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What Are Your Thoughts On Safety-less Guns?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Phriend, Oct 20, 2009.

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  1. Phriend

    Phriend Member

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    I've been looking for a subcompact pistol, and to my surprise, many of them do not seem to have an external safety on them. (Specifically, I've been looking at the Kahr PM-9).

    What are your thoughts on these kinds of firearms? While I am new to the world of firearms, it seems that all the training in the world could not prevent me from accidentally striking the trigger one day. Your thoughts?
     
  2. eight433

    eight433 Member

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    on my kel tec pf9, i can assure you, you will have to do MUCH more than "strike" the trigger. Especially if you have it in a holster with a trigger guard cover. I cannot speak for the Kahr.
     
  3. kludge

    kludge Member

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    I would not carry a gun with a safety. Personal preference.

    This has been the norm for carry guns designed in the last, oh, twenty years.

    You are correct. You have to keep your finger off the trigger all by yourself.

    It is very natural to pick up a gun and put your finger off the trigger. You must form a habit, so that you never pick up a gun with your finger on the trigger.

    Always keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard until your sights are on the target and you have made the decision to fire.
     
  4. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Kahrs have very long DA trigger pulls. If you combine your pistol with a well-designed holster that covers the trigger, you shouldn't have any problems with safely carrying a pistol.
     
  5. One-Time

    One-Time Member

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    Though I carry a 1911 w/ its plethora of safety features, I carried a .357 for years w/ no safety and never had issue

    As long as the 4 rules are followed its a non issue
     
  6. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    I don't understand all the obsessing over safeties, when revolvers have never had them. I fully understand "cocked and locked", and carry a 1911 that way, but most of the more modern designs take a considerable trigger pull to fire them, so as long as you keep your finger off the trigger, and use a well made holster, there isn't any more need for an external safety than for a revolver.

    My main carry handguns are Springfield XD's, which don't have a manual safety, per se. They do have the USA trigger, and grip safety, which I feel are good things, but I'm perfectly comfortable with carrying them without a manual safety. But then, I've been carrying a handgun for the last 39 years, and 26 of those I carried one for a living, and was rangemaster for our department for almost 3 years, with 600 sworn and 300 reserve officers.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  7. Crow61

    Crow61 Member

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    A safety is something else to worry about in a stressful situation. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are on target and ready to fire. :)
     
  8. highorder

    highorder Member

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    Yep. The most important safety really is between your ears.
     
  9. One-Time

    One-Time Member

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    I think its a result of nannystateism and all that other 'safety' BS thats been pushed since Liberals gained control of things
     
  10. BlayGlock

    BlayGlock Member

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    I carried a Kahr CW9 for a while and never has a problem. I carry a j frame a lot, which also has no saftey. If you use a good holster the double action trigger is plenty of "saftey" imo.
     
  11. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    Any modern pistol being sold has several safty features. It may not have a manual safety but there are safeties present to prevent accidental discharge.

    Unfortunately people think that if they can engage a manual safety they can then "safely" handle a gun negligently and do things like place their finger on the trigger and point the gun at things they don't want to shoot or kill. There's probalby been thousands of people killed when they or someone else thought the safety made the gun "safe".
     
  12. jocko

    jocko Member

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    Steve C, says it all. I could not add anything more positive than what he stated...
     
  13. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Steve C hit my main point

    I loved watch pistol fires when I was in the army, esp. when they started mixing things up and doing the "advanced" pistol fires (you get do get board when you're stuck at the range all day and the ammo is free) When ever a draw / fire iteration came up half the line didn't go boom, same thing between sets when the pistol was laid at the firing point locked open and on safe.

    My point is that if this was happening on the range, how much worse would forgetting to drop the safety be in real life.
     
  14. wilkersk

    wilkersk Member

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    The PM-9 comes in 4 flavors: w/external safties and without, Bi-tone or black.

    The PM-91xx series has the external safety. Problem solved!

    All PM-9s have a firing pin block, and are DAO, I think that means you've gotta pull the trigger to make it go boom; it won't AD when dropped.
     
  15. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    There are two kinds of safeties – manual and mechanical.

    A manual safety is one that the gun’s user has to activate (put on) or deactivate (take off) by consciously moving a lever or switch, pushing a button, or depressing a bar on the grip. It is “on” when it’s put that way, and it’s “off” when the user moves it. One weakness of manual safeties is that under stress someone can forget which position it’s in.

    A mechanical safety is one that is operated by the firearm’s own mechanism or lockwork, and is always “on” until the trigger is deliberately pulled and held while the hammer or striker falls. The user has no direct involvement in its use.

    All Colt double-action revolvers have had (2) mechanical safeties since 1908.

    All Smith & Wesson revolvers made after World War Two have (2) positive mechanical safeties.

    Since the middle 1980’s all Taurus revolvers have at least (1) mechanical safety.

    All Ruger double-action revolvers have a mechanical safety and most of they’re single-action models have had the same kind since 1972.

    Many people believe that because current revolvers from the above makers don’t have some kind of lever or button to push the have NO safety. Not so.
     
  16. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    I absolutely loathe manual safeties. I'm a big fan of mechanical safeties that prevent the gun from being fired except by a direct trigger pull, but I find manual safeties to be rather pointless.
     
  17. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    None of my defensive pistols have a manual external safety on them. My safety is the long double action trigger, a decent holster, followed by proper gun handling etiquette. It has gotten me by thus far.

    You know yourself best, and if you really feel this way, I would recommend you do not own or handle any guns. If you lack the self control and discipline required as to not pull the trigger without intention, try some other forms of self defense.



    ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Three kinds of safeties.

    Mechanical, manual, and between the ears. The latter being the most important.

    The mechanical safeties are good things for the most part. I like manual safeties on autos, but don't obsess over them. I certainly don't want one on a revolver. The safety between my ears should always be on. :cool:
     
  19. Billy Shears

    Billy Shears Member

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    I personally like a single-action auto with a frame mounted manual safety. I must strongly disagree with the assertion that some people make that "it's just one more thing to worry about." If you practice as much as you should, it it most emphatically not something you will have to worry about; it's operation will be automatic, and take place without any conscious thought whatever. You practice your draw and presentation enough times to incorporate this in your muscle memory. Then you will carry it out automatically, every time.

    And the advantage to having a manual safety, especially for law enforcement, is that if a bad guy get's your gun away from you, he may not be able to dope out where the safety is right away, and that may give you vital extra seconds either to regain control of your weapon, or better still, deploy a back up.

    But having said that, I have carried, and currently carry (on duty) guns with no manual safety, and done so with complete confidence.
     
  20. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    I fully agree that it is the safety between your ears that counts but when I first started carrying I was not so sure. I carried my Glock for about a month while waiting for my permit to arrive with the trigger set but no round in the chamber. I did this when doing heavy work around the house and while hiking and playing with the dog. I now feel very secure that if through everything I did the trigger was not pulled then it will not be. You just need trigger discipline when not in a holster and don't play with your gun.
     
  21. daveit

    daveit Member

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    Got an XD 9 and a Glock with a round always in the chamber....doesn't matter what safety stuff they have on them. Keep you finger off the trigger and use your brain & you'll be fine.

    I'm not a cop & I carry concealed (usually--in a Serpa when OC) so I'm not too worried about a BG grabbing my gun.
     
  22. possum

    possum Member

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    does a revolver have a safety? nope, then why do i need one on my auto loader.

    i am not a fan of manula safeties either. i shoot striker fired handguns, xd's and glocks.
     
  23. gbran

    gbran Member

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    Been carrying these for years without safeties. I like my pistols to be like my revolvers. Point and click.

    100_0145.jpg
     
  24. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    Safety less guns are my prefered carry configuration. I have in the past carried a gun with a safety, but never use it.
     
  25. okespe04

    okespe04 Member

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    I don't like safetys. The trigger is the saftey
     
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