What Are Your Thoughts On Safety-less Guns?

[weisse52]

You must form a habit, so that you never pick up a gun with your finger on the trigger.

I use this quote only as example. I have carried a 1911 for years, I have long since "formed the habit" to swipe off that manual saftey. I never even think about it. I even found myself swiping at a non-existence saftey when I shot Glocks.
Glocks have one form of a saftey, 1911's have others. As has been stated they all require you to keep your finger off the trigger. YOU are the ultimate saftey.

 

[gc70]

If you lack the self control and discipline required as to not pull the trigger without intention, try some other forms of self defense.

Sage advice for the multitudes who experience accidental discharges.

 

[AJAX22]

I don't carry chambered.... never have... never will... I just rack as I draw.

If there is no bullet in the pipe, there is no need for mechanical safety.

Im a big fan of guns being as unsafe as possible.... I don't like the idea of people doing stupid things with only a small mechanical device preventing their actions from having negative consequences...

It is the operators responsibility to make sure the inanimate object is used in a 'safe' manner.

Relying on anything else simply lessens the degree to which the operator is expected to think, and the degree of responsibility they have for their own actions.

 

[mljdeckard]

I think that some people WAYYYY overthink this stuff.

Some people say that switching between an auto with a positive, slide-mounted safety to one with a conventional frame-mounted safety (or vise-versa) will confuse you in the heat of battle. You will inevitably lock up and get yourself killed. Some say that autos with safeties have no place at all in modern handguns, that the process of remembering to flick it off safe will take up too much brain power and get you killed, so it's better to have one with no manual safety at all.

I SAY, pick the gun you shoot best, learn to shoot it, and don't worry about it. I can pick up the bulk of the guns in this world, IN THE DARK, and know immediately by feel or with a quick check, what kind of safety it has and whether or not it is engaged. If you aren't as much of a geek as I am, with that kind of free brain space, pick a gun, learn it, and free your mind of 'what-ifs'.

 

[BluesDancer]

I'm not a fan of safeties, myself. I keep my trigger finger off the trigger until I am ready to fire, and that's good enough for me. Exactly what gbran says - point and click.

 

[kludge]

I don't carry chambered.... never have... never will... I just rack as I draw.

What will you do if you don't have the use of your other hand?

 

[nalioth]

Every piece of dangerous machinery in the world has a safety.



It is up to you to use it.​

 

[cleetus03]

What will you do if you don't have the use of your other hand?

With one hand you could;

Rack
Rotate the pistol so the rear sight can be hooked on the top of the cartridge belt or any other surface (e.g., the edge of a table, wall,heel of the boot) that provides the resistance needed to rack the slide in a smooth, uninterrupted motion. Do not let the muzzle of the pistol cover the body.See figures 8-9 and 8-10. http://www.pointshooting.com/marine.pdf

 

[DeepSouth]

I've been looking for a subcompact pistol, and to my surprise, many of them do not seem to have an external safety on them. (Specifically, I've been looking at the Kahr PM-9).

What are your thoughts on these kinds of firearms? While I am new to the world of firearms, it seems that all the training in the world could not prevent me from accidentally striking the trigger one day. Your thoughts?

If you really want a KAHR PM9 with an external safety they DO make one.

Personally I'd advise you to get the one with no external safety and learn to keep your finger off the trigger. The trigger pull weight on most KAHR's is between 7.5 and 9 lbs. Buy a holster that covers the trigger and your odds of the trigger "hanging" on something are nearly nonexistent.

I carry a KAHR PM45 everyday and the fact that it has no manual safety slightly bothered me at first, It was my first auto without a manual safety and I had never carried a revolver, now I'd have it no other way.

On a side note, most people that buy the sub compact guns carry them in their pocket, if you intend to pocket carry do so in a pocket holster, with nothing else in that pocket.

 

[cleetus03]

I think the OP boils down to what platform each of us learns on and is confident with the most.

For me it's a pistol with a manual lever safety that can be thumb flicked with acquired muscle memory reflex as I draw the weapon to use. If you can learn to do this great, if you can't or are unwilling that's great to..............TO EACH HIS OWN

 

[DeepSouth]

Ajax22

Im a big fan of guns being as unsafe as possible.... I don't like the idea of people doing stupid things with only a small mechanical device preventing their actions from having negative consequences...

You should rephrase so the rest of us can agree with what your saying.

 

[aquapong]

 

[mljdeckard]

One-handed slide-racking is an emergency technique. Everyone should know how to do it with both hands, but it isn't something you WANT to do if you don't HAVE to. Try doing it when your other arm is being held behind your back.

Carrying with an empty chamber, and saying you can rack it one-handed when you need to is assuming a LOT of conditions that may not exist when you are fighting for your life. It's like saying you will have time to push a button to arm your airbag before a collision.

 

[ReloaderFred]

There are two kinds of safeties – manual and mechanical.

Old Fuff,

I think anyone vaguely familiar with revolvers is fully aware of the passive safeties built into them. The OP's question concerned external safeties, and that is what I was refering to.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[jocko]

deepsouth, says it all . if ur gonna pocket carry, then indeed holster pocket carry. I carry my kahr PM9 24/7 in jeans front pocket in a desantis and never even give it a thought about being unsafe...

 

[gc70]

Carrying with an empty chamber, and saying you can rack it one-handed when you need to is assuming a LOT of conditions that may not exist when you are fighting for your life.

One hand being unavailable is one of the classic rationales for carrying with a round in the chamber. But it also begs the question of your gun hand being disabled or both hands being occupied.

 

[mljdeckard]

If you are carrying to protect yourself, you can't compromise your hands. You can't carry anything you aren't willing to drop if you need to draw. If you survive, you can get more Jamba Juice.

You must learn to draw, fire, reload, and clear a stoppage with EITHER hand. This is not something that's nice to know, it's critical.

I don't know how you can refer to the possibility of one hand being unavailable as a 'rationale'. The REALITY is, if you are in a situation where you are fighting for your life, it means everything else has already gone wrong. Your wise lifestyle has failed to keep you out of trouble. You cannot assume that you will not be using your other hand to drive, carry a child, stop bleeding, hold back an attacker, or stop yourself from being pushed. If you agree that you carry to protect your life, but you don't believe that multiple things can go wrong at once, you haven't really thought this through.

 

[DougDubya]

Oh good - the thread goes from folks too fumblebrained to know how to flick a lever to the whole Condition 3 Israeli method garbage.

I'm also quite certain that Colonel Jeff Cooper was enforcing the nanny state when he taught his students how to carry a 1911 with its safety on. I mean, he was such a hand-wringing liberal, wasn't he?

 

[zignal_zero]

While I am new to the world of firearms, it seems that all the training in the world could not prevent me from accidentally striking the trigger one day.

no offense, but this is very dangerous logic. this statement says - you realize an ND is inevitable w/o a mechanical device that removes the buden of proper handling from you.

i'm really not tryin to be a dik, but you've got to take the repsonibility of preventing an ND, yourself, and not expect a safety device to do it for you.

that said - manual safeties are a preference, some people like 'em some don't. personally, i'm either way. i'll go from DAO to 1911 and back.

one good point to a manual safety is that it might be you the fraction of a second you need should someone disarm you and have difficulty shooting you with your own gun.

 

[gc70]

I don't know how you can refer to the possibility of one hand being unavailable as a 'rationale'.

It is pretty easy - I know what the word 'rationale' means, as in:

"One hand being unavailable is one of the classic fundamental reasons for carrying with a round in the chamber."

"One hand being unavailable is one of the classic underlying reasons for carrying with a round in the chamber."​

 

[Old Fuff]

ReloaderFred:

I think anyone vaguely familiar with revolvers is fully aware of the passive safeties built into them.

You might be surprised at the number of people that carry post-1945 double-action/hand ejector revolvers with the hammer down on an empty chamber, "because revolvers don't have a safety..."

Add to that the number of folks that believe that any pistol that doesn't have a manual safety doesn't have one at all.

Hopefully I enlightened somebody... :banghead:

 

[oneounceload]

As mentioned - the safety is between your ears....I don't want them on my handguns, my shotguns, or my rifles - no need

 

[johnnylaw53]

All pistols have a safty, it the grey matter between your ears, some just have others attached to the weapon but none work as well as the first.

be safe

 

[evan price]

An external safety is a crutch. Guns with short trigger pulls (like SA 1911) need it. A gun like Glock or a Sig "P"-series does not.

Point and shoot. No safety required. Don't put booger flicker on bang switch unless you want a shot fired.

 

[mountainpharm]

I'm a lefty so my preference is either no safety at all (Walther P99) or a safety that is engaged by gripping the butt or pulling the trigger (Glock 36, Springfield XD).