Volunteers 'with heat' to support National Guard

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Arfin,

I'm just rereading "Pallas" by L. Neil Smith so I'd suggest flight to a properly organized asteroid. But as far as real world goes?

I don't know.

It is going to take a paradigm shift in how individual American voting citizens think and ACT. I don't know that enough folks can be brought around to have the proper mindset to make freedom work anymore. Even if they were willing to accept the level of personal responsibility required I don't know that they could be educated in what freedom means and takes quickly enough.

Airdropping "The Tyranny of the Masses" won't work for folks that can barely read vulgar English, much less translated Spanish.

The Sagebrush Rebellion was a start, something similar revolving around unchecked illegal immigration issues may work, but that has a real risk of slipping into just violence.

Mostly now I swing between despair and pretending it will all just go away.
 
did you mean this???

This whole things is so stupid. Other nations with borders FAR smaller and little illegal immigration have armed border posts. Why we don't do this is beyond me.

um stages? the fact that the other borders are smaller is exactly the point. could you give us your outline for how to secure almost 4000 miles of order? bear in mind this has been done over and over here and thus far no one has been able to crunch the numbers but give it a whirl
 
heh Cdaddy

OK cdaddy you are valiantly fighting for your point...I'll listen to your solution. I have read a lot of rebuffs and things that won't work. Tell me, really, what sort of ideal outcome do you envision. What would it take for you to feel content regarding the issue. I'm sure it's not as bad as just dissolving the borders completely. It's certainly not mine the passes. . . (ha...we made need to get OUT before it's all over, I don't think anyone has thought of that)...so, what is it? Do tell.
ST
 
Requiring certain behavioral and cultural standards is ridiculous
Click to expand...
Absolutely! It is ridiculous to expect our recent guests to give up their practices of fighting chickens, running down pet horses and kidnapping/raping underaged females. Its THEIR culture, how can you guys be so intolerant and cruel?

/sarcasm

1st generation immigrants usually keep their former cultural identity close, but 2nd and 3rd are much adapted.
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There in lies the rub. With past waves of immigration, that was true. It is NOT holding true with this one. 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generation Latino immigrants are NOT assimilating into the culture, as reflected by their continual poor graduation rates from our High Schools.

Even though it focuses on females, see: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3820/is_200110/ai_n9001364
 
1st generation immigrants usually keep their former cultural identity close, but 2nd and 3rd are much adapted.
Click to expand...
Yes, they adapted because the numbers coming in were tightly controlled. When you allow the flood gates to open and stay open, you do not have adaptation, you have substitution of the preexisting culture with the new one. I think we have a right to ask if it's wise to allow, or encourage, something like that to occur, especially considering the radical views most Mexican illegals seem to possess.
 
mostly

the changes need to happen on the other side of the border. unless you think we can get trroops to fire on women and kids were are in a similar dilema to the war on drugs. in both case we do it backwards. it is my belief we could better apply the resources to helping the mexicans improve their economy so as to reduce the desire/need to leavfe. heck we are already exporting jobs we just need to be a lot more broad thinking. the logistics of trying to secure that much border are worse than that of working to improve the situation on the other side of the border. back when i was a sprout i used to manage rental properties evicting folks took an average of 3 1/2 months. i got smart and started going yup to bad tenants and telling em i'd give em a grand if they were out in 7 days witth the place cleaned up 900 for just out. they jumped on it the principle is the same. i like to think of myself as pragmatic i think arnies health care plan will cost us far less than we are currently paying. as well as pick up the slack for a lot of legal residents.
 
Okay, I'm a math guy. Part of why I love guns...
I accept the challenge, though I don't think it's the solution.
4000 miles of border=21,120,000 feet=7,040,000 yards
So if we figure a M2 can hit out to 100 yards (super conservative!) and a soldier could easily identifty his target out that far...Each gun could cover 200 yards total (left and right)

7,040,000/200=35,200 guards

Don't forget many parts of the border are impassable (cliff, etc.)

How many troops did good ol W just send to Iraq? How many are there? How many border patrol agents are there? How much would it cost to employ 105,600 border guards? (3x8hr shiftsx35,200)

@$40,000 a year average salary it would be $4,224,000,000... that's right $4 billion, plus supplies and burecratic garbage. $6 billion?

Where will we get this money? From the money we save? The transportation bill of 2005 allots $250 billion for transportation projects. Maybe we could take some from there?

Just math, don't start pointing fingers. And God help us if we need to do this to Canada too!
 
math

i suck at math but you need at least 2 guys each post each shift 3 probably better guys don't work 7 days a week either plus all the support infra structure vehicles supervisors roads food all the logistics. you need to massage your numbers more take a look at some of the other borders internationally and see what it takes to secure one. might be able to do a search and get the stats i pulled em once before
 
Yeah, I'll do a bunch of research for a post:banghead: Sorry, too much school for that.

Just tripple my wages so $12 billion, and tripple my 50% overhead figure from $2 billion to $6 billion. $18 billion dollars. How many hundred of billions have we used in Iraq so far? Oh yeah and ammo, do you think they'd have to use very much ammo? I bet the job would have a very high turn over. Who'd want to sit in a MG nest all day in Arizona heat and do nothing?

So, I hope that's enough math cdaddy.

And the real question is; How many illegal aliens would apply for jobs to keep themselves out?:neener:
 
figure 1/4 mile apart posts 3 guys in each one and three shifts a day and you need 144000 guys to cover one days shifts.thats a lotta folks and my numbers are likely low
 
I have an idea that will work. Export what jobs we have left in the USA(most good jobs have already been exported) to Mexico. Let the Feds keep up the citizens here with SSI,Welfare,Free medical care,Free rent and etc.
In order to receive these, the citizens perform public works to keeps things from falling apart.
Then the only people trying to cross the border would be drug runners and they should be shot on site.
 
Try this on for size...in '96, the CIS did a study that projected that the average illegal will take $55,000 more out of the system than he puts in over a lifetime.
Now, about a million a year cross our border. What is 55,000 multiplied by a million?
Lots, I'm guessing. Pay for a lot of fence? Guards? Interior enforcement?
Of course, this estimate was done before the proposal to give the illegals SS benefits after working only 10 quarters when the rest of us have to work 40.

The hits just keep on coming.

So, math guys, justify this invasion or condemn it.
Whadaya say?

Biker
 
Cdaddy...

The answers to your question can be found at the sites in my sig. You shoulda looked at 'em a long time ago.;)
CIS=Center For Immigration Studies...

Biker
 
I live in what used to be a textile town and all the textile plants were working 3 shifts,some 7 days a week. Now none are in operation and 1000's of jobs were lost.
The last plants in operation brought in workers from Mexico and had the American workers to train them to do their jobs.
The company paid their way here and rented houses for them while here.
Now that company has moved their operation to Mexico and the workers here lost their jobs.
 
kidnapping/raping underaged females is part of Hispanic culture now?
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Not the only culture that continues the practice, but they are the closest geographically and the source of most of the illegal aliens in this nation.
REYESHOGPAN, Mexico -- These gorgeous mountain slopes in central Mexico, blooming with black pepper plants and golden cornstalks, camouflage the sorrow of the two silent sisters. Antonia and Isabel Francisco Melendez, who were born deaf, are nine months pregnant, and the doctors treating them say they were raped.

The sisters, who cannot speak, cry and crumple, and literally fold up, when asked how they got pregnant. Their babies are due at the same time, within a week or so. Do they know the man? Did it happen in the fields on their way home from school? Isabel seemed to try to answer once, to her grandmother, by pointing to a spot high on a mountainside before tears streamed down her face and she turned away again.

Antonia is 13 years old, and Isabel 16. Perhaps if they were older, the pregnancies would have been easier to keep secret, the way rapes and beatings of women are usually dealt with in Mexico. But in this little town of fewer than 500 people, a place where the church bells toll every afternoon at 5 to call everyone to say the rosary, the reality is hard to hide. The girls' tiny frames swell more each day. Their backs and legs are sore -- not from playing tag with schoolmates, but because their bodies are telling them they will soon be mothers.

"This is a crime and there should be an investigation," said Juana Maria Diego Victor, a community leader in this village 85 miles northeast of Puebla city. "Someone should protect these girls."
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There is even a name for it. Rapto.
In the southern state of Oaxaca last summer, the one-year-old, government-funded Oaxacan Women's Institute persuaded the legislature to pass heavy criminal penalties against a practice known as "rapto." Laws in most Mexican states define rapto as a case where a man kidnaps a woman not for ransom, but with the intent of marrying her or to satisfy his "erotic sexual desire." The new law championed by the women's group established penalties of at least 10 years in prison.

But in March, the state legislature reversed itself and again made the practice a minor infraction. A key legislator -- a man -- argued for the reduction, calling the practice harmless and "romantic."
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All excerpts above from: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...node=&contentId=A2420-2002Jun29&notFound=true

Yep, fine family values there. :barf:

But hey, aside from a sense of indignation that ANY human being be treated such, its no skin off my nose. I don't have kids. It YOUR daughters and sisters who are the targets.
 
Mexicans in general dont advocate raping little girls anymore than Americans do. Cmon man. Is that the best argument you got? "OMG DEY GONNA RAPE ARE WIMMENZ!!!!" .. Nice scare tactic though.

Didnt we use that one against Blacks a couple years ago?
 
SS...

Do you never get tired of throwing out the same ol' pat phrases, cliches and sterotypes that you accuse others of using on the other end of the spectrum?
Speaking only for myself, the 'white guilt' thing ain't working here.
Bag it...it queers your argument.

Biker
 
Have you not been paying attention in this thread crazed_ss? That is just ONE of many problems this unchecked invasion is bringing to the nation. We also have:

Downward pressure on wages in the skilled trades like construction, landscaping and meat processing.

Schools overcrowded with anchor babies and illegal alien children.

Bankrupt hospitals closing across the country.

The trashing of the wildlands on our borders. Loss of stock by ranchers and farmers. Homes invaded and families threatened by illegal aliens making the trek to El Norte

to name a few....
Didnt we use that one against Blacks a couple years ago?
Click to expand...
I did not since I realized in Jr. High the fallacy of the "Cocainized Negros raping white women" arguments. You may have, but that would be...puzzling...if I recall some of your older statements regarding your skin pigmentation correctly.
 
Downward pressure on wages in the skilled trades like construction, landscaping and meat processing.

Schools overcrowded with anchor babies and illegal alien children.

Bankrupt hospitals closing across the country.

The trashing of the wildlands on our borders. Loss of stock by ranchers and farmers. Homes invaded and families threatened by illegal aliens making the trek to El Norte
Click to expand...
Ok, how about stating these problems instead of making outragous claims about Mexican culture?

I did not since I realized in Jr. High the fallacy of the "Cocainized Negros raping white women" arguments.
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Yet, you just used a variation that exact argument.
 
GIGO

Garbage in, garbage out.

Where do y'all get 4,000 miles from?

I have some cool mapping software. I just traced the US/Mexican border which shows as just over 1,500 miles. Accounting for the irregularities, I get just about 1,700 actual miles of fence. No need for a wall along the gulf.

We're also not discussing the US/Canadian border.

If it makes you happy, call it 2,000 miles.

If you're building a wall, you would build it tall enough and strong enough and hostile enough that it would take anyone trying to scale it several minutes even with equipment.

Deploy drones with cameras. Run a road behind the wall and parallel to it. Put guys in jeeps on that road. Use chaotic scheduling to make prediction difficult, and overlapping beats to avoid gaps.

Perfect? No. Will some still get through? Yes.

Will it be hundreds or thousands per day? Not likely.

If you reduce the influx by 95%, you reduce the services burden by that same factor, you reduce the crime burden by that same factor, you reduce the damage to private property, and you make it possible for a rancher to defend his land without having to confront an APC full of bad guys or having to repair fences and replace livestock destroyed by whole tribes crossing their land at once.

Hospitals that have closed their ER services (more than 60 in CA alone) can begin to re-open them. Sheriff's departments, currently overloaded and overwhelmed by sheer volumes of crime by illegal occupation can get control of their domains.

The few that get through become easier to spot and catch.

The drugs being ferried into the country on that route will have to find another way.

It's not perfect, but the cost/benefit analysis favors building a wall and manning with mobile armed personnel.

Now, Mexico wants something from us? Now we have some leverage. They can no longer pretend their problems don't exist. The US bleeds less cash. American teenagers can find jobs in domains that were saturated with virtual slave labor.

Some stuff will cost more. Another 50 cents for a hamburger? I think I can live with that.

I believe the cost of NOT doing it is more than the cost of doing it.
 
the rest of us were talking both borders

and we've discussed why both in one of the other threads,when we were discussing how the next batch of terrorists was gonna come in
 
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