10mm..: the new outdoorsman's choice.?

Status
Not open for further replies.
In a Glock 20 (not a Glock fan) there is a lot to say for it given capacity, reliability, durability, etc. Of all the Glocks, I like the 20 the best I think. However, 10mm has its limits so depends a lot on the person and use case. 10mm is not a 41 nor anything stronger, but you have many more 10mm in a Glock 20 than a 5 or 6 shot revolver.

I likely would not do the Glock 20 as I just don't care for it (have one and took a 300+lb hog with it). As I age I just want what I want and what appeals to me. 10mm is great and has its place, same for a Glock.
 
Armored farmer said:
Lol.
You are observant! No. I was running out of starter fertilizer when #1 son showed up to reload my tank....I whipped a u_turn and deadheaded back to the road for a refill.


Half mile throughs and autosteer gives me time to share my vast knowledge with you ijjits.

I ran it 42 hrs straight Wednesday and Thursday. Sandwiches and coffee.
View attachment 998890
Click to expand...

Guys, I will attest he can talk guns and keep an eye on the tractor, (well, combine, the time I was down there) as he toodles around the fields. That was fun, but I'd like to get down there sometime when you're not out in the field, and shoot a few clays. :thumbup:
 
Obturation said:
As far as 44 mag goes, my opinion will be pretty unpopular . it's obsolete. 454 casull revolvers are the exact same size, have larger case capacity, push heavier bullets faster and out perform 44 mag in every single way. Load mild to wild and never need to push the limits. Yes, 460 & 500 SW mag out perform the 454 but then you move up to a revolver that comes close to the weight of a rifle (which is always going to be better) and is less tolerable to do much walking with. That's kind of a touchy subject because SW doesn't make a 44 mag sized revolver in 454, I don't think the design can tolerate the pressure so SW guys stick with 44 mag. Modern designed revolvers like ruger & Taurus can take the pounding and do fine with it. One of many reasons that ruger is top of the heap, feel free to disagree.
Click to expand...
Obsolete??? It may have been supplanted as your personal favorite but it's a long, long way from obsolete. Literally or figuratively. The .454 is a great cartridge but it's a specialized hunting cartridge. It is still very limited in the available guns that chamber it and there's a whole slew of people who don't handload that want something in between the 14,000psi .45Colt and the 65,000psi .454. The .44Mag sits squarely in the middle and does a lot of what the .454 does. The .454's greater velocity extends its effective range perhaps 50yds but how many pistoleers are shooting critters at 150yds with a revolver? Not many. The .454's greater velocity does a little more tissue damage but in my opinion, does not allow one to take any bigger critters.

Not all the Rugers "take the pounding". The .454's lofty pressure requires a lot of a sixgun and the Super Blackhawk version will shoot loose. The Super Redhawk seems to fare better but not everyone wants a 7.5" Super Redhawk in their holster all day when a 629MG carries to much better. Or even a 4" Redhawk.

No, I would rather say that handloading the .44Mag or .45Colt makes a lot of what the .454 does irrelevant.
 
CraigC said:
Obsolete??? It may have been supplanted as your personal favorite but it's a long, long way from obsolete. Literally or figuratively. The .454 is a great cartridge but it's a specialized hunting cartridge. It is still very limited in the available guns that chamber it and there's a whole slew of people who don't handload that want something in between the 14,000psi .45Colt and the 65,000psi .454. The .44Mag sits squarely in the middle and does a lot of what the .454 does. The .454's greater velocity extends its effective range perhaps 50yds but how many pistoleers are shooting critters at 150yds with a revolver? Not many. The .454's greater velocity does a little more tissue damage but in my opinion, does not allow one to take any bigger critters.

Not all the Rugers "take the pounding". The .454's lofty pressure requires a lot of a sixgun and the Super Blackhawk version will shoot loose. The Super Redhawk seems to fare better but not everyone wants a 7.5" Super Redhawk in their holster all day when a 629MG carries to much better. Or even a 4" Redhawk.

No, I would rather say that handloading the .44Mag or .45Colt makes a lot of what the .454 does irrelevant.
Click to expand...

This. And this should be made into a sticky.
 
Regarding the .44 mag vs .454 Casull debate, I think so much depends on what you want from your guns.

Can a .454 be loaded down? Sure. But how many different loads with different POA/POI do you want for any particular gun? If that's not an issue and you do handload, then the .454 alone sounds like a great option.

For me, the only point to a .454 is to get a heavier bullet to go faster and smash charging grizzlies harder than my .44 can. So downloading the cartridge isn't worth my time. But then there's a question of recoil and shot to shot recovery. I can handle it with a .44 300gr @ 1200fps pretty well in the guns I have. How much practice I'd need to do the same with a .454 is hard to say. Plus, the gun would likely be heavier and/or carry one less in the cylinder. That's a hard one to weight up (pun not intended, but there it is anyway).

Until I aquire a .454 and work up a load that will do more, and that I can shoot about as well, I'll be holding on to my .44s. MaxP called the .44 Mag a "threshold" cartridge. He may well be right about that. Perhaps I and most others can't make the most of a .454.
 
CraigC said:
Obsolete??? It may have been supplanted as your personal favorite but it's a long, long way from obsolete. Literally or figuratively. The .454 is a great cartridge but it's a specialized hunting cartridge. It is still very limited in the available guns that chamber it and there's a whole slew of people who don't handload that want something in between the 14,000psi .45Colt and the 65,000psi .454. The .44Mag sits squarely in the middle and does a lot of what the .454 does. The .454's greater velocity extends its effective range perhaps 50yds but how many pistoleers are shooting critters at 150yds with a revolver? Not many. The .454's greater velocity does a little more tissue damage but in my opinion, does not allow one to take any bigger critters.

Not all the Rugers "take the pounding". The .454's lofty pressure requires a lot of a sixgun and the Super Blackhawk version will shoot loose. The Super Redhawk seems to fare better but not everyone wants a 7.5" Super Redhawk in their holster all day when a 629MG carries to much better. Or even a 4" Redhawk.

No, I would rather say that handloading the .44Mag or .45Colt makes a lot of what the .454 does irrelevant.
Click to expand...

@CraigC , I do acknowledge your superior experience and wisdom . maybe obsolete was a bit harsh . my general point was that everything a 44 mag or 45 colt can do , the 454 can do too. But obviously not the other way around. I don't bring 100 rounds of 65k psi loads to shoot at the range , like you said- not many people do. The ability is there if it's wanted though. Gives a margin of error when working with heavy 45 colt loads , which is how I ended up where I am now in the first place.
I did have a pair of 44 magnums but everything I wanted them for was better accommodated by the 454 with zero sacrifice . so yes, you're right- 44 magnum isn't obsolete but I don't see a point in choosing that chambering unless there is a specific gun someone wants that just happens to chambered for it.

I really appreciate your insight and presence here, I've enjoyed your articles and various writings for years . getting your input is humbling but I'll still maintain that better cartridges intended for the same use do exist.
 
CraigC said:
If you're primarily interested in handguns for defensive purposes, you're likely to choose a 10mm for the outdoors. You're also likely to never fire a shot outside the shooting range.

If you're primarily interested in handguns for other reasons such as hunting, you're likely to choose something else. You're also likely to shoot stuff with your revolvers all the time.

There's multiple reasons why I don't choose the 10mm as a primary sidearm in the wilderness. They have nothing to do with my age or level of Fuddery. I'm no stranger to "newfangled" semi-autos with high capacity magazines. However, unless you are going into battle, magazine capacity is a false god worshiped by too many. It's simply a non-issue 99.9999% of the time. Diehard 10mm fans will argue this but preference and need are rarely the same. Accuracy is another reason. Virtually any good revolver will be capable of 1" groups at 25yds. Service autos are usually going to be at least two if not three times that. Fine for something you're just going to carry but if you depend on your sidearm for camp meat or shooting at yonder rock 200yds away, it matters. The sights contribute to this as well. Service autos with coarse sights are not conducive to fine shooting when compared to the fine target sights of many revolvers. The trigger is another reason. Unless it's a 1911, a service auto's trigger is going to suck. Yes, I'm aware of 3.5lb Glock trigger connectors, I shot them for 15yrs. A Glock trigger will never hold a candle to the 2-3lb crisp single action trigger pull of a revolver. Weight. This is often touted as a feather in the polymer auto's hat but people seem to look at unloaded weights alone. Yes, an empty Glock is very light but as soon as you load the damned thing, you're equal to a 4" revolver or 5" 1911. Ironically enough, many of the same reasons why I do not choose a 10mm are the same reasons why I don't choose a .357Mag revolver either. A .44 or .45 with a 250gr cast bullet at 800-1000fps will handle 99.99% of what needs doing and do so without making your ears bleed. A serious limitation of semi-autos is their inability to handle reduced loads. The revolver does't care. At the upper end of terminal effectiveness, magazine capacity does not make up for the fact that the 10mm is at best a deer cartridge. The very best of 10mm loads are equivalent to the Keith .44Spl load, albeit with a smaller bullet with a disproportionately smaller meplat. Having 16rds does not make up for a lack of bullet mass and you can't miss fast enough to win a bear fight. When it comes to large, scary beasts, there's no replacement for displacement and appropriate cartridges for such tasks BEGIN with the .44Mag.
Click to expand...
Well Said...Thank You...
 
Obturation said:
my general point was that everything a 44 mag or 45 colt can do , the 454 can do too.
Click to expand...
Well, sort of. I can name the number of handguns chambering the .454 on one hand. The FA 83, Ruger Super Redhawk, Ruger Super Blackhawk (Bisley), MRI BFR and the Taurus Raging Bull. That's it. Also worth nothing that only the Super Redhawk is a regular catalog item for Ruger and only with a 2.75" or 7.5" barrel. That's not much selection and they are ALL stainless steel. That right there cuts quite a few buyers. I know that I've probably bought my last stainless steel handgun if I can avoid it. None of them are what I'd call a "packin' pistol" but I don't really want to be shooting 50-65,000psi loads out of one anyway. For hunting guns, you can probably find what you want within that limited selection. I'm going to provide some examples of what the .44Mag can do that the .454 can't. Before I get started and anyone starts thinking I'm bagging on the .454, I own three of them, including an FA 83 with $1000 worth of grip work. However, I could very easily live the rest of my life without them and hunt everything I want to hunt, from here to the Zambezi.

It can't be found in a $600 Bisley Vaquero with a blued finish. I can sling a 355gr at 1100fps out of this thing. Where is the .454 equivalent? Even if it existed, what is the .454 going to do that it can't?

IMG_9896b.jpg

It can't be found in an Old Model Super Blackhawk.

IMG_9211b.jpg

It can't be found in your basic run of the mill Bisley. For about the cost of a BFR, I had this $400 Bisley tuned, gussied up and restocked.

IMG_0177b.jpg

It can't be found in the Bisley Hunter, the best solution if you want to scope a Ruger single action.

IMG_7806b.jpg

It sure as hell won't be found in the svelte Uberti Callahan, which is barely heavier than an SAA. Perfectly fine for standard type .44 loads, though the cylinder is too short for much over 300gr.

IMG_9291b.jpg

If you like N-frames like the imminently packable Mountain Gun, you'll have to make do with the .44Mag. There are no 40oz DA .454's and who would want to shoot one anyway?

IMG_5419b.jpg

Somehow I don't think a black oxide Raging Hunter is going to have the same appeal as a model 29. If a 250gr at 1200fps is all I need, what's the point of a .454 anyway?

IMG_3219b.jpg
 
10 mm seems so "in between" to me, but I am old school, never cared much for plastics or metric stuff, although I once used a 12mm socket to loosen a 7/16 stripped bolt,
I like to reload 38, 44, 45, in all the variations, same with rifles, although I prefer to stick around 30 in rifles, I have always wanted a 45-70 ...and still don't have one, here we go again, now I'm on the hunt for another rifle :cuss: where was I? Oh yea... 10 mm just sounds so foreign, kinda like having Tea instead of Coffee
Dirty Harry didn't carry a 10mm
 
Last edited:
I've long been fascinated by the original 10mm, the .38-40. I've got another on the way as we speak. I've also threatened to have a custom mid-frame Ruger built as a convertible with the old WCF and a reincarnation of the .401PowerMag. Basically a .40 caliber version of the .41Mag. Only thing that keeps me from following through it is the lack of good commercial cast bullets 220gr and heavier.
 
I think it is difficult to come to a consensus because we live in such vastly different places and everyone has different needs. I have lived and hunted in North Texas my entire life. I have never seen a bear so I don't bother packing for one. I do love revolvers (if you don't like 45 Colt you're weird :p). However, one of my duty pistols is a Glock 20 and I am perfectly capable of engaging bad guys, deer and hogs with it. I'm qualified on the Glock so if something happens and I'm forced to fight a bandit or two I'll be covered by my agency. On March 20th of this year I arrested three poachers and it was nice having that Glock since help is literally an hour away. But man, I do love revolvers...
 
The Glockodile said:
Curious...

Most folks mention the Glock 20, but not my favorite - the 40 MOS - as a "Woods Pistol."

Too long?
Click to expand...

The Glock 40 MOS was mentioned by me, its my favorite. It tames all hot 10mm loads with a heavier recoil spring, I can shoot it all day long. Mines sporting a Holosun and backup suppressor height sights for lower 1/3 cowitness. I replaced the barrel with a threaded Lone Wolf barrel which practically speaking eliminates any bulge.

I think the length is perfectly fine for a do-all woods gun, or any pistol hunting needs.
 
Last edited:
BreechFace said:
It tames all hot 10mm loads with a heavier recoil spring, I can shoot it all day long...

...I think the length is perfectly fine for a do-all woods gun, or any pistol hunting needs.
Click to expand...

Me too!

All that energy wasted in muzzle blast / flip actually gets spent driving the bullet at a faster whooosh!
 
CraigC said:
Yes, an empty Glock is very light but as soon as you load the damned thing, you're equal to a 4" revolver or 5" 1911.
Click to expand...

There's no law requiring anyone to fill a magazine to the hilt. If weight's a concern and you're carrying a pistol having a high capacity magazine, just load it with five or six cartridges (or one or two :)).
 
CraigC said:
No but magazine capacity is ALWAYS touted as a feather in the 10mm's cap. The folks squawking about weight never stipulate that they're only loading a handful of rounds. In fact, I'd wager that would never occur to them.
Click to expand...
“Well Razor Dobbs”…..Just kidding.

We both know that a 10 is not a 41, a 44, or anything more than that. Cartridge to cartridge. there is no comparison.

But I think that magazine capacity should be a factor. Of course we would all like to be able to hit our target on the first shot. And in a hunting scenario, that should absolutely be the case. But life throws us lemons sometimes. And sometimes those lemons are nasty. I can miss with a 44, 454, 460, 480, and 500. And I can miss with a 10mm. The difference is, if I miss once with something like a G20 or G40, I haven’t lost ~20% of my defensive capabilities like I have with my revolver. In an ideal world, neither of us would miss. And with your choice in handguns and cartridges, a hit for you would absolutely be an advantage, as far as damage done, based on penetration alone. I also concede that you, being primarily a handgun hunter, are at a great advantage over someone like me who is primarily a bow and rifle hunter. But a person can train with their Glock (or 1911) to be very proficient in a stressful situation. Which, if carrying a lesser cartridge like the 10mm, would be prudent. More chances to miss are also more chances to hit.

I suppose this also comes down to where we live. Is the 10mm a good woods gun for 45 of the 50 states? My opinion would be yes. Am I going fishing or hunting in Alaska and carrying that as my primary sidearm? Hell to the no. I might not be the sharpest knife in the Happy Meal, and maybe I’m a few fries short of a tool box. But I’m no dummy.

Now, for anyone besides Craig reading this, I do not have a G20 or G40. I carry a 1911 in 10mm and a Ruger Redhawk, both with handloads. And if you carry Glock and reload, you should buy a barrel with a fully supported chamber so you can actually get the full potential out of the 10mm cartridge. If you live where the truly big bears live, I’d carry something else. But I’m me and you’re you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
which one to buy 357 10mm 41mag or 44mag
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
Skylerbone
Skylerbone
Armored farmer
Outdoorsman holster.
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
4K
JeffG
JeffG
B
  • Locked
10mm Auto
2
Replies
35
Views
3K
raz-0
R
G
  • Locked
Many calibers, only one gun for each, which one?
Replies
17
Views
2K
BlkHawk73
B
P
  • Locked
Quantifiable Criteria for a "Woods" gun?
2 3 4 5
Replies
122
Views
13K
Vern Humphrey
V
Back
Top