Snub .357/38 vs. .380 auto

[snooperman]

Christcorp has a sound message and good advice...

that the revolver is very hard to beat. I have been carrying my Colt detective 6 shot snubbie 38 special for about 35 years and it gives me comfort to know it is much more reliable than a semiauto. I have friends who carry semiautos, and to each his own on this , but I personally think you can not beat the reliablilty of the wheelgun when you need it. Try getting a copy of Ed Lovettes excellent book on "The snubbie revolver" and he will convince you with many years of experiences and case studies using this type of gun for self defense.

 

[easyg]

I want my mind to concentrate on the intruder. I don't want my mind or my wife's mind to be thinking about the gun. Is it loaded, is their a round in the magazine, did I turn off the safety, maybe I should look, etc... At 2am and your brain like that, is where accidents happen. With a revolver, it's point and click. No thinking about the gun.

While I like revolvers, this really isn't a good argument against all autoloaders.

With handguns like the Glock, Springfield Armory XD, S&W M&P, Kahr, etc...
Load the magazine, chamber a round, put handgun in holster, and forget about it until you need it.

And when you need it....

Draw, point, shoot....just like a revolver.
Nothing else to consider.

 

[SaxonPig]

Number 85.
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“Snub” 38 revolver vs. 380 auto?

85. My 380 FEG (a Walther PP clone) is almost the exact same size as a J frame S&W with a 2”barrel… virtually no difference in length, height and width. The FEG has an alloy frame and seems to weigh about the same as the Smith. I had a Walther PPK in steel and it was very heavy for such a small pistol. Too heavy for me and I sold it.

As for power, the best 380 factory loads (something like a 90 grain JHP at around 900 FPS) are a little behind the best 38 Special ammo available (a 125 JHP at a similar velocity, about 900). With custom loads the 38 far surpasses the 380. My 38 Special carry load is a 125@1,100 clocked from my 2” guns.

Advantage goes to the auto in capacity at 7 rounds vs. 5 for the revolver. An extra magazine lies flat and is faster to reload than any revolver loader. To me the revolver carries better being more rounded while the auto feels “boxy” in concealment.

I have carried both, could live with either, but tend to favor the revolver. You choose your own medicine.

 

[gym]

I carried a model 60 and a walther PPKS, from 1975 to 1994 in NYC. The main reason was the size. They were the smallest guns that carried enough power to make sense at the time. That no longer is the case. The only reason LEO's and civilians didn't carry more powerful off duty handguns, were that there weren't any. If it was now, that would not be the case. It' a no brainer. If you can carry a small 9mm that is smaller or the same size as a 380 was back in the day, there would be no gun savvy person who would step down to a 380. A 38 +p is ok, but why go smaller when you don't have to compromise size for power anymore. I carry the largest caliber I can in the smallest package possible until it becomes prohibitive for where I am going. That is just old fashioned common sense. Why folks feel they need 20 rounds with two extra clips is just too much tv. There is no way you are going to have the opportunity to fire 50 rounds in a gunfight unless you are a border patrol agent in on the Mexican border and are pinned down for 8 hours until help arrives. Even then you would need your primary weapon first. My ex brother-in-law carried a high-power a rifle and a shotgun, with a couple thousand rounds in the back of the truck back in the 70-80's. Just in case he got ambushed and had to wait a day or two for help to come. This obsession with mags that carry 20 rounds is just foolishness.

 

[atomd]

People talk like the .38 is way more powerful than a .380. Unless you're using +P rounds I don't think there's a giant world of difference. .357 versus .38+P from a 2" barrel isn't exactly a game changer either. Shot placement is though.

 

[Harvey]

Seems odd that the 1911 gunners haven't chimed in. Anyone proficient with the best-ever handgun platform would naturally pick the Colt Mustang as the best pocket pistol. It's time tested, reliable, accurate and runs with 1911 controls. And you just can't beat that crisp, quick single-action trigger pull. Slip a cocked & locked nickel Mustang into a nice wallet holster and drop an extra mag in your front pocket if you want. A fine pistol that hides well and feels soooo good. Soooo right.

And don't tell me that +P .380 doesn't hurt.

 

[christcorp]

People talk like the .38 is way more powerful than a .380. Unless you're using +P rounds I don't think there's a giant world of difference. .357 versus .38+P from a 2" barrel isn't exactly a game changer either. Shot placement is though.

If you believe that it's all about kinetic energy: Ek=p(2)/2m ; then you are totally correct. However; when a 38 special on average has about 50% more weight/mass behind it, you get a lot greater penetration. When we see muzzle energy listed for a bullet, it's simply mathematics. And that math changes dramatically the moment there is an impairment to the forward velocity of an item. So even if we try and get close mathematically with a 95 grain 380 @ 955 fps and 190 ft/lbs; and a 130 grain 38spl @ 800 fps and 185 ft/lbs; the larger 130 grain 38spl bullet will retain MORE of it's energy and therefor have more penetration. And that is what you need. The numbers of FPS and Ft/Lbs is all mathematical. But penetration is physics. And heavier items retain their forward momentum better than lighter items. Thus, the reason why a 900 fps 230 grain 45acp has been one of the most successful rounds ever created. The mass is great enough, that it is one of the FEW cartridges that the experts even agree can use FMJ or LRN for self defense and it's perfectly acceptable and efficient. You don't need the hollow point to slow it down for over penetration, and the existing diameter is greater than the majority of other calibers even with hollow points that have expanded.

Anyway; the 38 special is definitely a better caliber than the 380. Not that the 380 is a bad defensive cartridge. It's perfectly fine. I even have no problem trusting my 32acp for self defense. But the 38 spl is better for penetration. Of course, we're talking about all other things being equal. A 3" barrel on a 380 is going to neutralize a 2" barrel on the 38 special. However, you take a 150-158 grain 38 special (Not +P) from a 3-4" revolver, against a 95 grain 380 in a 2.5-3" semi-auto, and even though the 380 is going 955 fps and the 38spl is only going 855 fps; the 38spl is going to have much better penetration. Now if you have the same weight bullet in both rounds, it will definitely be much closer. However, the 38spl would have a lot more powder behind it compared to the little bit in the 380. Anyway, the 38spl is in my opinion significantly better than the 380.

 

[ROGER4314]

I let the weather determine what I carry. Houston is hot and humid. During the worst of the summer, I carry a Model 36 in 38 spl, S&W 640 in .357 in a fanny pack. That fanny pack is great as I can stash my wallet in it, too. In Houston, you'll sweat your wallet completely soaked through!

At any other time, I carry a Keltec P3AT or Ruger LCP in my right pants pocket.

We are big on beaches here. At the beach I'll carry a tiny .22 magnum revolver.

Carry small but carry always.

Flash

 

[Fastcast]

As for me, I'll take 14 rounds of .380 in a Beretta 84 or 13 in a CZ83/82 anyday over 5 - .38s from a snubby.

You better hope there's only one perp. If not, don't miss and if you do hit they better be very good ones.

TIME OUT PLEASE......I need to reload. lol

 

[AK103K]

The .38/.357 may be more potent than the .380's, the problem with them, and especially in the smaller, lighter guns, is the platform itself. Those little snubbies can be a bear to shoot well with using full power loads, especially when you try to draw and shoot quickly, and as the distance opens up. An equivalent sized .380 is usually a lot easier to shoot well with.

If you choose the snubbies, you really need to shoot them on a regular basis to stay on top of them, and thats with ammo that you intend to carry in them, or an equivalent powered reload. Practice usually isnt very pleasant, and your results generally degrade quickly the longer you shoot. About 50 rounds at an outing is all I want to put up with these days, and thats hot .38's out of my 642's. I dont even bother with the .357's out of my 60 anymore, its just a waste of time and money. With full power .380's out of my P230's, I can shoot a lot longer, and not see any drop off in performance.

 

[SaxonPig]

Atomd- A 357 far outclasses a 38 regardless of barrel length. The +P clocks less than 900 FPS from my 2" guns. My short M19 shoots factory Magnums with the same bullet weight at nearly 1,200.