What Do You Look For In A Hollow Point?

[Buzz9mm]

I have noticed that quite a bit of hollow points have jacket separation and fragmentation. People still seem to love them and aren't worried though. So is it bad for hollow points to come apart? Here's a good example of what I'm talking about:


Bad: 9mm 147gr Hydra-Shoks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kehulz8w46Q


Good: 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rwdmWNMIKE


So what do you guys think? What do you look for in a hollow point?

 

[NG VI]

Well Hydra-shocks are an older design, personally I look for a bullet that expands extremely reliably, penetrates enough, and expands wide as well.

So it's HST and Ranger-T (new stuff) for me, though their are other bullets that are fine for carry that I have and would gladly use. Just HST and Ranger-T are the best of the bunch.

HST especially can even outperform bonded bullets through some barriers. Wild.

 

[9mmepiphany]

While maybe not exactly comparing apples and oranges, I'll point out a few things that are obvious:

1. the Hydra-Shoks are not cutting edge technology and have been replaced by the Federal HST bullet design.
2. the Gold Dots use a Bonded-Core bullet and can't separate
3. you are comparing two very different bullet weights. The 147gr is at the upper limit for the 9mm, while the 124gr is the original design weight.

I personally won't carry anything heavier than 135grs. I've carried the Winchester Ranger 127gr for many years and plan on replacing it with 124gr Gold Dot when I run out...the replacement was based solely on price

 

[NG VI]

I wish there were more hot-loaded 135-140 grain 9mm bullets available.

 

[RedAlert]

Most likely all premium hollow point SD ammo will perform well.

So my first criteria is to make sure it reliably feeds in my SD weapon.
Acceptable accuracy is next.

Then I pick the one that best suits my two criteria above. I don't get hung up on brand.

 

[Steve C]

New technology doesn't necessarily translate into different results. A bullet that retains it jacket may be no more effective than one that sheds its jacket. As long as the core expands to similar diameter they both make similar holes in the recipient except a shed jacket may diverge from the tack causing additional damage.

Some of the most effective ammunition there is, notably the 125gr JHP .357 mag is well known to fragment at the tip spreading multiple flakes of lead through the target causing secondary damage while the base continues with deep penetration. That is what makes the round an effective man stopper and so lethal.

While bonded and improved bullets are the latest thing to hit the market I seriously doubt they'll prove to be significantly more effective than proven earlier designs. The Hydra-shok hasn't been replaced by the HST as its still a cataloged item for law enforcement from ATK.

 

[NG VI]

A bullet that retains it jacket may be no more effective than one that sheds its jacket. As long as the core expands to similar diameter they both make similar holes in the recipient except a shed jacket may diverge from the tack causing additional damage.

But the newer bullets, on top of retaining their jackets better, also expand much more dependably and are significantly less reliant on high velocity and less affected by clothing than the older designs. And they tend to expand more while still getting adequate or better penetration. The newer designs don't do anything radically different, they just do the same things better in every way than the older ones.

The Hydra-shok hasn't been replaced by the HST as its still a cataloged item for law enforcement from ATK.

You're right, the Hydra-Shock was replaced by the Hi-Shock. It's most likely still catalogued because ATK knows that people will often buy the bullet they have heard of for years, and also, why not, they've already paid for all the machinery to make them, why not keep putting them out until people stop buying them?

The .357 formula does still work, but there are better options for the rest of the service calibers, especially those that can't push a middle-weight bullet at 1400 feet per second or faster. And the other options are also more reliable than the .357 formula.

 

[2wheels]

I prefer bonded, but it's not a deal breaker. Reliability is my number one concern, it doesn't matter if you've got the latest heat seeking rocket propelled hollowpoint if it won't reliably feed in your gun.

That means unlike some people I've known, I run a MINIMUM of 100 rounds of my chosen carry ammo (And 50-100 of an alternate) through my gun before carrying it. If I have zero failures, we're good to go.

I like name brand premium hollowpoints in a heavy for caliber weight. That's 230 grains in my .45, and 147 grains in my 9mm. When I owned a .40, it was always 180 grains.

 

[verge]

Check out the information at Firearms Tectical.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tactical.htm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/afte.htm

Excerpt;

Mr. Larry Fletcher, of the Dallas County Institute of Forensic Sciences (formerly the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences), feels that Chapter 5 misrepresents his organization’s findings. He emphatically disagrees with Marshall’s and Sanow’s recommendation of lightweight, high-velocity projectiles such as the 9mm 115gr and 115gr +P+ JHP, .357 Magnum 110gr and 125gr JHP bullets, and .45 ACP 185gr +P JHP bullets. The Dallas County Institute of Forensic Sciences finds the overexpansion and excessive fragmentation exhibited by these bullets results in stretch and crush cavities at too shallow a depth. Mr. Fletcher strongly emphasizes that all of these loads offer inadequate performance for law enforcement use since they exhibit insufficient penetration to consistently reach the major organs and blood vessels in the torso, especially from the transverse and oblique angles commonly encountered in law enforcement shootings. The Dallas County Institute of Forensic Sciences recommends cartridges which offer reasonable penetration and reliable expansion without fragmentation, such as the 9mm 147gr JHP, .40 S&W 180gr JHP, and .45 ACP 230gr JHP.

 

[kmbrman]

The best way to test your carry load is to fire it into a line of at least 4 or 5 1-gallon water jugs , While not as professional as gelatin tests done by the Pros, it will tell you about expansion and penetration . Bonded bullets like Speer Gold Dots or Rem. Golden Sabres will expand in water, and don't loose their jackets . Also you can refute the, know it alls, that were saying that 147 Gr. loads are too slow out of short barrelled pistols such as the Glock 26 and won't expand or penetrate enough .You'll be surprized at the loads that perform and other touted loads with lots of hype that wont ! Testing on your own will show the good loads and steer you away from the poor ones ! for instance the Gold Dot 147 JHP in 9mm, penetrates just as well and makes a great expanded bullet of about .50 cal., in spite of the folks who say it's too slow and you should stick to the lighter loads such as 115 to 124 gr.hps !

 

[Buzz9mm]

Thanks for all of the replies guys. I was just a little concerned about getting hollow points that shredded, but like someone else said, that probably wouldn't be such a bad thing. So I guess the real question is whats better, a .50 caliber bullet with an exploding jacket or a .70 caliber bullet that stays together? Also, would a 124gr 9mm NATO be good for self defense? Better then a hollow point? I just want to have the best ammo that I can with a 9mm ...

 

[cwp3420]

FWIW, the best manstopper when I went into federal law enforcement was the .357 Mag. jacketet hollowpoint 125 gr. bullet. While in the Border Patrol, we used those with excellent results. We eventually went to the 9mm. 115 gr. +p+ bullet. During the time we carried those issued bullets, nationwide the Border Patrol reported excellent results with that load. It's a fact that the Border Patrol leads all other agencies nationwide in shootings every year, and many agencies buy ammo used by the BP if the ammo performs well. The BP now, from what a friend of mine in the BP tells me, is supposed to be going to a 135 gr. high velocity .40S&W bullet, probably the Winchester Ranger-T bullet. They have found that the 135 gr. bullet has less recoil that the 155 gr. bullet they had been using. Time will tell on how that design works out.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I look for a proven track record over a number of years in numerous fight stopping scenarios.

For 38, that leaves the 158 gr LHP +P. I dont really know what that leaves for 9mm.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

My first priority is feed reliability in the firearm I will be using it in. All this talk of expansion, fragmentation or whatever is moot if the round is hung up on the feed ramp.

 

[golden]

I go with what I have found to work

In my 9m.m. handguns, I usually shoot 9m.m. HYDRO SHOK 124 grain jhp when I want a standard weight load. I found the HYDRO SHOK will shoot in almost all modern 9m.m. pistols and it is also very accurate.

That said, when I load my pistol up for self defense, I usually use a +P or +P+ load. When I was carrying a 9m.m. on duty, we had to buy our own gun, but use service issue loads.

At first, we used REMINGTON 9m.m. 115 grain jhp for practice and WINCHESTER +P+ 115 grain jhp for our duty load.
Later we went with FEDERAL and used 9m.m. 124 grain HYDRO SHOK as our practice load and 124 grain +P+ HYDRO SHOK for carry.
I never heard a singe complaint about either +P+ load, so I still carry them.
I use either FEDERAL 124 grain HST +P or HYDRO SHOK 124 grain +P+. I still have a lot of the HYDRO SHOK, so I still carry it. It worked well enough for my agency.

My agency then standardized on the 155 grain jhp .40 S&W caliber as a replacement for our .357 magnum revolvers and the REMINGTON 125 grain jhp. There were no complaints about either round.
The recoil on both was something you noticed. The large pistols we used, the BERETTA 96D Brigadier could absorb a lot of recoil, but it has become more of an issue with the H&K P2000 pistols we now use.
We recently dropped the GLOCK 17 for the officers who were still carrying it and transitioned over to a total H&K .40 caliber force. Before that, we switched to the .40 caliber 135 grain jhp to cut down on the recoil.
The H&K has a recoil buffer on the guide rod, but it can only do so much, which is why I think we went to the 135 grain load.
Fear of the 9m.m. carriers being able to transition to the .40 caliber has been a real concern.

Jim

 

[Buzz9mm]

I own a .40 caliber and I love it, but the recoil is excessive. I much prefer the low recoil and low cost of the 9mm. I have seen the 135gr for the .40 caliber, but I don't really like it. I think if you going to use a .40, you either do or you don't. I bet all of the LEOs would do much better with a 124gr +P. Its only 11 grains off of the .40 and it would probably be much cheaper for the agencies for practice and carry. It's taken me several months to be proficient with the .40 caliber after I switched from the 9mm. It's actually made me a much better shooter. Now when I do shoot my 9mm, its like a BB gun. I like the .40 because it challenges me. If you can get good with a .40, you can get good with almost everything.

 

[Husker_Fan]

I guess I'm just outdated. I carry 115 gr XTPs in 9mm. They are also relatively inexpensive and readily available to buy as a component for loading practice ammo.

 

[wow6599]

Feeding reliability...........
IMHO, Golden Sabers are the best for this.