Scout rifle for our current times

The scout rifle was maybe a good idea at the time.

I'll take a conventionally mounted scope, and detachable mags over a pistol scope and stripper clips.

If it's for battling other armed people though, I'll take an AR in a heart beat. I don't particularly love them, but they serve a purpose.

A 10/22, would make a great small game rifle, and a decent deterrent... it wouldn't be my first choice for a fighting rifle.

As I remember, Cooper intended the Scout to be a lightweight all-purpose rifle. Certainly .22 LR is a useful cartridge, but not for legally harvesting big game.

AR

Hard to beat the AR as the contemporary iteration of what Cooper was articulating, except for the 223/556 they are so prolifically chambered in. The increased punch of one chambered in 6.5 Grendel makes a significant improvement in my mind but doesn’t address concerns around ammunition affordability.

22rimfire is, in my opinion, not compatible with anything Cooper was going for…

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Fun scenarios to consider, but that's all they really are. Scenarios. At some point, you're going to be met with force that's well beyond what any hand fired weapon could deter so all you'd be doing is delaying the inevitable.

That said, I like scout rifles and I've owned a few. That forward mounted scope is very "freeing" for lack of a better term. The weight forward on the barrel also makes the muzzle jump less, which helps with felt recoil and being ready with your next shot. A bolt action scout rifle with a forward mounted 4x Weaver is a joy to shoot at the range. In the woods however, that scout scope isn't as handy. I lost a lot of critters in that tiny field of view and eventually went back to conventionally mounted scopes for actual hunting. But again, at the range - or if you want to play dress up and daydream about end of world scenarios - scout rifles are quite a bit of fun to shoot.

Scout rifles are about useless in low light conditions. A pistol scope mounted halfway down the gun is cumbersome and no good for fast shots. A conventional mounted scope is 100 times better for all situations.

The Happy Kaboomer said:

Scout rifles are about useless in low light conditions. A pistol scope mounted halfway down the gun is cumbersome and no good for fast shots. A conventional mounted scope is 100 times better for all situations.

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A forward mounted scope is one of the fastest on target of all. I've been using them for 30 years before red dots were a thing. For me a forward mounted scout scope is absolutely the fastest... like lightning. But I've been using them and perfecting my technique for a long time.

You could use a different, less expensive 30 caliber rather than .308, or any other sufficiently powerful caliber. I used my first scout scope on a Ruger Mini-30 (7.62x39). Ammo is expensive now, there's no getting around that for a while, but you can save some money going with something other than .308.

The Marlin lever gun in .30-30.

3C

The scout rifle was maybe a good idea at the time.

I'll take a conventionally mounted scope, and detachable mags over a pistol scope and stripper clips.

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Me too. And what Cooper called the perfect scout rifle evolved over the years. Coopers choice of stripper clips and forward mounted scopes were due to necessity based on the options he had at the time. He understood the limitations, but those were the best options he had . I'm convinced that if he were still alive today his perfect scout rifle would now have a low powered conventional scope and a DBM.

A conventional scope with 1X or 1.5X on the low end and 4X to 6X on the upper end does everything a scout scope or irons do and are just as fast on target as forward mounted scopes. If AR's were not an option for any reason I'd choose a bolt rifle set this way over any lever or pump action.

While an AR would be my 1st choice I think a 10/22 set up right would be more effective than a lot of folks think. And yes I have one. Not sure Stingers would be my ammo choice though. I'd want 40 gr FMJ to get max penetration.

Setting up a rimfire “scout” rifle is a fun thing to do, as I’ve done it myself in .22 WMR.

However, I wouldn’t consider a rimfire rifle to be much of a “New Cold War” gun.

My Rossi .357 lever action is set up as a scout rifle, seems to get on target fairly quickly.

No stripper clips, but can be replenished easily through the side port.

3Crows said:

The Marlin lever gun in .30-30.

3C

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Funny you bring up the 30-30 because the first "scout scope" was actually designed for the Winchester 94. Both Redfield and Leupold made forward scope mounts specifically for the Win-94 long before Cooper ever came up with his "scout rifle" concept. I know because my pre-64 Win 94 wears a vintage Leupold forward scope base, and in it sits a 2x long eye relief scope.

The Happy Kaboomer said:

Scout rifles are about useless in low light conditions. A pistol scope mounted halfway down the gun is cumbersome and no good for fast shots. A conventional mounted scope is 100 times better for all situations.

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Nothing is perfect, and the Scouts arent either, but they are great rifles when set up properly and you have a little experience with them.

The only downside I found to the forward-mounted scopes was low, over-the-shoulder from the rear lighting that sometimes messes with being able to see through the scope. Its also the exact same problem you can have when using aperture-type sights too.

Low light with the forward-mounted scope is still better than it is with apeture type sights, and if you use a lit reticule, you basically turn the "scope" into a red dot type sight, and its now better than most other things.

Having used both scopes and red dots on these types of rifles, I personally think the red dot is the better choice, especially if the distances are fairly close, say, 200 yards and under.

With the scope mounted forward, it leaves the action clear, is out of the way of handling, allows for stripper loading on bolt guns, and doesn't block your peripheral vision while shooting. Snapshots and reactive-type shooting are very fast and easy as well. A traditionally mounted scope can work if it doesn't have too much power, but you lose more than you gain as far as everything else.

Most of the guns I set up as Scouts were in 308, but I also tried a couple of Winchester Trappers in 44mag and 30-30.

I quickly figured out the lever guns are best left alone. Adding anything to them just takes away the handiness of them and they really arent all that great for this type of rifle. They are slow to load/reload, limited in ammo, and the mag tube, and gun for that matter, are just a bit fragile. The lever kind of works against you as you work the action as you shoot too.

If was going to be a bolt gun, and I wasnt going to use 308, Id probably go with something in striper-fed 5.56 or 7.62x39. Something on an old, straight bolt Mauser action would be my choice.

All that said, I no longer have a Scout of any type and a couple of my AR's have filled that niche, and I think do a better job. A 10.5" or 16" gun with either a good red dot or one of the low power AR type scopes are pretty hard to beat and just give you a lot more versatility.

The Happy Kaboomer said:

Scout rifles are about useless in low light conditions. A pistol scope mounted halfway down the gun is cumbersome and no good for fast shots. A conventional mounted scope is 100 times better for all situations.

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I have not found that to be true. Not using a pistol scope but a on purpose scout scope. They are fast on target and easy to use, esepcially at low power with both eyes open.

3C

Newtosavage said:

Funny you bring up the 30-30 because the first "scout scope" was actually designed for the Winchester 94. Both Redfield and Leupold made forward scope mounts specifically for the Win-94 long before Cooper ever came up with his "scout rifle" concept. I know because my pre-64 Win 94 wears a vintage Leupold forward scope base, and in it sits a 2x long eye relief scope.

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Thank you for mentioning this. I recalled seeing "old lever action rifles" (I didn't know what they were at the time - I was a kid) in my home town gun shop. I recall having argumemnts with Jeff Cooper fans about these saying his idea wasn't original, but I could never find proof until I discovered the Leupold Detacho mount for Winchester 94s. I saw these in the late '60's.

I would think a 10/22 with a low powered scout scope would be a great little all around plinker and small game getter. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "Scout Rifle" but perhaps a Scout Rimfire, maybe.

If the scout scope mount was fast and accurate we would see them in competition.
I find this interesting as COL Cooper developed early pistol competition to improve the use of pistols in combat.

Th Scout Rifle concept is an interesting one. I have a stainless Ruger GSR in .308, with an 18.5" barrel, a Leupold FX 2.5X scout scope a Rhodesian biothane sling from Andy's Leather. It's relatively light weight, short and handy. The scope is also lightweight and allows for easy snap shooting with both eyes open. It takes 5 round (actual 6 round) or 10 round magazines, and for me will group about 4" - 4.5" off a bench at 200 yards, which is where it's zeroed. The factory iron sights have remained installed and are roughly zeroed at 100 yards. The scope has quick detach rings. It's a solid, simple and this far reliable little rifle.

But it's not perfect. Low magnification and forward mounting of the scope means increased glare on the lens, and reduces ability for precision. It's chambered in .308 which isn't exactly cheap at around $1 a pop, or more. And it is only a bolt action after all. Still, in a more rural setting, it has a fairly wide range of applications.

But it sounds like we're not really talking about Scout rifles. We're talking about "practical" rifles that are cheap to feed. Right?