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The "new" 10mm craze

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Bob Thompson, Dec 30, 2002.

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  1. Bob Thompson

    Bob Thompson Member

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    I too went for the 10mm handgun cartridge when it first came out but now wonder where it fills the nitch in handguns. For the bigger is better crowd I now shoot .45 super out of an HK full size. I have long been a believer in large bores for self defense but wonder if with proper bullets too much energy will not completely dump in a body, as hunters have known for a long time. My HK would be mostly for severe adverse circumstances where penetration would be needed. Woods carry, etc. I think a proper expanding bullet, especially .40 caliber and above at moderate velocities would dump more energy in a body even if totally penetrating if kept at moderate speeds. I.E. 10mm or .45 ACP @ 900-1000 F.P.S. Why then the new craze over 10mm when it would seem .40 S&W or .45 ACP would suffice. P.S. I sure hope not to start a war here and please consentrate on the energy question.
     
  2. BamBam

    BamBam Member

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    I'd LOVE a 10mm if it wasn't so expensive to shoot. Just because of the power.

    You can find 10mm enthusiasts here:
    http://www.bren-ten.com/
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2002
  3. krept

    krept Member

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    I'd love a 10mm too if I had enough money to afford another pistol.

    BTW, Triton's 450 SMC in a USP is fun :D.

    waittaminute... didja say a new 10mm craze?
     
  4. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    I have two 10MM handguns. They are fun to shoot, flat shooting out to 100 yards,and easy to reload for. I have two .45s and a .40. For basically the same reasons. (They don't shoot as flat as the 10MM, though) I have four 9MM weapons. Same reason.

    For defense, I feel just as well armed with a 9MM as I do with a 10MM, .40, .45. or .480 Ruger.

    I have different guns for fun. If a major manufacturer came our with an 8.5 MM magnum plastic frame DA/SA high capacity, I'd probably buy one. I'd also buy a .25 Super if it was available.
     
  5. Porter Rockwell

    Porter Rockwell Member

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    10mm vs .45 Super??

    The centimeter and the Super are both capable of top loadings of 200s@1400fps so on the surface it would seem that the .45 has the obvious edge. Just for grins what about comparing light and fast loadings?
    The 10mm will run a Nosler 135@1800fps+ which gives a paper energy in excess of 1000fpe and serious splat factor on tissue that's noticably lacking in the heavier and slower loads in both calibers,ie- 230s@1250 from the Super and comparable 10mm loads.
    Where to find a light .45 bullet to compare? How fast can a 155gn .45 be loaded?
    Thanks for the topic, after all these years I still havn't decided which of the two calibers I prefer!
     
  6. AndABeer

    AndABeer Member

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    I see a lot of entheusiasm for the 10mm on many of the online boards but it does not seem to be translating to the gun shops and ranges that I frequent. I'd love for my favorite cartridge to be more popular and hence less expensive but I don't really see it happening any time soon. Hope I am wrong.
     
  7. Glock Glockler

    Glock Glockler Member

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    Hopefully it's not just a craze, it's one of the best damn calibers in the gun world and it's not gotten it's due just yet. Although I might be speaking a bit hypocritically here, since I don't own a 10mm (yet), I think every 10mm fan out there should introduce other shooters to the 10mm so we can spread the faith.

    If we shoot it, it will come (the reign of the 10mm).

    I guess I'm a non-practicing 10mm acolyte.
     
  8. Marcus

    Marcus Member

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    I think a better way to phrase that question is "*why not* a new 10mm craze?". It`s super adaptable for an auto pistol cartridge, it does everything a .45ACP will do plus and it holds more ammo in the same sized gun (stupid idiotic laws not withstanding),it`ll match the .45 Super in power but has a wider selection of bullet weights and better cross sectional density for better penetration, it taught the .40 everything it knows (fitting since the .40 is it`s offspring) and powerwise it`s more than the equal of any good .357 magnum load but with a larger bore. You never hear "why a .357 magnum?" or "is the .357 magnum obsolete?". The 10mm is a great round with a LOT going for it,folks just need for put it in perspective and get over their 10mmphobia. ;) Marcus
     
  9. barnpatrol

    barnpatrol Member

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    The "too much energy will not completely dump in a body" is an efficiency argument. For example, why would 3000 lbs (out of a possible 4000) of energy be worse than 2000/2000. I want more energy total, not a better percentage, dumped on the target.
     
  10. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    There will always be pistoleros who enjoy full power bullets. Part of the reason why the 10 mm lost it's initial momentum was the failure of numerous guns (S&W 1076, Colt 10 mm Delta Elite?) because of the hotter load and second, the reducing of power for smaller (FBI) agents. The 10 (as well as the 9mm) was then swept away by the 40 S&W which took LE and the civilian market by storm (I still don't have a 40 but I bought a 40 bbl for my Glock 20). the 10 mm lingered and hopefully this revival will breathe new life into this venerable cartridge.
     
  11. duncan

    duncan Member

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    Wish there was a 10mm craze.

    A couple dozen LEAs do carry and issue 10mm handguns primarily the Glock 20 to their officers.

    That's also my winter carry gun. A Glock 20, stock barrel, 24 # Wolff recoil springs and rod, and a hi cap loaded with 175 grain Win Silvertips. 600 fpe in a concealable gun.

    Also have conversion barrel in 357 sig and 40SW for the Glock 20 too. Very versatile gun. If the chips were down and a 300 pound crackhead in a heavy parka rushes you, that setup will save your bacon.

    Many other caliber will not penetrate deep enough or dump enough energy into the threat. That's why many cops still have shotguns with slugs on board.

    No craze. Just talk. But 10mm is a reloaders round. Seen boxes at sproting goods stores for $25. But it still reloads just as cheap as 45 ACP at less than $4 a box for quality compenents and accuracy like no other.

    The key is most people talk about 10mm and few actually shoot it.

    Get a friend with a 10mm to take you to the range and test various caliber out on old pumpkins from Halloween. 10mm just explodes that puppies.

    I have carried most of the below and happily choose 10mm due to its pentration and expansion in almost any conditions. don't HAVE to go through glass but I know 45 ACP has those problems. That's why the FBI carries 40SW.

    And the FBI would carry 10mm but too many agents are former professional collegaues of mine and are literally still "afraid" of their guns after graduating from the Academy. So they modified the 10mm case and cut the charges down to get the 40SW.

    I'd feel comfortable with 40SW, 357 sig, and 10mm on the street in that order.

    9mm and 45 ACP are great competition rounds but are too light and too slow respectively.

    So if people are asking for more, that's why 10mm keep scoming up.

    It's a REAL smack down go back from whence you came get out of my friggin face and my house and don't come back round. Not that I'm biased or anything;)
     
  12. duncan

    duncan Member

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    Big and fast IS the ticket.

    Just consider deer hunting with .30-06 versus a shotgun slug. The rilfe round takes the deer but bambi can still run 50-100 yards.

    Ever hunt deer with shotgun slugs? Or a Marline 45-70 Guide Gun? They anchor deer those puppies to the ground they stood on. Amazing with the slugs and 405 grain rounds will do to prey.

    Deer usually just DROP so loud you can almost hear the THUMP. And 10mm offers that. 357 sig is a nice round too for two leggeds - I carry it. But it's no 10mm.

    40 super and 45 super and 450 smc are cool but most 45 acp guns were never designed to take much shooting past the 1200 fps range over the life of the gun.

    The key is most people truly are uncomfortable with recoil. So they avoid hard hitting rounds.

    But if you can shoot 357/41/44 mag, you can handle 10mm.With 10mm, you can load from 135 to 220 and shoot as soft as a 45 ACP or go hunting with some nuclear deer slayer rounds. few guns offer that!

    So I guess I am crazy about the 10mm?

    Caught it yet?
     
  13. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    I'm of the "as much power as you can control accurately" and so if that's a 10mm, God bless you.
     
  14. Bob Thompson

    Bob Thompson Member

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    Thanks much folks for all the fine replys. Maybe I will again jump on the 10mm bandwagon. After all a new gun is always a good investment and just plain fun.
     
  15. Peter M. Eick

    Peter M. Eick Member

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    I think you will find the 10mm to be fun, and powerful. Once you get used to it, shooting a 9mm seems like a pop gun, a 40 is a nice push, a 45 is somewhat passe, but a full power 10 round is Exciting.....
     
  16. AndABeer

    AndABeer Member

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    which is an interesting point, though hardly excessive, the recoil of full power loads will make other more standard auto chamberings seem mild and thus easier to shoot, think of the 10 as weight training for your other autos :)
     
  17. agtman

    agtman Member

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    "the failure of numerous guns..."


    This one's another overblown myth. My Smith 1076, like my recently acquired S&W 1006, runs just fine with the "heavy & fast" 10mm loads. Of course, with the hot loads they should be properly sprung.

    My 1076 has some 3000+ rounds thru it and, while not all of those were hot enough to bring down a helicopter, most were well beyond the watered-down velocities of the 10mm "FBI-Lite" (essentially a .40Swishy-Walker load).

    Some early Delta Elites did experience frame cracking, but no one ever accused Colt of using recoil springs that were too strong. Colt quickly fixed the frame-cracking, and the later DEs ran just fine.

    This past fall I put 500 medium-to-hot rounds thru one I acquired from an aquaintance. Ran fine in its stock form. No parts flying hither and yon. No handgrenading. No Kabooms. Quite accurate. In fact, I liked it so much it's now away being customized. Look for a Range Report in, say, 6 months.

    If you're searching for original strength factory 10mm to run thru your pistol, there's no better place to look, IMO, than Texas Ammunition Company. They offer 4 hot 10mm loads, and all of it is NO B.S. 10mm.

    http://www.texas-ammo.com

    Here's a Range Report I did a while back on TAC's "heavy & fast" 200gn loads using 3 different but commonly-owned 10mm pistols.

    http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=84117

    Some comments on "original theory" 10mm and the cartridge's 20 year history, as I see it:

    http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=82893
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2003
  18. Iggy

    Iggy Member

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    New 10mm Pistol on the way

    Check out the Dan Wesson Razorback..

    Series 70 1911 stainless steel..

    Looks like a nice gun...Outstanding customer service and support.

    Start shipping the end of this month..
     
  19. Midnight

    Midnight Member

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    The Dan Wesson Razorback has brought a brief resurgence in 10mm popularity that I really hope sticks. I own a Glock 29 and a SS Colt Delta Elite. A Glock 20 is high on my handgun list :)

    All I can say is "Believe none of the 10mm myths you read, they are all bunk."

    Ammo is $9.00/box bought online.
    Recoil is nothing to be scared of and less painful than a Kel-Tec P11, IMO.
    Ammo IS available, from many sources.
     
  20. Porter Rockwell

    Porter Rockwell Member

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    All STS DW Razorback??

    I apologize if this is somewhat off topic but as I recall the Colts in STS (stainless) had galling problems because of similiar stainless formulas?
    Has DW covered this particular problem?
    Precisely the similiar sts problems were between slide and frame.
    Thank you.
     
  21. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    I support the craze!! I just got a G29!!:)
     
  22. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    I would love to see HP's, CZ's. USP's, Etc., offered in 10MM! I would be a buyer assuming reliablity was no problem.


    Marshall :)
     
  23. stans

    stans Member

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    Early all stainless semi-autos did have some problems with galling. This can be overcome by using different heat treatments on slides and frames or using different alloys. I think by the time Colt introduced the 10mm Delta Elite, they had solved the galling problem.
     
  24. thisaway

    thisaway Member

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    I guess you could say I'm a "10mm crazy" also...I bought my Glock 20 in 1991, one of the first few thousand imported. Also have a S&W 610.

    I grew up seeing the Bren Ten in the "Miami Vice" TV show and just thinking how cool that looked. I decided that I had to have one. Never could find a Bren, so I bought the G20 on my 21st b-day.

    I have never regretted the purchase, and probably use the G20 more than all my other pistols combined.

    The 10mm is a great round, in my opinion.
     
  25. Jspy

    Jspy Member

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    I'm doing my part. Have a new Dan Wesson Razorback on the way. #29 of 150...:D
     
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