Quantcast

Volunteers 'with heat' to support National Guard

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Desertdog, Jan 9, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. carebear

    carebear Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,373
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Arfin,

    I'm just rereading "Pallas" by L. Neil Smith so I'd suggest flight to a properly organized asteroid. But as far as real world goes?

    I don't know.

    It is going to take a paradigm shift in how individual American voting citizens think and ACT. I don't know that enough folks can be brought around to have the proper mindset to make freedom work anymore. Even if they were willing to accept the level of personal responsibility required I don't know that they could be educated in what freedom means and takes quickly enough.

    Airdropping "The Tyranny of the Masses" won't work for folks that can barely read vulgar English, much less translated Spanish.

    The Sagebrush Rebellion was a start, something similar revolving around unchecked illegal immigration issues may work, but that has a real risk of slipping into just violence.

    Mostly now I swing between despair and pretending it will all just go away.
     
  2. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    did you mean this???

    This whole things is so stupid. Other nations with borders FAR smaller and little illegal immigration have armed border posts. Why we don't do this is beyond me.

    um stages? the fact that the other borders are smaller is exactly the point. could you give us your outline for how to secure almost 4000 miles of order? bear in mind this has been done over and over here and thus far no one has been able to crunch the numbers but give it a whirl
     
  3. SamTuckerMTNMAN

    SamTuckerMTNMAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Mountains
    heh Cdaddy

    OK cdaddy you are valiantly fighting for your point...I'll listen to your solution. I have read a lot of rebuffs and things that won't work. Tell me, really, what sort of ideal outcome do you envision. What would it take for you to feel content regarding the issue. I'm sure it's not as bad as just dissolving the borders completely. It's certainly not mine the passes. . . (ha...we made need to get OUT before it's all over, I don't think anyone has thought of that)...so, what is it? Do tell.
    ST
     
  4. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Absolutely! It is ridiculous to expect our recent guests to give up their practices of fighting chickens, running down pet horses and kidnapping/raping underaged females. Its THEIR culture, how can you guys be so intolerant and cruel?

    /sarcasm

    There in lies the rub. With past waves of immigration, that was true. It is NOT holding true with this one. 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation Latino immigrants are NOT assimilating into the culture, as reflected by their continual poor graduation rates from our High Schools.

    Even though it focuses on females, see: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3820/is_200110/ai_n9001364
     
  5. The Real Hawkeye

    The Real Hawkeye member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2004
    Messages:
    4,238
    Location:
    Florida, CSA
    Yes, they adapted because the numbers coming in were tightly controlled. When you allow the flood gates to open and stay open, you do not have adaptation, you have substitution of the preexisting culture with the new one. I think we have a right to ask if it's wise to allow, or encourage, something like that to occur, especially considering the radical views most Mexican illegals seem to possess.
     
  6. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,651
    Location:
    Sunny San Diego
    kidnapping/raping underaged females is part of Hispanic culture now? :confused:
     
  7. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    mostly

    the changes need to happen on the other side of the border. unless you think we can get trroops to fire on women and kids were are in a similar dilema to the war on drugs. in both case we do it backwards. it is my belief we could better apply the resources to helping the mexicans improve their economy so as to reduce the desire/need to leavfe. heck we are already exporting jobs we just need to be a lot more broad thinking. the logistics of trying to secure that much border are worse than that of working to improve the situation on the other side of the border. back when i was a sprout i used to manage rental properties evicting folks took an average of 3 1/2 months. i got smart and started going yup to bad tenants and telling em i'd give em a grand if they were out in 7 days witth the place cleaned up 900 for just out. they jumped on it the principle is the same. i like to think of myself as pragmatic i think arnies health care plan will cost us far less than we are currently paying. as well as pick up the slack for a lot of legal residents.
     
  8. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,440
    Location:
    PRK
    Okay, I'm a math guy. Part of why I love guns...
    I accept the challenge, though I don't think it's the solution.
    4000 miles of border=21,120,000 feet=7,040,000 yards
    So if we figure a M2 can hit out to 100 yards (super conservative!) and a soldier could easily identifty his target out that far...Each gun could cover 200 yards total (left and right)

    7,040,000/200=35,200 guards

    Don't forget many parts of the border are impassable (cliff, etc.)

    How many troops did good ol W just send to Iraq? How many are there? How many border patrol agents are there? How much would it cost to employ 105,600 border guards? (3x8hr shiftsx35,200)

    @$40,000 a year average salary it would be $4,224,000,000... that's right $4 billion, plus supplies and burecratic garbage. $6 billion?

    Where will we get this money? From the money we save? The transportation bill of 2005 allots $250 billion for transportation projects. Maybe we could take some from there?

    Just math, don't start pointing fingers. And God help us if we need to do this to Canada too!
     
  9. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    math

    i suck at math but you need at least 2 guys each post each shift 3 probably better guys don't work 7 days a week either plus all the support infra structure vehicles supervisors roads food all the logistics. you need to massage your numbers more take a look at some of the other borders internationally and see what it takes to secure one. might be able to do a search and get the stats i pulled em once before
     
  10. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,440
    Location:
    PRK
    Yeah, I'll do a bunch of research for a post:banghead: Sorry, too much school for that.

    Just tripple my wages so $12 billion, and tripple my 50% overhead figure from $2 billion to $6 billion. $18 billion dollars. How many hundred of billions have we used in Iraq so far? Oh yeah and ammo, do you think they'd have to use very much ammo? I bet the job would have a very high turn over. Who'd want to sit in a MG nest all day in Arizona heat and do nothing?

    So, I hope that's enough math cdaddy.

    And the real question is; How many illegal aliens would apply for jobs to keep themselves out?:neener:
     
  11. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    figure 1/4 mile apart posts 3 guys in each one and three shifts a day and you need 144000 guys to cover one days shifts.thats a lotta folks and my numbers are likely low
     
  12. ken grant

    ken grant Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    middle Ga.
    I have an idea that will work. Export what jobs we have left in the USA(most good jobs have already been exported) to Mexico. Let the Feds keep up the citizens here with SSI,Welfare,Free medical care,Free rent and etc.
    In order to receive these, the citizens perform public works to keeps things from falling apart.
    Then the only people trying to cross the border would be drug runners and they should be shot on site.
     
  13. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,108
    Location:
    Idaho
    Try this on for size...in '96, the CIS did a study that projected that the average illegal will take $55,000 more out of the system than he puts in over a lifetime.
    Now, about a million a year cross our border. What is 55,000 multiplied by a million?
    Lots, I'm guessing. Pay for a lot of fence? Guards? Interior enforcement?
    Of course, this estimate was done before the proposal to give the illegals SS benefits after working only 10 quarters when the rest of us have to work 40.

    The hits just keep on coming.

    So, math guys, justify this invasion or condemn it.
    Whadaya say?

    Biker
     
  14. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    forgive me

    who is cis? and can i get a look at their study?
     
  15. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,108
    Location:
    Idaho
    Cdaddy...

    The answers to your question can be found at the sites in my sig. You shoulda looked at 'em a long time ago.;)
    CIS=Center For Immigration Studies...

    Biker
     
  16. ken grant

    ken grant Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    middle Ga.
    I live in what used to be a textile town and all the textile plants were working 3 shifts,some 7 days a week. Now none are in operation and 1000's of jobs were lost.
    The last plants in operation brought in workers from Mexico and had the American workers to train them to do their jobs.
    The company paid their way here and rented houses for them while here.
    Now that company has moved their operation to Mexico and the workers here lost their jobs.
     
  17. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Not the only culture that continues the practice, but they are the closest geographically and the source of most of the illegal aliens in this nation.
    There is even a name for it. Rapto.
    All excerpts above from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...node=&contentId=A2420-2002Jun29&notFound=true

    Yep, fine family values there. :barf:

    But hey, aside from a sense of indignation that ANY human being be treated such, its no skin off my nose. I don't have kids. It YOUR daughters and sisters who are the targets.
     
  18. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,651
    Location:
    Sunny San Diego
    Mexicans in general dont advocate raping little girls anymore than Americans do. Cmon man. Is that the best argument you got? "OMG DEY GONNA RAPE ARE WIMMENZ!!!!" .. Nice scare tactic though.

    Didnt we use that one against Blacks a couple years ago?
     
  19. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,108
    Location:
    Idaho
    SS...

    Do you never get tired of throwing out the same ol' pat phrases, cliches and sterotypes that you accuse others of using on the other end of the spectrum?
    Speaking only for myself, the 'white guilt' thing ain't working here.
    Bag it...it queers your argument.

    Biker
     
  20. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Have you not been paying attention in this thread crazed_ss? That is just ONE of many problems this unchecked invasion is bringing to the nation. We also have:

    Downward pressure on wages in the skilled trades like construction, landscaping and meat processing.

    Schools overcrowded with anchor babies and illegal alien children.

    Bankrupt hospitals closing across the country.

    The trashing of the wildlands on our borders. Loss of stock by ranchers and farmers. Homes invaded and families threatened by illegal aliens making the trek to El Norte

    to name a few....
    I did not since I realized in Jr. High the fallacy of the "Cocainized Negros raping white women" arguments. You may have, but that would be...puzzling...if I recall some of your older statements regarding your skin pigmentation correctly.
     
  21. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,651
    Location:
    Sunny San Diego
    No, I dont, because you guys dont present any real arguments.
    Scare tactics about Mexicans raping kids and people crying about signs in Spanish..

    Also.. if you want to talk about pedophilia..
    http://www.worldvision.org/get_invo...s_stp_mexico?Open&lid=Mexico_LN&lpos=rightnav

     
  22. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,651
    Location:
    Sunny San Diego
    Ok, how about stating these problems instead of making outragous claims about Mexican culture?

    Yet, you just used a variation that exact argument.
     
  23. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Granted I'm not a student of history by formal education, but IIRC those arguments about blacks were based on supposed defects in the GENES of that "race" and not the culture they were reared in.
     
  24. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    11,711
    Location:
    North Idaho
    GIGO

    Garbage in, garbage out.

    Where do y'all get 4,000 miles from?

    I have some cool mapping software. I just traced the US/Mexican border which shows as just over 1,500 miles. Accounting for the irregularities, I get just about 1,700 actual miles of fence. No need for a wall along the gulf.

    We're also not discussing the US/Canadian border.

    If it makes you happy, call it 2,000 miles.

    If you're building a wall, you would build it tall enough and strong enough and hostile enough that it would take anyone trying to scale it several minutes even with equipment.

    Deploy drones with cameras. Run a road behind the wall and parallel to it. Put guys in jeeps on that road. Use chaotic scheduling to make prediction difficult, and overlapping beats to avoid gaps.

    Perfect? No. Will some still get through? Yes.

    Will it be hundreds or thousands per day? Not likely.

    If you reduce the influx by 95%, you reduce the services burden by that same factor, you reduce the crime burden by that same factor, you reduce the damage to private property, and you make it possible for a rancher to defend his land without having to confront an APC full of bad guys or having to repair fences and replace livestock destroyed by whole tribes crossing their land at once.

    Hospitals that have closed their ER services (more than 60 in CA alone) can begin to re-open them. Sheriff's departments, currently overloaded and overwhelmed by sheer volumes of crime by illegal occupation can get control of their domains.

    The few that get through become easier to spot and catch.

    The drugs being ferried into the country on that route will have to find another way.

    It's not perfect, but the cost/benefit analysis favors building a wall and manning with mobile armed personnel.

    Now, Mexico wants something from us? Now we have some leverage. They can no longer pretend their problems don't exist. The US bleeds less cash. American teenagers can find jobs in domains that were saturated with virtual slave labor.

    Some stuff will cost more. Another 50 cents for a hamburger? I think I can live with that.

    I believe the cost of NOT doing it is more than the cost of doing it.
     
  25. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,203
    the rest of us were talking both borders

    and we've discussed why both in one of the other threads,when we were discussing how the next batch of terrorists was gonna come in
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice