgun or any other "scary" weapon, your own defense lawyer can argue that you chose the best weapon for the job, assuming it was a good shoot anyway.

So it goes both ways.

Back on topic, I only have an Century Romanian AK and that's what I'd use for home defense. If I get a shotgun, it HAS to be semi auto. To hell with pump action. I want to double tap.
 
I think there is too much emphasis on the tool and not the tool user.

If you are proficient in both then it doesn't matter which you use and if you are not proficient in either one then it may also not matter but for the opposite reason.

Whatever you hit the bad guy with should work - if its doesn't hit them again until they stop.

Really in my house at night (safe neighborhood, not expecting to be invaded by multiple intruders) a revolver with an extra full moon clip makes me feel secure enough.
 
Folks should attend a trial and pay attention and learn from it.
I have been the Foreman, regular member of a jury, involved in other ways, and just sat to watch.

Jorg wrote a great post.

No matter what one does, they are going to relive the events.
Sexual Assault, Rape, Assault with a Deadly weapon [which might just be a fireplace poker as that was what that person could grab being in a struggle to survive) to you name it.

I've seen black rifles in a courtroom and nobody bat an eye.
I've seen a baseball bat with nails driven into it that got folks to jump back in their seats, hands to faces, and sounds of sighs, yelps and all...

Problem 2 is something one wants to avoid in the first place, this is the key.
 
A shotgun is easier to "top off" with ammo, offers a wider selection of projectiles and also offers the option of changing projectile type in mid-engagement as needed.
 
The AR might be better...

...but its hard to justify $1000+ when comparing it to my gunshow $100 pump shotty (that cycles/works just fine).
 
A shotgun is easier to "top off" with ammo, offers a wider selection of projectiles and also offers the option of changing projectile type in mid-engagement as needed.
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I respectfully disagree with you. First off, I can swap mags on my AR many times faster than I can thread rounds into my 870, particularly under stress. Secondly, under stress, I want rounds going downrange, and to hell with options. Having had real combat experience, I can tell you that out in the field with a battalion around you, being able to select appropriate projectiles is plausible. Fighting for my life inside my townhouse, it is not.

That said, I generally agree that the shotgun is the best tool, although as it happens, my AR sits not two feet away from me, locked and loaded and on safe. Part of the reason why that is is that I am not particularly concerned about over-penetration. Why? Because darn anything that shoots, to include arrows, will go through the wall that joins my townhouse with my neighbors. Of course, I don't want to shoot an intruder and my neighbor in one fell swoop, but the simple fact is that buckshot and pheasant loads; .22LR, .357, .380, 9mm, and .45 ACP rounds and finally 7.62x39 and .223 rounds (all plausible defense rounds in my house between my roommate and I) will all fly right through the wall into his house if that happens to be the direction I am shooting. Luckily, the angles are such that it would be relatively unlikely I would have to shoot towards his walls. Unluckily, any crook bullets that miss me will likely find their way into his house.

I would also add that I have a bad shoulder, and buckshot is a little too much for me to handle when it comes to training. .223 is not. I feel perfectly confident that I have the skills to shoot accurately with my rifle under stress. Recoil is generally not a concern under stress, but lack of effective training is. That isn't to say that I don't feel confident with a shotgun in defense conditions because I do, but I still would rather be shooting what I train with. It is also important to note that defensive shotgunnery still requires aiming, as a shotgun is not a magic death-wand. Recent magazine tests have proven rather conclusively that you can actually miss with buckshot pretty easily if your just spraying and praying. Perhaps your aim can be general as opposed to pin-point, but you still need to be properly aiming if you want to make hits.
 
The best weapon is the one that you are the most proficient at. Nothing else really matters. Both will do the job. It all boils down to personal preference.

Software not Hardware wins fights.

Jeff
 
Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg


Why is it some of the most basic stuff gets rehashed here over and over.....
 
Hell a broom might even be the right tool for the task in a home defense situation.
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oleg's got a nice pic of a tactical broom in one of his recent posters :)
 
Is the diameter of the broom 9mm or .45 inches?

As far as changing shotgun load types in midfight - when has that ever happened in real life? Sounds like a tac reload vs reload with retention argument.

I've tried in in classes but at inside the house distances - why?

Some nut is holding your wife hostage and you tell him to wait till you get the slug in the gun?
 
I *keep* slugs in my 870. I shoot minute of paper plate at 100 yards with it. Figure it'll do in the house.

Biker
 
Hypothetically speaking, I'm Johnny Crackhead, and I bust into your shotgun house. I'm looking around at your 56" plasma TV when I hear a shotgun cycled. Well, I know whereabouts you are now, and I draw my pistol from my utra XX baggy pants (actually, I drew from my underroos cuz my pants are down off my ass). We meet in the hallway, you shoot first with your shotgun, damn, that kinda winded me I'm thinking as your shot hits me in my $50 Ebay body armor. I shoot back. Not so good for you now.
 
If you need more than 5 rounds out of a shotgun to handle an intruder, you've got a serious problem.:uhoh::eek: It should only take one round, two max. I think the tactical reload scenario is rediculous, especially since you're only dealing with a single intruder 99% of the time. Do you really think you'll need 12 rounds of 45 ACP or 6 shotgun rounds?? Come on!
 
Regarding chambering a round in a shotgun, I am reminded of Robert Ruark. Someone told him a bolt action was dangerous, because a dangerous animal can see you working the bolt. He responded, "The animal that sees me work a bolt will never see anything else again."
 
Why is it some of the most basic stuff gets rehashed here over and over.....
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Because for some it isn't a rehash, for others a rehash covers new material or old material with a fresh point of view and last but not least there's no fun in doing a search, reading a 3 year old thread, wishing to comment on something and thinking if you do you're going to be reviving the dead (oooohhh - oooooohhh! zombie thread).

*keep* slugs in my 870. I shoot minute of paper plate at 100 yards with it. Figure it'll do in the house.

Biker
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Me too - minute of paper plate at 100 yards with slugs that is but MAN! it hurts to shoot those things - which makes them not even close to being my first choice for HD.
 
If you need more than 5 rounds out of a shotgun to handle an intruder, you've got a serious problem. It should only take one round, two max. I think the tactical reload scenario is rediculous, especially since you're only dealing with a single intruder 99% of the time. Do you really think you'll need 12 rounds of 45 ACP or 6 shotgun rounds?? Come on!
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070621/lo_wkmg/13542239
Orange County sheriff's investigators said at least three people broke into a home
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http://www.wftv.com/news/13534806/detail.html?rss=orlc&psp=news
Three Armed Men Barge Into Home, Steal Victim's Car
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http://www.wkrn.com/nashville/news/neighbor-pulls-gun-on-home-invaders-overnight/102222.htm

Want to retract your statement?

I also object to your statement that being able to change the loads with the shotgun is ridiculous. In a gunfight, anything can happen. If you've got the tools at your disposal, why not have the option available. Also, at a bare minimum, the shotgun can be topped off while in a ready status, whereas a magazine fed semi-auto has to be disabled to be reloaded or "topped off".

(PS, it only took me 3 minutes to find those 3 stories, each with 3 home invaders.....)
 
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