Warning: Do not use Tula .308!!! This is why!!!

[Jackal]

To put this theory to rest, this Enfield has never shown any signs of excessive headspace, no bulged primers, no sticky extraction, nothing. I have fired hundreds of rounds of Brown Bear, which is steel cased. This one particular round had very heavy recoil and a much sharper muzzle blast. It was an ammunition malfunction. I am glad that I did not fire this round through a more modern designed weapon, many of which have little in the way of gas flow protection (because modern ammo cant go bang, bang, KABOOM!:banghead:.

 

[GWARGHOUL]

If you will go to the trouble to find out what other labels Tula ammo may carry I'm willing to avoid shooting this stuff.

Uh... Herter's 7.62x39 is Tula.. and I think theres some generic stuff in a white box, I forgot the name.. its also Tula.

The local indoor range has banned ALL Tul ammo. Due to squib loads and such.

 

[1KPerDay]

Never seen a case fail at that spot.

I have...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=595460

Herter's .308 in an Ishy Enfield. Luckily I wasn't hurt at all.

I won't shoot any more through my ishy, that's for sure. And probably no more through any other rifle.

 

[diesel]

tula ammo fail

hi, i was juat reading your post is this the same tula that is sold at wally world?
i usually use tula 7.62-39 for my ak
i have been noticeing some of the rds flash at the muzzle and some dont,
i never really thought about it till now

 

[Jeff F]

To put this theory to rest, this Enfield has never shown any signs of excessive headspace, no bulged primers, no sticky extraction, nothing. I have fired hundreds of rounds of Brown Bear, which is steel cased. This one particular round had very heavy recoil and a much sharper muzzle blast. It was an ammunition malfunction. I am glad that I did not fire this round through a more modern designed weapon, many of which have little in the way of gas flow protection (because modern ammo cant go bang, bang, KABOOM!:banghead:.

I still stand behind what I said. So you have shot lots of Brown Bear and gotten away with it. Tula is not Brown Bear and steel casings are not all made from the same steel. Keep all the unfired Tula and send it in for testing along with the round with the blown case head if you wish, I guess its possible it could have been an overcharged round, but if it were I would expect more damage then just a case head blowout.

 

[Jibs]

I just ordered 500 rounds of Tula .223 steel case ammo for my mini 14. Hope its not the ammo, but the gun's fault. Hope that thing heals up nicely for you.

 

[diesel]

tula is about the cheapest ak ammo i can find here in kentucky 5bucks a box
wolf is going for about 8 to 9 a box, but after seeing that 308 case i think i will switch to wolf in my centurion39

 

[animator]

hi, i was juat reading your post is this the same tula that is sold at wally world?
i usually use tula 7.62-39 for my ak
i have been noticeing some of the rds flash at the muzzle and some dont,
i never really thought about it till now

I wouldn't consider that to be anything to be alarmed about.

 

[diesel]

the muzzle flash? i wander how many other failures tula has had

 

[diesel]

animator

i did notice a more consistant flash with wolf ammo
i have a thread on here called centurion39 ak .
i was having some issues with my new ak boltcarrier peening just wandering if the ammo (tula) played a role

 

[animator]

i did notice a more consistant flash with wolf ammo
i have a thread on here called centurion39 ak .
i was having some issues with my new ak boltcarrier peening just wandering if the ammo (tula) played a role

Muzzle flash variations are not a way to determine an ammunition's performance or quality, and the ammunition is certainly not going to cause the concern your other thread is referring to.

 

[diesel]

good to hear tula ammo is quite accurate in my ak, wolf is just as good just more expensive when your shooting a couple hundred rds per range visit.
im just getting my ak broke in at about 550rds now

 

[1858remington]

A good bit of older military rifles had slightly larger chambers so that the gun would be less prone to jam due to build up fo fouling. I had a Remington rolling block in 43 spanish that was like this. After firing the rounds the brass was too large to be reloaded.

 

[trapper500]

TULA Damage

I am glad youre ok

 

[Slamfire]

My Brassey’s “Brassey’s Essential Guide to Military Small Arms, Design Principles and Operating Method, Author Allsp and Popelinsky, Brassey’s Inc, 1997” states the reason rear locking actions went out of favor was due to case breakage. This is an example of this as Lee Enfield rifles are very springy.

Lee Enfields are the only service rifle that I am aware of that requires case friction between the case and the chamber to function safely. The action is so weak and springy that the extra load (about 2000 lbs) from a slick case will either break the bolt or break the case. Currently the British National Rifle Association is warning shooters not to shoot their No 4 rifles in the rain! (The No 4 action is supposed to be the strong one )

National Rifle Association
Spring 2010 Volume LXXXIX Number 1

SAFETY NOTICE
ENFIELD NO 4 RIFLE CONVERSIONS TO 7.62MM

Owners of Enfield No 4 actioned rifles in any calibre are strongly advised
not to use them in wet weather or without removing all traces of oil from
action and chamber prior to shooting.

http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/general/journals.asp?site=NRA

Brass is the best case material around and American Military practice was to use quarter hard brass. That allowed a reasonable ductility and strength. Harder brass, and I am certain steel cases fit into that category, won’t stretch as far and will break.

It is a mistake to allow the case to carry load, it is a mistake to allow a case to stretch too much. If this was an unusual hot load, that Lee Enfield action simply stretched beyond the case material limits.

What is good is that the Lee Enfield vents gas well so the only injuries appear to be brass particles in the shooter’s wrist.

Yes, thank goodness it was not a small ring mauser, as there would have been a lot more parts flying around.

 

[WardenWolf]

Ouch. Well, I guess that's one reason not to rechamber a rifle. According to Wikipedia, .303 British has a maximum pressure of 49,000 PSI. 7.62x51 NATO has a standard pressure of 60,200 PSI! That's a massive increase in pressure when these rifles were rechambered. This means the converted .308 Enfields operate on much lower safety margins than those in the original .303.

Additionally, .308 Winchester is sometimes loaded hotter than 7.62 NATO. This further reduces the rifle's already poor safety margins. If anything you should have only been using military-spec ammo.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

3. To remove the metal, take a good sized potato, cut in half, place the cut open part on your injury where the metal fragments are. Leave it for about half bour or so, the potato will draw out the pieces of metal. You'll see them stuck on the potato lookin like glitter. Its an old metal workin trick, worked for my buddy darn well to get metal bits out of his EYE! Lol...

Very interesting technique. I wonder what would cause the steel to be attracted to the potato?

Actually, the steel isn't attracted to the potato. Apparently, spuds have the natural ability to draw from the body all sorts of foreign objects like wood and steel splinters, glass shards, poison, venom, and just about anything else you can think of. They are reported to heal burns, take care of acne, warts, insomnia, bags under your eyes, headaches, and MRSA.

Potato juice can cure cancer and stomach ulcers.

Or so these are some of the amazing claims of healing properties of the spud which is claimed to hold numerous healing nutrients.

Putting a slide of potato on your skin for an hour isn't going to do anything of consequence. Rubbing the potato slice over the surface of the sken reportedly can snag plinters and such.

Most of the potato claims are that it can draw things from the skin, which is really interesting. How does the pototato know what to draw out from the skin? Why doesn't this process result in hickies?

Depending on what you read and where, either the potato can just draw stuff out, or it is the starch in the potato that draws stuff out. Unlike the amazingly short treatment time noted above, most remedies have leaving the potato slice, poultice, or compress on the skin for an extended period of time, changing it out regularly until the problem is gone. Basically, it keeps the area moist. By keeping it moist, certain contaminants may come out as a result of osmotic reaction. Splinters and such apparently come out as a result of the skin being kept moist, softening the skin such that normal activities will allow the splinter to shift and so it moves toward the softer area (supposedly).

Note that bacon fact and a variety of fruits and vegetables have been claimed to do the exact same thing.

If a potato could draw out bits of steel under the skin's surface in 30 minutes as claimed, then using a couple rare earth magnets should do wonders, right?

 

[Rshooter]

Ouch. Well, I guess that's one reason not to rechamber a rifle. According to Wikipedia, .303 British has a maximum pressure of 49,000 PSI. 7.62x51 NATO has a standard pressure of 60,200 PSI! That's a massive increase in pressure when these rifles were rechambered. This means the converted .308 Enfields operate on much lower safety margins than those in the original .303.

Actually these rifles were made at the factory for .308 ammunition by the Indian Ishapore arsenal. They are not rechambered per sea but built for the .308 round.

 

[sturmgewehr]

I'm glad you're not seriously hurt.

 

[dom1104]

I think the solution to this problem, is not a potato......

but shooting the ammunition those old relic guns were designed around.

 

[RevGeo]

The problem may well have been with the rifle, but the OP reported a louder muzzle blast and a noticable increase in recoil. Sounds like a hot round to me.
The rifle would have to have an incredible headspace problem to have a case separation result in that kind of damage.

I'd get into the doctor just to have the paper trail in case of further negative developments.

 

[wingman]

I don't know the reason for your kaboom but I have never and will not use steel cased ammo others do and that is fine but I will stick with brass.

 

[Jeff F]

The problem may well have been with the rifle, but the OP reported a louder muzzle blast and a noticable increase in recoil. Sounds like a hot round to me.
The rifle would have to have an incredible headspace problem to have a case separation result in that kind of damage.

I'd get into the doctor just to have the paper trail in case of further negative developments.

What damage, I don't see that much damage. He had a case head separation and his rifle handled it just like it was designed. I have had the same thing happen a couple times shooting my No 4 in .303 before I learned about only neck sizing my fired brass. My forearm and wrist looked about the same as the OP's.

 

[jerkface11]

The problem may well have been with the rifle, but the OP reported a louder muzzle blast and a noticable increase in recoil.

I doubt it's easy to be objective about felt recoil and muzzle blast when the gun is blowing up in your face.

 

[Jeff F]

I doubt it's easy to be objective about felt recoil and muzzle blast when the gun is blowing up in your face.

Yea, I didn't go there but thats my feeling also.